The Girl Throw - Throwing Like a Girl
Courtesy Windsor Wildcats
"Hey, you throw like a girl!" Ever heard that on the field while playing ball with your friends? If you have, it means your throw kinda sucks.
The Girl Throw - What Is It?
The "girl throw" is that gimpy throwing style a lot of girls seem to have where it looks like they're almost "pushing" rather than hurling the ball. So what's the deal with the "girl throw?" Well, before going any further - let's get one thing straight. GIRLS CAN THROW. And many can throw harder and faster than a lot of guys. Softball players like Jennie Finch can chuck a ball close to 90 miles per hour. But many other girls still seem to throw really weird.
Many people think the reason for the "girl throw" is that guys and girls are somehow born with different kinds of arms and shoulders. Sure, there are a lot of physical differences between guys and girls (you've probably noticed) but the arm joint isn't one of them.
So what's the real reason. Well, it comes down to "practice makes perfect." Most boys grow up learning to
throw - either playing catch in the backyard with their friends or by joining Little League. There are lots of girls that play baseball and softball at a young age as well. But many never learn to throw when they're a kid because their parents don't teach them or they chose to do other things. It's the same reason why kids from France speak French better than most kids from America - it's because they've been learning to talk that way since they were born. The bottom line is the phrase "throwing like a girl" is really outdated - because many guys and girls throw really well, and many don't.
So the next time you see someone on the field (guy or girl) with one of those strange throwing motions, don't say, "you throw like a girl". Instead say, "you suck, you're a loser, you can't throw at all, you should be embarrassed to even be on the field. Go play for the Cubs."
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/371-the-girl-throw-throwing-like-a-girl
This seems similar to those pleas to kids to not use "gay" when refering to someone playing shadey or wimping out.
I agree,actually,that using that phrase would not be optimal. However, the encouraged response is a tad overblown.
And this article will discuss the reality that males tend to have greater upper body strength in general compared to women when?
The article also fails to mention that Jennie Finch is listed between 6 feet tall to 6 foot 1 inch. The average American woman is what? 5'2-5'5? The average American male is 5'8 to 5'10 on the average. She is taller than most men she encounters on a daily basis.
The ability to gain velocity on the ball when throwing is often dependent on height. You can get into the argument about mechanics, conditions of the throwing surface, etc - but it's commonly known that taller people can generate more velocity on a thrown ball because of the impact of their increased pitching stride.
The article doesn't mention she started pitching at 8 years old. Far far younger than most boys even begin pitching.
You could take 100 little girls and give them all the professional training in the world, and they will won't be able to outthrow 100 randomly selected boys their age.
If you want to make a sweeping generalization, then say boys AND girls today are probably stronger, taller and faster than kids their age 30 years ago. Nutrition is different. I wouldn't say better, but different. Information on health has changed. Information about the factors that promote/inhibit growth has changed. So if girls can throw much better now, well that means boys can throw even that much better than before as well.
JBPH
JackBauersPowerHour:
The article also fails to mention that Jennie Finch is listed between 6 feet tall to 6 foot 1 inch. The average American woman is what? 5'2-5'5? The average American male is 5'8 to 5'10 on the average. She is taller than most men she encounters on a daily basis.
I don't think they denied she's an exception.
And this article will discuss the reality that males tend to have greater upper body strength in general compared to women when?
Or lower body strength. I don't know much about throwing outside of of track and field but legs make up up to 70% of power in the discus for example.
The ability to gain velocity on the ball when throwing is often dependent on height. You can get into the argument about mechanics, conditions of the throwing surface, etc - but it's commonly known that taller people can generate more velocity on a thrown ball because of the impact of their increased pitching stride.
However,some throwers holding current world or national records are not ridiculously tall.
JackBauersPowerHour:
The article also fails to mention that Jennie Finch is listed between 6 feet tall to 6 foot 1 inch. The average American woman is what? 5'2-5'5? The average American male is 5'8 to 5'10 on the average. She is taller than most men she encounters on a daily basis.
I don't think they denied she's an exception.
And this article will discuss the reality that males tend to have greater upper body strength in general compared to women when?
Or lower body strength. I don't know much about throwing outside of of track and field but legs make up up to 70% of power in the discus for example.
The ability to gain velocity on the ball when throwing is often dependent on height. You can get into the argument about mechanics, conditions of the throwing surface, etc - but it's commonly known that taller people can generate more velocity on a thrown ball because of the impact of their increased pitching stride.
However,some throwers holding current world or national records are not ridiculously tall.
Umm...firstly see my avatar.
re throwing.
- upper body strength contributes only about ten percent.
- height is an advantage but only up to a point. Discus throwers do gain an advantage from height because of arm length and consequently top performers tend to be quite tall. Other throwing events and sports height isn't that much of an issue except for the fact that larger bodies can be made stronger(ie if everything else is equal the bigger athlete has an advantage which is true of just about anything).
- girls can throw but, as the article suggests, it's something their exposed to less than boys as they grow up.
- I've taught T&F throwing events to boys and girls for decades. Almost always the girls have to be taught to throw properly BEFORE the specific event techniques can be taught.
- you throw with your hips - NOT your arms.
My guess is that there are physical differences that impact the ability to throw. When my daughter was very young she, um, threw like a girl. No teaching, no nothing. Her motion of throwing appeared awkward and inefficient. When my son was very young he needed absolutely no instruction about how to throw. He threw efficiently and effectively from the start. The old "socially constructed" crap smells bad. Boys and girls are different physically. It seems more likely to me that for thousands of years boys were taught to throw for reasons of survival while girls were not given the same instruction or the same amount of practice time. Over those thousands of years the bodies of boys developed and evolved to maximize this ability. Lots of our differences can be traced to this idea.
Umm...firstly see my avatar.
re throwing.
- upper body strength contributes only about ten percent.
- height is an advantage but only up to a point. Discus throwers do gain an advantage from height because of arm length and consequently top performers tend to be quite tall. Other throwing events and sports height isn't that much of an issue except for the fact that larger bodies can be made stronger(ie if everything else is equal the bigger athlete has an advantage which is true of just about anything).
- girls can throw but, as the article suggests, it's something their exposed to less than boys as they grow up.
- I've taught T&F throwing events to boys and girls for decades. Almost always the girls have to be taught to throw properly BEFORE the specific event techniques can be taught.
- you throw with your hips - NOT your arms.
Why are you telling me this? I'm kind of a thrower myself. Not that I don't enjoy this topic.
The top throwers are always tall in comparison to the average. According to the testimonies of some of the greatest,height matters in other throws as well.It is not true of many other sports. 10%? What's your source?
I don't throw like a girl-and I can out throw most men in frisbee. :tongue2:
Of course my damn dog will still take the disc to any man in a 100 yard radius, even if they can only throw 10 freaking feet!
:BangHead:
He is such a man dog.
Umm...firstly see my avatar.
re throwing.
- upper body strength contributes only about ten percent.
- height is an advantage but only up to a point. Discus throwers do gain an advantage from height because of arm length and consequently top performers tend to be quite tall. Other throwing events and sports height isn't that much of an issue except for the fact that larger bodies can be made stronger(ie if everything else is equal the bigger athlete has an advantage which is true of just about anything).
- girls can throw but, as the article suggests, it's something their exposed to less than boys as they grow up.
- I've taught T&F throwing events to boys and girls for decades. Almost always the girls have to be taught to throw properly BEFORE the specific event techniques can be taught.
- you throw with your hips - NOT your arms.
Why are you telling me this? I'm kind of a thrower myself. Not that I don't enjoy this topic.
The top throwers are always tall in comparison to the average. According to the testimonies of some of the greatest,height matters in other throws as well.It is not true of many other sports. 10%? What's your source?
Sorry. Came off wrong. Not trying to disagree with you.
Larger bodies can be made stronger. Ergo at the top level larger athletes are more likely to succeed. Not arguing that.
This article isn't about the olympics. It's about more mundane, everyday people and about simple throwing action rather than anything specialised. I'm saying girls can be taught to throw quite effectively. Their different physique means their action needs to be a bit different but otherwise it's simply a matter of repetition - same as for boys. Boys are just more inclined to do it and tend to learn the best way on their own.
Source, aside from possibly simlar involvement to your own, was a publication from the late eighties which looked at olympic medalists and world record holders. Discus throwers are generally tall(bigger wing span, in those days about 6'4 tall), javelin(ave 6'1 surprised me) they're fairly spread, shot putters in between, and hammer throwers often short(advantage to smaller feet? more turns?). They're certainly all a couple of inches taller today but that's true in all sports.
There's actually a bit of a physical disconnect for women. As girls their body shape is roughly the same as the boys. As they mature the boy's physique greatly enhances his ability to generate energy. In women the change in body shape doesn't neccessarily help them in the same way. Top women athletes are generally on a par with top sixteen year old boys. Many boys grow into their twenties.
So there is a huge physical discrepancy but that still doesn't stop women from learning to throw efficiently.
Back in the dim dark ages I had the privilege of training with a number of world class athletes. One of them once spent several minutes lecturing me about how superior men were physically - particularly in sport. Her training partner nodded through all this and then said that the greatest compliment she'd ever received was being told she ran like a man. Because "men run perfectly". She had shoulders I would have killed for.
Sorry for edit but this prompted me to check google. I knew "shoulders" had married and headed to the US with hubby but I lost touch with her after that. This doesn't surprise me...
Powerhouse Gym, Bev Francis (http://www.bevfrancis.com/profile.html)
:yikes:
Damn. She could probably outlift most humans on this planet!
I have a lot of respect for those women, but I sure as hell would not want to look like that.
I am a girl, and I kinda like looking like one!
:yikes:
Damn. She could probably outlift most humans on this planet!
I have a lot of respect for those women, but I sure as hell would not want to look like that.
I am a girl, and I kinda like looking like one!
It's one of the sources of my admiration for her at the time(I was eighteen). I reckon it's pretty gutsy for anyone to step outside the norm like that. She's actually really easy to talk to. I suspect she was a good teacher.
I agree, you are really opening yourself up for a lot of flak stepping outside the box. That is a hard one. She does not, IMO, look much like a woman, she looks more like a man in a bikini. If she likes that, more power to her. As I said, I sincerely have a lot of respect for a woman who works that hard to do something. That is many, many hours of work to accomplish what she has.
My guess is that there are physical differences that impact the ability to throw. When my daughter was very young she, um, threw like a girl. No teaching, no nothing. Her motion of throwing appeared awkward and inefficient. When my son was very young he needed absolutely no instruction about how to throw. He threw efficiently and effectively from the start. The old "socially constructed" crap smells bad. Boys and girls are different physically. It seems more likely to me that for thousands of years boys were taught to throw for reasons of survival while girls were not given the same instruction or the same amount of practice time. Over those thousands of years the bodies of boys developed and evolved to maximize this ability. Lots of our differences can be traced to this idea.
There is a book out that I use in the SCA when training female fighters called "The Armored Rose." This discusses the very real physiological differences between men and women, and how to compensate for them in training. I have used similar principles when teaching my daughter martial arts.
The up shot of it is, the problem is not that your little girl is throwing like I girl. She's trying to copy all the boys throwing and is actually
throwing like a boy, when her body is not designed that way.
The woman bodybuilder in the above link has more free-circulating testosterone in her blood stream than most men....and thats because she injects it daily.
Gonzokid:
The up shot of it is, the problem is not that your little girl is throwing like I girl. She's trying to copy all the boys throwing and is actually throwing like a boy, when her body is not designed that way.
Is there evidence for that in throwing sports or are you just extrapolating? They have all the same (relevant) parts, why should they move them differently?
What I've read is that females have inferior gross motor skills and that differences in throwing ability are already apparent by age three.
Gonzokid:The up shot of it is, the problem is not that your little girl is throwing like I girl. She's trying to copy all the boys throwing and is actually throwing like a boy, when her body is not designed that way.
Is there evidence for that in throwing sports or are you just extrapolating? They have all the same (relevant) parts, why should they move them differently?
What I've read is that females have inferior gross motor skills and that differences in throwing ability are already apparent by age three.
Well, that is coming from a position of pure ignorance.
Take the example of a woman I am training to fight ring now. She is five feet tall. I am seven foot tall. And the difference between where her hips and natural waist is is nearly twice the same measurement on me.
Find a woman and have her make a fist while clutching a dowel rod. Then you do it. Compare the angle at which the dowels are held.
The upper body musculature is different. The tits get in the way if she tries to throw like a boy. The pelvis is jointed differently The center of gravity is in a different spot.
The whole range of body mechanics is entirely different. I could go on and on even more. You have more in common - genetically and body structure-wise - with a male chimpanzee than you do with a human female.
If you have a reference to answer my question aside from your own claims,some of which appear laughable, please show it. I asked for that kind of thing.
Gonz, I do have to say that many women can throw similarly to men. I have never thrown like a girl, because I was taught to throw correctly from a very young age. I agree there are some differences, but unless one has massive boobs, even a side arm throw would not put your upper arm in contact too much with them.
I do not know anything about fighting, so I will defer to your expertise there.
If you have a reference to answer my question aside from your own claims,some of which appear laughable, please show it. I asked for that kind of thing.
I already gave you one in the original post. "The Armored Rose." Go buy it, look it up, or whatever. In fact, google it.
Do your own damn homework.
Jeez, you'd think the fact that just about anyone who has passed an anatomy class can tell the difference between a male and female skeleton based on the physiological differences would be a whack with the cluebat for you. Or maybe the fact that 99.9% of human beings with an I.Q. at least one point above a turnip could identify a male and female body by their silhouette? Hey - you think that the fact that the female body is designed to repeatedly accommodate a 15 pound mass of baby and placenta might result in a different structure? Not to mention expel it?
Or maybe Jean-Luc Picard just has Dr. Crusher
BEAM the fucking thing out? Or baby fairies? Or is it "The Stork?"
Oh, here's another one - stand against a wall, heels and butt touching it. Now drop your wallet on the floor in front of you.
Now pick it up and stand up without losing contact with the wall with your heels and ass. Can't do it? Huh. Women can.
Wonder why that is? You both have all the same relevant parts, why should they work differently?
Hmm. Imagine that. Different body mechanics. Pardon me, but your gross ignorance is showing. That's allright. You stand corrected.
What the hell do you want, Commander Obvious? Do I need to do like I did on Hugo's a couple years back and put up four posts of data on the sexual dimorphism of the human species? There's another subject you can google - not that you would. God forbid a few facts interfere with your doctrinaire contempt for anything female.
How very feminist of you.
When nimrods start in with the whole "sources and cites" bullshit, it's often a waste of time to start providing it, as it indicate their mind is made up, and they don't want to be confused with facts. It's also another example of the trick of sophistry to make the assertion "Not so!" and then claim you didn't make any assertion.
Sorry my twenty years of experience in training males and females alike in martial arts, both armed and unarmed, disagree with your ignorantly held misconceptions. That's allright, though - Let's just discount anything like empiric experience, and a track record of success in applying those principles.
So tell you what - if you dispute me, as well as countless other people who have coached and trained both men and women, by all means, provide the data that contradicts decades of observation, development of methods, successful application of those methods, not to mention the obvious and indisputable sexual dimorphism of the species.
Gonz, I do have to say that many women can throw similarly to men. I have never thrown like a girl, because I was taught to throw correctly from a very young age. I agree there are some differences, but unless one has massive boobs, even a side arm throw would not put your upper arm in contact too much with them.
I do not know anything about fighting, so I will defer to your expertise there.
What is going to be different is the body mechanics required to throw - a baseball? - with the same velocity as a male. As your body lacks upper body strength compared to the male physique, you are going to require the use of a different stance which allows you to throw your hips into it.
The female breast is not so much an impediment to release, but to follow through. Combined with hand structure, and the fact that your shoulders are not as proportionately broad as a male of your height, this in fact does require most women to throw with a more sidearm style; though that has more to do with accuracy and control
Gonzokid:
Jeez, you'd think the fact that just about anyone who has passed an anatomy class can tell the difference between a male and female skeleton based on the physiological differences would be a whack with the cluebat for you.
You said that
You have more in common - genetically and body structure-wise - with a male chimpanzee than you do with a human female.
female human:
(http://www.lww.com/static/largeimages/QS108.jpg)
male human:
(http://www.lww.com/static/largeimages/QS101.jpg)
male chimp:
(http://www.evolutionnyc.com//ImgUpload/P_878393_939977.jpg)
Woman throwing the javelin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo_Vu1ZenYU
Man throwing the javelin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCz4V5Wm9c
Sorry,no ape videos.
:munky2:
Gonzokid:
I already gave you one in the original post. "The Armored Rose." Go buy it, look it up, or whatever. In fact, google it.
I checked Amazon,could not search the book for terms such as "throwing" but found a critical review.
(1 stars) Dissassembling the Armored Rose, February 16, 2007
Reviewer: J. M. Dawson "Some call me Corby" (Charlottesville, VA United States)
If women's bodies aren't able to move the same way as men's when throwing a blow, then why do female batters, boxers and martial artists move the same way as their male counterparts?
http://www.amazon.com/Armored-Rose-Tobi-Beck/dp/0966939905/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8264259-2895021?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178630967&sr=1-1
Gonzokid:
Sorry my twenty years of experience in training males and females alike in martial arts, both armed and unarmed, disagree with your ignorantly held misconceptions.
If your background is supposed to be an argument, then it's the logical fallacy known as 'appeal to authority'.
Jeez, you'd think the fact that just about anyone who has passed an anatomy class can tell the difference between a male and female skeleton based on the physiological differences would be a whack with the cluebat for you.
You said that
(meaningless pictures and nonsense snipped)
*sigh*
Start Here. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Chimpanzee+Sequencing+and+Analysis+Consortium%22%5BCorporate+Author%5D)Gonzokid:
I already gave you one in the original post. "The Armored Rose." Go buy it, look it up, or whatever. In fact, google it.
I checked Amazon,could not search the book for terms such as "throwing" but found a critical review.
(1 stars) Dissassembling the Armored Rose, February 16, 2007
Reviewer: J. M. Dawson "Some call me Corby" (Charlottesville, VA United States)
If women's bodies aren't able to move the same way as men's when throwing a blow, then why do female batters, boxers and martial artists move the same way as their male counterparts?
Edited (http://www.amazon.com/Armored-Rose-Tobi-Beck/dp/0966939905/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8264259-2895021?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178630967&sr=1-1)
Hmmm. So Sir Corby - who has never won a crown tournament is one of a minority who finds this of no value, in company with a fanboy, and a doctor who doesn't actually appear to fight. As opposed to a majority of people, including one lady who has actually won a crown tourney in her own right.
Yeah. That is conclusive.
Sorry my twenty years of experience in training males and females alike in martial arts, both armed and unarmed, disagree with your ignorantly held misconceptions.
If your background is supposed to be an argument, then it's the logical fallacy known as 'appeal to authority'.
It's also called "Abductive reasoning" when you apply it to people who actually have done something as opposed to paying attention to the unfounded assertions of armchair quarterbacks who haven't, and are just flappin' their jaw.
That latter group would include you.
Genetically there are 30-45 snips difference between a chimpanzee and a modern human.
There are around 5-10 snips between modern humans of different descendants (African vs European, for example). A snip is a base pair or several adjacent base pair nuleotide differences in the genetic code.
http://www.bioservers.org/html/sequences/sequences.html
This is a really cool tool to compare DNA. Click 'manage groups', pick out what groups you want to compare, then follow the directions.
This does not mention sex, but I cannot imagine there are more snips different between two modern humans based on sex alone than there are humans and chimps. Humans are only 1/10 of 1% genetically different from each other.
I am in genetics right now, so I just thought I would try to put my several thousand dollars of tuition to good use.
Gonzokid:
*sigh*
Start Here.
It does not discuss your earlier claims that men are closer to chimps and so forth.
It's also called "Abductive reasoning" when you apply it to people who actually have done something as opposed to paying attention to the unfounded assertions of armchair quarterbacks who haven't, and are just flappin' their jaw.
That latter group would include you.
I've read literature on throwing and I have not seen any discussion on whether females should attempt to throw differently,only some about whether they should workout differently. Your book is not even related to throwing,you have not confessed to any experience in throwing,have not cited from the book,and have produced a number of personal attacks.
Gonzokid:*sigh*
Start Here.
It does not discuss your earlier claims that men are closer to chimps and so forth.
Then you evidently didn't read it. Or just ignored the parts that disagreed with your worldview.
Like I figured.
It's also called "Abductive reasoning" when you apply it to people who actually have done something as opposed to paying attention to the unfounded assertions of armchair quarterbacks who haven't, and are just flappin' their jaw.
That latter group would include you.
I've read literature on throwing and I have not seen any discussion on whether females should attempt to throw differently,only some about whether they should workout differently. Your book is not even related to throwing,you have not confessed to any experience in throwing,have not cited from the book,and have produced a number of personal attacks.
SCA combat includes thrown weapons, and it does apply. If you had any clue about what was going on you'd be able to observe - from your own supplied videos - the differences in hip rotation, foot placement, and applied leverage in the two spear-chuckers.
I've done it for years. I've trained many women in many different styles of combat. I've taken classes on how to teach women to compensate for physiological and structural differences. Myself, and people like me - we have a long track record of success.
Idiots who adhere to the male/female equivalence model - long track record of failure.
Your call, buckwheat. You've now officially progressed from "Don't know" to "Don't wanna know."
You can consult other posts I have made on the difference between "ignorant," "dumb," and "stupid" and draw your own conclusions.
Gonzokid:
Then you evidently didn't read it. Or just ignored the parts that disagreed with your worldview.
Like I figured.
Here's what your link said:
Here we present a draft genome sequence of the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). Through comparison with the human genome, we have generated a largely complete catalogue of the genetic differences that have accumulated since the human and chimpanzee species diverged from our common ancestor, constituting approximately thirty-five million single-nucleotide changes, five million insertion/deletion events, and various chromosomal rearrangements. We use this catalogue to explore the magnitude and regional variation of mutational forces shaping these two genomes, and the strength of positive and negative selection acting on their genes. In particular, we find that the patterns of evolution in human and chimpanzee protein-coding genes are highly correlated and dominated by the fixation of neutral and slightly deleterious alleles. We also use the chimpanzee genome as an outgroup to investigate human population genetics and identify signatures of selective sweeps in recent human evolution.
It said that rather than "human males and chimps have more in common,genetically,than human males and females" or something to that direction. Now you could try to claim that I did not read the whole article,in case this was an abstract,but that's not what you offered.
Gonzokid:
Idiots who adhere to the male/female equivalence model - long track record of failure.
Irrelevant. I have not claimed males and females to be "equal". Your statement is ambigious.
Your call, buckwheat. You've now officially progressed from "Don't know" to "Don't wanna know."
You can consult other posts I have made on the difference between "ignorant," "dumb," and "stupid" and draw your own conclusions.
A position for which there would be evidence is that you have exhibited the behavior of a troll with your constant insults.
SCA combat includes thrown weapons, and it does apply. If you had any clue about what was going on you'd be able to observe - from your own supplied videos - the differences in hip rotation, foot placement, and applied leverage in the two spear-chuckers.
There are invidual differences between throwers,and throws,obviously. My guess is these throwers were happily unaware of your teachings which I will be referring to as the "Condescending Gonz" hypothesis as it seems to be traceable to the solitary book and your self-declared expertise. Perhaps you could point to some great female throwers who have been taught this or who declare it important. Or maybe it's only known by those who have had minimal exposure to throwing. :rolle:
So you just read the abstract. Figures. I'll make you abstract short, then. You're (excluding filler/Junk DNA) 1.7% variant from a chimp, and about 2.4% different from a human female. Your physiology (psyiology=/= structure or appearance) is closer to that of a male chimp; even including such things as male pattern baldness in certain families.
Now, I'll tell ya what, "Lovey." You come up with your qualifications to teach and coach, and let's compare.
I've been a martial arts instructor, at least full time, for 22 years. I'm qualified with Isshun-ryu Karate, Hapkido, Jiu-Jitsu, and Escrima. I've worked with the HACA, and the SCA and also am qualified with Bo-jutsu, Kenjutsu, and have competed in Kendo. I've trained men and women alike for that time, and up until the time I began attending seminars on the training of women, I had a miserable record of it.
Once I took those lessons, and began to adjust training accordingly, the women I trained began to go on to be very successful in tournaments, some even competing with men.
Now ... you? You've done... what? Sit on your ass and watch a YouTube video and come to the conclusion that since a man and a woman are both throwing a javelin overhand they are doing the same thing?
Oh, Lord have mercy. God, let me amend my evil ways, sinner that I am. I'll just cast aside the years of application of this in favor of Lovey's Declaration of the way things really are. How ever could I have been so wrong. I guess all that was just illusion and coincidence.
Sheesh.
Try taking a course in kinesieology. It is the study of muscle and joint movements, required course for all P.E. teachers and Coaches. What Gonz says about musculature and skeletal differences between male and female is correct. In addition to the but on the wall pick up an object example Gonz gives try another wall exercise. Place a chair agaist a wall lean over the chair with the top of your head touching the wall. Take a half step back while still leaning over and attempt to pick up the chair. If you succeed you are female. The way a man is built through his lower body will prevent him from lifting the chair in that position.
Gonzokid:
Insert Quote
So you just read the abstract. Figures. I'll make you abstract short, then. You're (excluding filler/Junk DNA) 1.7% variant from a chimp, and about 2.4% different from a human female. Your physiology (psyiology=/= structure or appearance) is closer to that of a male chimp; even including such things as male pattern baldness in certain families.
That's what you gave so it figures all right. Making me jump through hoops of, course, would significantly slow down my ability to advance in a discussion.But that's not a suggestion.
It has to do with which studies or methods you believe. There's the 98% myth (since a myth refers to an old belief, I think it's an appropriate term here) and a 95% one too, based on different methods. Back in the 90's or later,some high profile evolutionists were seen suggesting that most of our genes are useless baggage,but as research has advanced, more functions have been found. Just like some believed there to be maybe over a hundred vestigial organs in a human back in the 19th century. Some myths have died a very slow death.
So it seems like you've changed your position a bit, now men are only physiologically or so closer to chimps. A problem here is one can easily cherry pick invidual similarities and arbitrarily claim some to be more important than others. Like balding as a similarity rather than brain size and activity as a difference. Some animals that are not believed to be closely related have some notable similarities in certain proteins.
It's not important who I am or what I have done, the important thing is who has the scientific backing.We do not exist in a vacuum, there's a fair amount of people out there who're actually experts in this field,and they should be able to confirm either position. I came up with a specific question,told that I have not seen any evidence in my own studying, and you repeatedly told me about your self-defense art experiences. I suppose that's what your preferred response comes down to. I have little interest in hearing it again, but I'll keep it in mind if you'll grant me the same respect.
BRIAN:
Try taking a course in kinesieology. It is the study of muscle and joint movements, required course for all P.E. teachers and Coaches. What Gonz says about musculature and skeletal differences between male and female is correct. In addition to the but on the wall pick up an object example Gonz gives try another wall exercise. Place a chair agaist a wall lean over the chair with the top of your head touching the wall. Take a half step back while still leaning over and attempt to pick up the chair. If you succeed you are female. The way a man is built through his lower body will prevent him from lifting the chair in that position.
I have a hard time deciphering some of your grammar here but I think I get the more important point. Would you have an illustration for me so I could see if I'm equally badly up to task?
SR, Gonz is right on this one.
I've taken several courses in human anatomy, and the differences between male and female kinesiology (i.e., the science of strength and physical movement) is well-known. The differences in bones and musculature between men and women range from obvious parts like the pelvic floor to subtle variations in muscle insertions on, e.g., the head of the femur. Heck, I used to be able to identify the difference between a male and female femur just by the tubercles, i.e., the little bumps where the tendons/muscles attach to the bones. A good forensic pathologist can do this in about 0.01 seconds. Similarly, the female humerus/clavicle/deltoid assembly (i.e., the shoulder) is different between men and women.
These differences in location for the joint angles and muscle insertions are what cause the differences in kinesiology we observe between men and women, because a muscle/bone/joint assembly is essentially a lever. And when you have levers with two different points for the fulcrum where the force is applied you have two fundamentally different levers. Different lever, different kinesiology.
That's why girls throw like girls and boys throw like boys.
Yeah but,
The enlightened Womyn at the Ms. Boards said gender was merely a "social construct", nothing more.
And they went to college and everything. :greener:
I do not think that the human male is closer to chimps than human females. I think that is where the evidence is lacking. I agree with Gonz that there are pretty big difference between the genders as far as physiology, but not to the extent that men are more like chimps than women.
Damn that middle ground.
I did not know that I am a woman. Good to find out now, but someone should have told me earlier.
Oh, here's another one - stand against a wall, heels and butt touching it. Now drop your wallet on the floor in front of you.
Now pick it up and stand up without losing contact with the wall with your heels and ass. Can't do it? Huh. Women can.
1.1 First attempt: bow forward. No, will trip over. The question remains: How many women can do it this way? Ladies, try it and report, please.
1.2 Slide the ass down, bending the knees. Pick the wallet up, slide up again. Yes, success.
Place a chair agaist a wall lean over the chair with the top of your head touching the wall. Take a half step back while still leaning over and attempt to pick up the chair. If you succeed you are female. The way a man is built through his lower body will prevent him from lifting the chair in that position.
2. I am too stupid to understand the instructions.
3. I tried it - success.
I am in the school library-would look like an ass for doing so right now. I will try it at home and report back.
I did not know that I am a woman. Good to find out now, but someone should have told me earlier.
Oh, here's another one - stand against a wall, heels and butt touching it. Now drop your wallet on the floor in front of you.
Now pick it up and stand up without losing contact with the wall with your heels and ass. Can't do it? Huh. Women can.
1.1 First attempt: bow forward. No, will trip over. The question remains: How many women can do it this way? Ladies, try it and report, please.
1.2 Slide the ass down, bending the knees. Pick the wallet up, slide up again. Yes, success.
Peter, what this shows me is that rather than blindly following instructions you used your head and figured out a way to beat the system.
Congratulations - you're a man. :greener:
Quote
Oh, here's another one - stand against a wall, heels and butt touching it. Now drop your wallet on the floor in front of you.
Now pick it up and stand up without losing contact with the wall with your heels and ass. Can't do it? Huh. Women can.
1.1 First attempt: bow forward. No, will trip over. The question remains: How many women can do it this way? Ladies, try it and report, please.
1.2 Slide the ass down, bending the knees. Pick the wallet up, slide up again. Yes, success.
Quote
Place a chair agaist a wall lean over the chair with the top of your head touching the wall. Take a half step back while still leaning over and attempt to pick up the chair. If you succeed you are female. The way a man is built through his lower body will prevent him from lifting the chair in that position.
2. I am too stupid to understand the instructions.
3. I tried it - success.
Peter, what this shows me is that rather than blindly following instructions you used your head and figured out a way to beat the system.
Congratulations - you're a man.
1-
Bahaha! I couldn't do it, and I didn't think to do it the other way...guess I am a woman? Then whoever posted it got it backwards. I tip over if I try to pick something up with my butt and feet against the wall.
2 I was too stupid too. Is my head supposed to still be touching the wall? What direction is the back of the chair pointing?
So the next time you see someone on the field (guy or girl) with one of those strange throwing motions, don't say, "you throw like a girl". Instead say, "you suck, you're a loser, you can't throw at all, you should be embarrassed to even be on the field. Go play for the Cubs."
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/371-the-girl-throw-throwing-like-a-girl
Validity of "throwing like a girl" aside, what's with this ridiculous, biased, mean-spirited, and totally unwarranted potshot at the Chicago Cubs?
I invite the journalist to look up which team has allowed the fewest runs in the entire National League as of this moment )May 9, 2007). You'll never guess which team it is!
Obviously the Cubs have enough good pitching that they don't need anyone with one of those "strange throwing motions".
http://www.mediatakeout.com/5560/shocking_pics_meet_the_worlds_strongest_woman.html
Yes women are different than men... err... I bet she throws like a girl :laughing6:
Not only am I not offended by this, but I think it's hilarious. The kid will grow up soon anyway.
Humans are bipedal and have longer legs than arms. Chimpanzee -- like all the species of greater and lesser apes -- are quadrupedal and have longer arms than legs. The result is chimpanzee's are adept at climbing and swinging but find it difficult to walk in an upright position. Humans on the other hand can walk and run in an upright position with ease, but are usually poor climbers. You won't see a Human swinging from branch to branch in the canopy of the forest.
I am not an expert on the musculoskeletal differences between pongidae and Humans, however I can imagine that the fact the former are quadrupedal while the latter are bipedal leads to the two species of Homininae holding a lot of disparate physical features.
I am not saying that men share more in common with women as opposed to male chimpanzees, however I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Afterall, there are a lot of musculoskeletal disparities between Humans and apes.
Men and women can throw while they're standing. Apes would have a harder time doing this, as they wouldn't be able to balance themselves as well as a standing Human. Sure, there are probably a lot of differences between how a man and a woman throw, but I doubt there are less differences between how a man and a male chimpanzee would throw.
That looked like a guy in a dress. Is there any proof that is really a woman?
Chimps throw like girls. I have seen it.
Chimps throw like girls. I have seen it.
How do girls throw? I honestly cannot remember how they throw.
Chimps throw like girls. I have seen it.
How do girls throw? I honestly cannot remember how they throw.
Like chimps, I guess.
Not like I know how THEY throw... :laughing6:
Most girls aim with their elbow with their first pointing backwards, then throw towards where their elbows are pointing. Boys aim with elbows back and fist pointing foward, then slingshot the ball forward, elbow first, then first following through.
Simply put girls putt(as in Shot Putt). They have no backswing. But they can be taught.
Yes we can. I thin most boys start off throwing like 'girls' but quickly figure out a better way to do it. Most girls don't care enough. That said, I truly think throwing is partially due to socialization, because when sports are made a priority with girls, they learn to throw.
They have their arm totally parallel to their side, bent at the elbow so the forearm points up, and they swing their shoulders, not their arms, until the end of the throw. Then they cross their forearm to be horizontally in front of them and limply let go of the ball, and go, "unh" for added girly effect.
Edit: Personally, I think everything is a shuriken if you try hard enough, and throw accordingly.