Student booted from school after refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance

Started by Aegis, Apr 24, 2008, 02:24 PM

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Aegis

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A public high school student's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance got her booted from class in Hamilton County until a lawyer explained that her actions are religious.

Eighteen-year-old Tyner Academy senior Quinesha Garrett was removed this week from daytime classes and ordered to night school, where the pledge is not recited.

After meeting with her lawyer, school administrators reversed themselves and a school district spokeswoman said Garrett was being allowed to return to daytime classes Wednesday.

Garrett told the Chattanooga Times Free Press that she is a devout Christian and believes she should not pledge her allegiance to anyone but God.

Clark said that once school administrators became aware of Garrett's reason, "they nullified the transfer."

Administrators declined comment.



In a rare display of backbone, a student was transferred to night school when she refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, but then administrators backed down after talking to her lawyer.

There was an active discussion of this issue on reddit: http://reddit.com/info/6gu5n/comments/
I was the only one who supported the decision to transfer her to night school.

I just didn't agree that this student was entitled to receive an education from the state while at the same time snubbing her nose at the government.  Her education is not an entitlement, it is a government benefit.  And one person can be said to be equally entitled to another, in the "if they're getting that then I should get that" kind of way, but not just entitled to an education like we're entitled to breathe the air.  It's a cost that the government spends taxes on to:
  1) serve the taxpayers' interest in educating the next crop of citizens who will have the skills to make the country strong
and
  2) have the basic foundation and knowledge of civics to be participants in our form of representative government. 

Contempt for the government kind of rules out them running for city council, for example.  And their contribution to the political process will be a drain.  Should a student refuse to go along with the program of becoming the type of individual that the taxpayers are paying for, then I think that the school administrators should have discretion to kick that student out.  I'm not saying we should all bow our heads like slaves to our government, mind you.  Only that we should be loyal to the Republic and to the principles of liberty and justice.  There's no good reason not to, because under the Constitution, if we have a bad administration, then there is a political process to replace it with a good one.  The pledge is "to the Republic for which [the flag] stands", not to any particular unpopular politician.

Honestly, as a taxpayer, if some high school student tells me he or she does not support the government and believes it should be overthrown and replaced by some other form of government (straight Democracy, Socialist Dictatorship, Communism, Totalitarianism) then I ask myself why I should be on the hook to spend a dime in government benefits for someone who just wants to use the fruit of those labors to take away the government that preserves my liberty? 

The Constitution didn't address this Pledge issue explicitly, but the Framers did make their feelings abundantly clear.  Does the Constitution say we should give convicted traitors a comfy chair and a copy of Spin Magazine?  No!  It says to execute them by hanging, no exceptions.  What did the Framers have to say about the idea of the social contract?  James Madison said that he didn't like the term "social contract" and preferred "social compact."  Specifically, he preferred the understanding that this wasn't something each person could choose whether to sign.  It was a compact that people become subject to simply by being within the territory controlled by the government.  i.e.  You are standing in St. Petersburg, therefore you are a de facto slave.  You are standing in Washington D.C., therefore you are free, but have a citizen's responsibilities and obligations.  etc.

The Gonzman

Because the student is often forced by both law and circumstance to be there.

A forced recitation is meaningless.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Mr. X


Because the student is often forced by both law and circumstance to be there.

A forced recitation is meaningless.


Exactly. Since the government has systematically removed all choices she must go to the government school so she didn't choose to be there.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Virtue

Actually I have to slighty disagree here.

Quote
I just didn't agree that this student was entitled to receive an education from the state while at the same time snubbing her nose at the government.  Her education is not an entitlement, it is a government benefit.


No its not an entitlement its a REQUIREMENT.......If you do not attend school the government will come arrest you and or take you away from the custody of your parents and put you in a state home. 

Now I do not agree with the choice to not recite the pledge......Yes I think mindless recitation is pointless.....but both of those items are irrelevant.....because I will defend the freedom of choice to do as your conscious convicts you,  until death.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

Aegis


Actually I have to slighty disagree here.

Quote
I just didn't agree that this student was entitled to receive an education from the state while at the same time snubbing her nose at the government.  Her education is not an entitlement, it is a government benefit.


No its not an entitlement its a REQUIREMENT.......If you do not attend school the government will come arrest you and or take you away from the custody of your parents and put you in a state home. 

Now I do not agree with the choice to not recite the pledge......Yes I think mindless recitation is pointless.....but both of those items are irrelevant.....because I will defend the freedom of choice to do as your conscious convicts you,  until death.


I guess that requirement varies state by state.  In Texas, you can homeschool your kids, or even unschool, which means teach them nothing, though I think that might be on the edge of the law.  And in this case the point is moot, because she was 18 and she wasn't expelled, she was transferred to night school.  If that hadn't been the case, then that underscores the problem with discipline in school in general.  If it's kiddie prison, and they can't leave for any reason, then it's an entitlement and not a privilege to attend, and you can't really threaten them with much anymore.

CaptDMO

...one nation, under God, indivisible.......

I call bllshit!
Just anther little girl that found "special" attention comes her way, without too much effort,  just by being difficult.

And school officials are mere cowering enablers.
Blame it on the parent(s). Most recently HERE and (crap, I can't find the whining teacher thread) Apparently that's the easy way found by ineffectual
education operatives.   

Mr. X

Homeschooling is quickly being destroyed by progressives. In california, for example they made it a lwa you have to have a teacher's certificate to teach a kid. So that pretty much blows homeschoolers out of the water. And who has the certificates... the state.

Also home schooling isn't a fair choice because a lot of states make you pay the taxes for school anyway even though you don't use the school. So a poorer parent can't afford to stay at home, homeschool and pay that tax so its a round about way of forcing someone to do something by essentially robbing them of all their choices.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Aegis


Homeschooling is quickly being destroyed by progressives. In california, for example they made it a lwa you have to have a teacher's certificate to teach a kid. So that pretty much blows homeschoolers out of the water. And who has the certificates... the state.

Also home schooling isn't a fair choice because a lot of states make you pay the taxes for school anyway even though you don't use the school. So a poorer parent can't afford to stay at home, homeschool and pay that tax so its a round about way of forcing someone to do something by essentially robbing them of all their choices.


Yes, and I think that this is a perfect example of the states abusing their power.  But I think that they abuse their power by making the use of their schools mandatory, not by insisting on a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.  It is reasonable for any state to insist that you pledge your allegiance to it in order to receive a taxpayer-provided benefit.  If refusing meant some form of sanction, then I would not agree with that.  If it just meant you didn't get some benefit until you learned to lose the chip, then I think that is appropriate.

Mr. X

Quote
If refusing meant some form of sanction, then I would not agree with that.  If it just meant you didn't get some benefit until you learned to lose the chip, then I think that is appropriate.


Refusing did mean some sort of sanction.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Cordell Walker

 personally, I always stand and say the pledge but  dont say  the under god part and slide my hand from my heart.
with the long list of shit going on in our schools, I dont think forcing a person to  say a daily oath should be a  priority

"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

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