Stand Your Ground

Stand Your Ground Forums => Main => Topic started by: Amber on Dec 15, 2003, 08:54 PM

Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 15, 2003, 08:54 PM
I get shit like this more than once, but they mention syg in it so I thought it would be fun to look at.  This is a guest book signature.  

"I just wanted to say you are a closet feminist anti male propagandist who rides on the coat tails of intellectuals; albeit ignorant of said intellectual's position. Ayn Rand would hide in shame to be on the same ticket with you, Ms. Pawlik. You are a pathetic example of objectivism and pure understanding of gender. Dudley Do Right has more on the ball with Natashia and Bullwinkle than you and your panty sniffing, palm chaffing, jack-off sporting, shit eating loser fair weather friends at stand your ground.com."


I get accused of being a "feminist apologis" rather often.  Mostly, I just see it as a lot of small minded people trying to categorize me into something they hate so they can have a legitimate reason to hate me.  

So my challenge is:  why?  Why am I a "feminist?"

I suppose my anti feminist club at Penn State, staunch opposal to every single feminist tenet; etc., make me a feminist.  I mean .. what is it?  What about me is feminist?  Because I believe in marriage and women having some type of self interest?  Oh ... because I advocate career women?  That's about as 'feminist' as I come.  I'm putting a challenge out there to all my haters to tell me why I am a feminist.  Confront me here, on a public space that it is well known I post at.  For some reason, no one ever does that ... I usually get fly by comments like this.

". Dudley Do Right has more on the ball with Natashia and Bullwinkle than you and your panty sniffing, palm chaffing, jack-off sporting, shit eating loser fair weather friends at stand your ground.com."


Panty sniffing .. obviously someone familiar with Shethinks, specifically Dan ... shit eating ... where have I heard that before?  :scratching_chin:  And Bullwinkle sounds familiar from somewhere ... was that brought up on this board or shethinks before?

Personally I think UR just got more clever at disguising who he is when signing my guest book so I don't autmoatically delete it ... as I delete not necessarily all nasty entrys but rather ones that are clearly trolls.
Title: Re: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 15, 2003, 09:12 PM
Quote from: "Amber"

I get accused of being a "feminist apologis" rather often.  Mostly, I just see it as a lot of small minded people trying to categorize me into something they hate so they can have a legitimate reason to hate me.  

So my challenge is:  why?  Why am I a "feminist?"

I suppose my anti feminist club at Penn State, staunch opposal to every single feminist tenet; etc., make me a feminist.  I mean .. what is it?  What about me is feminist?  Because I believe in marriage and women having some type of self interest?  Oh ... because I advocate career women?  That's about as 'feminist' as I come.  I'm putting a challenge out there to all my haters to tell me why I am a feminist.  Confront me here, on a public space that it is well known I post at.  


Can you start with answering the rebuttals to your own previous posts?
I think they might provide some insight.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: The Gonzman on Dec 15, 2003, 09:37 PM
All right, I'll repeat what I said elsewhere:

You're very big on lecturing men on their traditional roles, responsibilities and the restrictions that come with them.  But when it comes to lecturing women on theirs, you're notably silent, where you even bother to acknowledge them at all.  Women's Rights - a lot of talk about choices and all.  Let a man mention his rights or choices, and you're first in line to mock them.  You come across as the only choices a man has any right to are HOW he is going to fulfill his obligations to the sacred feminine.

That's feminism.  All people are created equal.  Just women are a little more equal than men.

You want it both ways.  You want your cake and eat it too.  You want equality when it's to your advantage, and traditionalism when it's to your advantage.

You're a paranoid.  I've read time and again people questioning your reasoning, and immediately it becomes a personal attack against you in your mind.   The whole idea that you think there is some "Hate Amber" conspiracy against you should set off hundreds of little warning sirens in your head.

You have no POV but your own.  You have no compassion, no empathy.  Your concern about feminism is chiefly trying to turn back the clock on what you feel you have lost.  It's not about how it hurts someone else.  It's how Amber is hurt by it.  If Amber isn't hurt by it, Amber doesn't give a shit.

Not true?  It's evidently how you are percieved, and as the sage saith, perception is everything.  You might try considering for once that when a whole lot of people are hearing you in a way "You Don't Mean" that it isn't their hearing that's the problem but your mouth.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 15, 2003, 10:17 PM
When have I lectured men on a traditional role?  Name one place.

Quote
You want it both ways. You want your cake and eat it too. You want equality when it's to your advantage, and traditionalism when it's to your advantage.


This is absurd.  When have I ever advocated 'equality'?  I've said over and over I don't favor "equality."

Ya, there is a hate Amber club.  I'm not paranoid.  On MND, there are discussion about starting a boycott until Mike stops publishing my articles.

You are full of it GONZOKID.  You've been full of it since you first started posting here - first when you made those condescending posts against Alicia.  

Well, anyway ... go ahead and find one place where I said women should have "equality" and no responsiblities.  Back in my shethinks days, I used to come out and say things like women shouldn't have the right to vote.  You mens rights activists live in your own world ... so bitter, so detached from reality.  

Here is a newsflash mens rights activists:  I'm one of your best weapons against feminism.  And the fact that you hate me reveals you for everything you are.  You are not anti feminist you are anti woman.  You don't want to topple feminism - something of which someone like me is capable of.  You'd rather KEEP feminism, because it gives you victim status.  Since feminists discriminate against men, you get victim status and all the protectionism that goes along with it.  I speak the truth, and you know it ... and I'm not a feminist, and lots of people like me ... and THAT'S why you  hate me, no other reason.  

Anyway, what the hell am I doing even engaging these a$$holes who are so condescending, brutish, angry and evil???  UGGGGH, they give me the chills.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 15, 2003, 10:22 PM
In my most recent article, EMB ... I call on men AND women to be wise in their dating habits, to prepare for marriage.  One of the last things I wrote about gender was regarding the chinese martial artist, who was in jail for saving several women - and I come to his *defense* against being victimized, i.e. going to jail over it.  About as close as I come to advocating any kind of traditional role is in my article on Jessica Lynch.  It really had nothing to do with men at all - it had to do with exposing the stupidity of having women in the military.  This is a very classic conservative position.  Anyway ... mens rights activists especially gonzokid live in their own world.  They refuse to see details.  They have no specifics to charge me with.  They could never say in X Y Z article and point you make, I disagree.  It's just a huge swirling wind ... I HATE THAT GIRL.  Just like the feminists.  They can't really even point to X Y Z behavior of men they hate, it's just .... WE HATE MEN!  God, I'm so glad I dont' live in your brain.  <shudders>
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 15, 2003, 10:24 PM
Quote from: "Amber"

Well, anyway ... go ahead and find one place where I said women should have "equality" and no responsiblities.


The Draft

Quote

Here is a newsflash mens rights activists:  I'm one of your best weapons against feminism.  And the fact that you hate me reveals you for everything you are.


Ok, now wait a minute.  No one here has said they Hate you.  You are a good person full of good ideas, who sometimes happens to react fast too and too emotionally to opinions expressed that vary from yours.  Some of these guys come down hard on you, but that's only because they want to test your metal.  What were you forged in?
Not women's studies class, we know that.  No, you are a schooled thinker who should be able to accept that everyone won't agree with you all the time.

Quote

You are not anti feminist you are anti woman.  You don't want to topple feminism - something of which someone like me is capable of.  You'd rather KEEP feminism, because it gives you victim status.  Since feminists discriminate against men, you get victim status and all the protectionism that goes along with it.  I speak the truth, and you know it ... and I'm not a feminist, and lots of people like me ... and THAT'S why you  hate me, no other reason.  


Amber (shakes head), if you would just stop to listen you could challenge the opinions expressed rather than accuse us of hatred.  From what I can see many people here agree with lots' of your opinions.  Christ!  That's what the unthinking left does.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 15, 2003, 10:30 PM
How is my position on the draft an advocacy of "equality"?  First of all, I DO NOT believe in the draft.  However, if there is to be a draft, I specifically say women should not be drafted and men should.  How is this a place where I advocate "equality"?  It specifically is NOT equality.  Duh.  

The people who hate me are on the mensnewsdaily.com forums.  

Find a place where I say I want to "have my cake and eat it too."  Name just one place.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 15, 2003, 10:36 PM
This really has nothing to do with what is going on at this forum.  It has to do with what is going on at the MND forum.  Basically, they sit around and grunt about  how I am 1) young 2) a feminist 3) a man hater ... and a lot of other nonsense.  I've yet to see any of them name any SPECIFICS about me regarding what is wrong about me ... other than I have conservative views about marriage and male/female roles.  So sue me.

And I don't see why any of my articles should have to hit things from the "male perspective."  I'm a female - DUH.  I hit things from the angle I want, from the things that are important to me, usually an Objectivist angle.  If I am "silent" on an issue, it's my perogative.  I write about issues that are current or issues that I am working on for my book.  DuuHHhhhhh.  If the Andrea Yates story were current, I'd be writing about how feminists don't hold women to standards.  In fact, I have an article called The 21st Century Joan of Arc which comes out hard against feminists for wanting protectionism for women.  So how exactly am I even silent on the issue?  

The fact of the matter is these guys are a bunch of leftists.  I'm a conservative.  It has nothing to do with me being a "feminist apologist."  I'm not a feminist.  God, these men are on the level of animals.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 15, 2003, 10:36 PM
Quote from: "Amber"
How is my position on the draft an advocacy of "equality"?  First of all, I DO NOT believe in the draft.  However, if there is to be a draft, I specifically say women should not be drafted and men should.  How is this a place where I advocate "equality"?  It specifically is NOT equality.  Duh.  


Well, in the first place, that is enough to get on your goat, because like the quote says - you didn't advocate equal responsibility for women
i.e. you want the spoils without the effort.

"Well, anyway ... go ahead and find one place where I said women should have "equality" and no responsiblities. "

Quote

The people who hate me are on the mensnewsdaily.com forums.  


Umm....then why challenge them here?  It's not like the majority of them can  post here.  Maybe some of them can, I guess.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Beste on Dec 16, 2003, 03:26 AM
Quote from: "Gonzo the great"
You want it both ways. You want your cake and eat it too. You want equality when it's to your advantage, and traditionalism when it's to your advantage.


Quote from: "Amber the feminist"

Find a place where I say I want to "have my cake and eat it too."  Name just one place.


Where?!?! In same post I quoted you from.

Can you see it?

Quote from: "Amber the cake-muncher"
How is my position on the draft an advocacy of "equality"?  First of all, I DO NOT believe in the draft.  However, if there is to be a draft, I specifically say women should not be drafted and men should.


Does anyone else see it?

Quote from: "Amber missing his point"
How is this a place where I advocate "equality"?  It specifically is NOT equality.  Duh.


That's his whole point. Duh.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: The Gonzman on Dec 16, 2003, 03:36 AM
Look, you asked.  You got answered.  Of couirse dozens of people say the same damn thing, but no, we're wrong, and we...

Christ in a bucket.

Advocating that neither men nor women should act like assholes, or drive against traffic, or eat rat poison isn't advocating anything in the way of egalitarianism.  Yeah, in that respect you're right -

You advocate that men should be the ones to go off and fight and die - but women should have full say in making the policies they die for.

You advocate that women should have the right to home or career, as they choose.  Should men?  Or are men who decide they want to "choose" meninists, like Karen DeCoster says?  If men are going to have a "responsibility" s to support their families when push comes to shove, should they or should they not recieve preferences in hiring, raises, promotions, and such?  Yes or No?

Should there, or should there not be a rebuttable presumption of joint custody in the case of divorce?  Notice carefully, Amber, we "anti-woman MRAs" all use this term.  Or are you another one of these traditionalist, ertsatz anti-feminists who want to make sure you still have the "screw the man" trump card reserved for yourself?

Alimony - abolish it?  Yes or no?

Susan Smith, Andrea Yates - should they have recieved Death Sentences - JUST LIKE A MAN WOULD HAVE?  Yes or no?

If I defrauded you out of a hundred grand over a fifteen year period, I would go to jail, and be subject to draconian repayment.  Should women who defraud men similarly through paternity fraud suffer similar consequences?  Yes or No?  Should they suffer ANY consequences, of a real nature?  Or just get a "tsk, tsk, you bad girl, shouln't oughter" from society?

You believe in Marriage?  Real case - done countless times - Anne and Bob are married.  One day Anne decides she isn't "fulfilled" so she starts an affair, files a bogus charge of abuse to get Bob out of the house, and takes him for kids and the "infrastructure." (House, car, bank accounts, etc.)  Bob is also stuck with the bills, the mortgage, and Child support, even though his business collapsed (Anne got half of it, and cashed her chips in, leaving Bob with insufficient capital to continue) Bob is still liable for an imputed income of triple what he makes.  It can be empirically stated that bob was a loyal, hardworking, and gentle man who never raised his hand and hardly ever his voice.  Crock of shit, or no?  Should meaningful change be enacted in such a system?  Better yet, since Anne unilaterally decided to trash the marriage, is it or is it not right and just that she walk out with no legal entitlements to anything - just like a man would if he abandoned his family?  Yes or no?  Is she scum, or is it "different" because she's a woman?

Ypou want to impress MRAs, and give them no ammunition?  Try addressing the issues that mean something to them, rather than superficialities.
Title: Amber
Post by: LSBeene on Dec 16, 2003, 04:10 AM
Amber, my response

I have, on many occasions, expressed my ADMIRATION of you and my SUPPORT of you.  I even sent you a PM.  

But what GONZO says is PERFECTLY VALID.  We MRA's are against the FALSE DV INDUSTRY, no accountability in child support, lack of access to children, the lack of penalty to false allegations, and other INJUSTICES that men face.  

I have made no secret of being falsely accused of rape.  I don't "revel" in it.  But I will NOT sit tight and not "whine" while my life gets ripped apart.  There is nothing WRONG with me trying to prevent what heppened to me happening to others.  

I am also a supporter of "traditional marraiges".  My wife is great.  I also picked her because of her values.  And I hope she would say the same.  I will now tell you I picked an ASIAN woman, specifically because she was not infected/indoctrinated with the Princess-Equal syndrome that American women seem to subscribe to.  

You DO need to LISTEN, not put a 20 page diatribe, to WHY men are upset about the current status quo.  The men in this country are getting a raw deal on many fronts.   But when we speak about it we get shouted down, fired for expressing our opinions, discounted as being angry, and flat out ignored.  

Just my thoughts, and not very well written, I'm kinda tired

Steven
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: nyet on Dec 16, 2003, 09:00 AM
One of the ways that Amber is exaclty like a leftist is that she favors a 'one size fits all' approach to things,

Leftists almost always favor such approaches to solving the problems of society.

Another reason she's like a leftist is that she insists her opinion is a fact, and she lauches quickly into ad hominem attacks any time her opinion is questioned or debated. Like a true leftist, she allows no room for the possibility that she might be wrong.

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and the rest of the members of the Continental Congress showed that they had values, and wise ideas. They were also wise enough to know that they didn't know everything, and instead of being tyrannical in trying to apply their opinions to everyone, left room for their mistakes to be changed.

Amber also displays at least some level of hypocrisy, in that she posts about how men and women should practice modesty and be virtuous and states that she believes in those things, yet does not practice what she preaches. She has posted on at least one other messageboard about how much she loves the cock (acting just like one of those valueless 'sluts' she decries so much) and swears like a drunken sailor when anyone disagrees with her (not the ladylike behaviour she seems to believe all other women should exhibit). Further, after her preachings about being a good and moral person, she skulks off to go go and 'get drunk with other people.'

Quote
Amber
[00:54] Rebam98: I'm getting drunk and having fun with other people


She, like a liberal, is fast to abandon fact and logic and to jump into emotion (classic also to feminists) and seems to see nothing wrong with angry and violent outbursts (which the feminists of Ms. have posted extensively on their own violent tempers.) Also like a feminist, any debate against her ideas is seen as a personal attack, as hatred. The only difference is that Amber limits the belief of hatred to herself, where feminists extend it to the whole gender.

Amber's got good ideas, but she needs to learn to lay off hte emotional outbursts and belief that anyone who disagrees with her 'hates' her. She also needs to give up the idea that she knows everything. Nobody, no matter how wise they are, knows everything - but the person who believes they know everything is the most foolish. Amber could use hearing these things to grow in her abilities to write and to debate, and I hope she does. It would serve to strengthen the foundation of her opinions, and get people to take her more seriously than the current impression, which is that she is a histrionic solipsist.
Title: Re: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: InternetDevil on Dec 16, 2003, 11:53 AM
Quote from: "Amber"
So my challenge is:  why?  Why am I a "feminist?"


I understand that you are very much against 1965 feminism which I and most people in men's movement support -- gender eqality.  But you seem to be for 2003 feminism -- rigid traditional burdens for men magnified many times.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Rayden on Dec 16, 2003, 04:59 PM
I think Amber needs to get a job, busy hands are happy hands.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: FEMINAZIHATEMARTYR on Dec 16, 2003, 05:09 PM
Can we all get along? What about Vive le Difference'? Lets not let SYG become MSMAGGOTZINE.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: devia on Dec 16, 2003, 06:02 PM
Nyet-

Although I'm probably preaching to the choir.

The disease of thinking the whole world should think like you is not in any way shape or form specific to the right or the left.

It's an individual narrow-mindedness that leads one to think that they of all the people who have ever populated the earth have all the answers for everyone. The only difference is how many of the wandering sheep can this person convince that they above all others have all the answers.

Personally I vote for me.  :lol:
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Matt on Dec 16, 2003, 06:05 PM
I would love to have denziens of lackeys and followers.

Come on. You could do worse than to have me as a cult leader...
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: devia on Dec 16, 2003, 06:09 PM
NO NO MATT!


FOLLOW ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get with the program!
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: The Gonzman on Dec 16, 2003, 06:14 PM
No!  No!  ME! ME!  I am the way, the sole knower of truth!  I don't just think it, I know it!

I can't believe you people.  You disagree?  You're all COMMUNISTS, trying to DESTROY AMERICA!  You hate the family, you hate everything that made America great and you hate me!

GAAAAAAH!  You're all on ignore!  Leftists!  MRAs!  Feminists!

...Ahem.

Pardon me.  Was I raving?
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: The Gonzman on Dec 16, 2003, 06:15 PM
And at almost any time, on cue, the answer as to how many feminists it takes to change a lightbulb?  (Answer:  That's NOT FUNNY!)

3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Bilbo on Dec 16, 2003, 06:19 PM
Quote from: "Matt"
I would love to have denziens of lackeys and followers.

Come on. You could do worse than to have me as a cult leader...



If you need any pointers, go over to Howard Dean's website.

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=2682

Notice the recurrent use of their mantra, "We are Dean".  Then, substitute your name.  "We are Matt".

Don't forget this little feller!

(http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/interviews/grimsheep/pics/kool-aid.jpg)
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: devia on Dec 16, 2003, 06:24 PM
You peons are all simply delusional.


I wash my hands of it all and will go forth elsewhere in order to gather my loyal sheep like followers.
I bid you a not so fond ado.. Your loss.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: devia on Dec 16, 2003, 06:25 PM
Yet....

That coolaid kid seems to make me weak....

yes coolaid kid master......................................................................
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Bilbo on Dec 16, 2003, 06:29 PM
And, he's bi  :wink:
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Matt on Dec 16, 2003, 06:30 PM
You haven't told me what your cult has to offer yet, devia...

Always make the pitch before abandoning the sale.  8)
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: devia on Dec 16, 2003, 06:35 PM
I'm hot of course...an admitted long time Jezebel.
What else could a male sheep need?



The coolaid kid is bi?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... I feel weak...

Could those little arms deliver a decent wallop to the ass region though? Before I take him as my deity I have to confirm this, and a few other things.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: AliciaGoMavs on Dec 16, 2003, 06:39 PM
If anyone should have followers, it's the one holding the cool list...
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Matt on Dec 16, 2003, 06:39 PM
A decent wallop to the ass, as I understand it, is simply a matter of knowing the right spot and hitting it at the right angle. If he's got functioning arms, he can be trained.  8)
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Bilbo on Dec 16, 2003, 06:40 PM
Quote from: "devia"
I'm hot of course...an admitted long time Jezebel.
What else could a male sheep need?


<sigh>


Quote
The coolaid kid is bi?


Just so you don't offend him, it's Kool-aid.

Quote
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... I feel weak...


Low blood sugar, eh?  Fresh juice is on the way.

Quote
Could those little arms deliver a decent wallop to the ass region though?


No, but he's good with ice.





Actually, Kool-aid's not much of a leader when it comes to cults.  He's more of an accessory.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Matt on Dec 16, 2003, 06:49 PM
And would that we were all fortunate enough to have someone as awesome as devia train us in the oft-neglected art of ass-walloping.  8)
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Bilbo on Dec 16, 2003, 06:53 PM
Take a number.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Matt on Dec 16, 2003, 06:58 PM
Is it a seminar course in your cult, devia? If so, you might have earned yourself a new follower.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: devia on Dec 16, 2003, 07:03 PM
blup blup.....

What's that Boo?

Umm.. yes.. ass walloping is part of the all inclusive package. Sign up to your left or right depending on your political preference...It's all good, just remember that I'm a demigod and all that.....
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 16, 2003, 07:49 PM
Quote from: "Gonzokid"
And at almost any time, on cue, the answer as to how many feminists it takes to change a lightbulb?  (Answer:  That's NOT FUNNY!)

3 ... 2 ... 1 ...


20!  

One (and 298 afterwards to comiserate!).  [feminists never could count]

Heh.

Or wait...was it...

Four. One to change the bulb, and three to write about how
the bulb is exploiting the socket.

Hmm....not quite sure if I've got it...

None.  Feminists view light bulbs as oppressive tools of the
"patriarchy," so they will not use them.

Ah!  I think I've got it:

How old-fashioned.  The other 99 are there to lobby Congress to outlaw  
crimes against sockets -- and to say the bulb-changer is not a  
representative of mainstream feminism.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: AliciaGoMavs on Dec 16, 2003, 07:56 PM
Couple of my faves...

How many fundamentalists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Answer: None.  Screwing in light bulbs is not in the bible.  That's why they are always in the dark!

How many psychologists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
One.  But the bulb must want to change.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 16, 2003, 08:02 PM
Hehe...but that's only if they can convince the bulb that it has been the receptor to unwanted sexual advances!
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 16, 2003, 08:14 PM
Quote from: "devia"
I'm hot of course...an admitted long time Jezebel.

Quote
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... I feel weak...


Low blood sugar, eh?  Fresh juice is on the way.


Bilbo, you be hilarious.   :lol:
Title: HI GUYS
Post by: LSBeene on Dec 17, 2003, 03:21 PM
I posted this at MND also, as there is a discussion there about banning Amber from the board.  I think the post belongs on this board here too, even though the subject has digressed.

Man, you guys are gonna blow a gasket....

Ok, I do NOT believe that we should BAN Amber from MND.  I got a couple of reasons and I hope you will take the time to read them, digest them, and, if you disagree (cool) plz understand that I gave this a lot of thought.

1)  It is true that Amber can be ... well ... Amber, but I do not advocate the PC (read: "feminazi") way of social silencing her words.  Allow me to explain?  See, I have posted on many Feminist boards and liberal boards.  Whenever I wrote divergant thoughts (and most of you guys know that I really really try to be factual as I can) I had my posts [edited] for "going off topic", "using baiting speech" (<---proving they were self-indulgent trogladytes), and "hey, male scum, this is a FEMINIST board".  I thought that the silencing tactic was chickenshit and childish.  We men can be better than that.  

2) Amber IS young.  Ok, ok, I know I may get flamed for that, but hear me out plz.  I am 34 years old (no comments plz,  :D )  She is still forming her identity (much as you guys who are her age may wanna slap me for saying that) and she IS  --- a) very intelligent --- b) naive --- c) idealist.  See, the more I read of Amber I realized that she is living in Acadamia.  She has spent the last 5 years in a college environment.  That's not a dig or meant to be condescending.  But she is living in an artificially created world/environment.  Real life often not touching acadmics and isn't this how we often look at the Prof's who work there, right?  Well ..... doesn't it follow that she may be living that life (sigh, I wish I was back in college .... goooooood times - well, minus the false rape charge - but I digress)  Amber DOES long for chivalry, but she also grew up being nurtured on her "rights".  Lets face it, how many MEN do we know, around us in our real lives who are COMPLETELY CLUELESS to how perilous their "life" is?  She hasn't had real life come a-knockin' at her door and pound her dreams to dogsh*t.  And, being female, there are many perils she won't face.  Again, many of our male friends are just as clueless ... so let's realize where someone is coming from.

3) We men NEED to include COUNTER VIEW POINTS in our discussions.  For one I don't want to emulate our Feminazi goosestepping moron enemies, and for another, we cannot afford to insulate ourselves from outside views.   This is EXACTLY what the NOW'ers and Feminazis have done and it's starting to bite them in the ass.  I can't wait 'till they choke on it, but I sure as sh*t don't want to copy their WEAKNESSES.  Smoke that over on the mental barbeque.

4)  Amber is cute.  :twisted:  (man o man I couldn't resist -- I will get flamed from both the ProAmber and the KillAmber crowd --- God I love being difficult)

5)  Guys, in all seriousness, we need to keep our heads, and have a consistant course of action.  This includes letting people we don't like have a voice, and, protecting that voice, as we all have been silenced by the PC scumbags ourselves and we didn't much like it.  

6) I am gonna catch some serious flak for this one: THERE IS a lot of whining that is going on with the MRA's.  Mea Culpa on that too.  I know I love coming here and venting.  Don't y'all?  But, that being said, we, again, should NOT learn the "victimspeak" of the Feminazis.  Will I decry unfairness?  At the top of my lungs and with all my intellect and with every surge of my heart.  Will I be silent when I see injustice?  Yeah, right, anyone who has seen my posts buy that one?  (lol, I am 1 step short of being Gonzo!! - lmao - I got some of his diatribes SAVED ON MY COMPUTER they are THAT freaking funny).  Point is, we are a growing and evolving movement.  We will pick up and discard bad habits and grow into our better ones.  We had better if we want to be taken seriously.

I know I may be the lone voice on this (with the surprising exception of Gonzo), but this is how I honestly feel.

With abiding respect,
---- L Steven Beene
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 17, 2003, 03:24 PM
I voted 'no' in the poll on MND.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 17, 2003, 06:27 PM
God this is hilarious.  The hate Amber club is, apparently, preparing to ban and/or kill me over on the MND forum.  

What exactly did I do?

My last 3 articles were

1)  The US is the world's liberator - an anti Chomsky article
2)  Experience Means Baggage - a pro marriage, anti-left article
3)  Morals:  The Anti Drug - a pro morals article

What exactly in there has anything to do with anything that they would get pissy about????????????  Unless they are a bunch of anti-war, anti-marriage, anti-morality dirtbags?

I don't even get their virulent hatred of me.  I wrote ONE article specifically targetted at the men's rights movement called Gender Healing.  EVEN ANGRY HARRY liked that article.  

Well, anyway, these guys are funny - and very irrelevant.  Below is the funniest comment.  

"Who is this Amber chick? Is she like the arch-enemy of Men's Right's? Damn...I've been involved in this thing called Men's Right's for awhile now and thought men were making headway. Are we really doomed now???
Is she even bigger than Hillary? How did I miss this??"
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 17, 2003, 06:39 PM
Hey Amber, if you read the guy's history you will see it is hyperbole.  He wasn't being serious - his point was more that these boards even obsess about such things in the first place, and that they should get back to talking about the subject matter.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 17, 2003, 06:51 PM
My age is an asset.  I'm well aware of this.  That is why I have a push right now to get my stuff published to the masses.  At 23/24, they can't start investigating my personal life to try and find dirt.  I don't have 3 divorces, 5 kids and 4 step kids under my belt.  If you are going to talk about sexuality, it is better to have a young, feminine woman doing it.  It's easier for a woman to do it than a man.  If a man is going to do it from an Objectivist angle, he had better be quite a man.  He would have to be masculine, which actually, talking about sexuality, romantic love, etc., might compromise his masculinity in the eyes of the public.  And in fact I've seen just that.  I watched an Objectivist man try to talk about masculinity once - and he himself was a pussified wimp - and it totally didn't work.  

So far, the only people who harp on me about my age are, ironically, older people with BAGGAGE!  Older people's advice to younger people is disgusting.  My one young friend came up to me and older architects were telling him being an architect is tough work, it's not do-able ... give up now.  And this is taken as "maturity," the height of "wisdom," - a oh-so-insightful bit of advice that men are impotent and life is hopeless. Sorry, but this isn't "MATURITY."  This is baggage.

I am  an idealist but not because I'm young; it's because I'm an Objectivist.  I may have been at a university, but I was still an engineering major, which is nothing to shake a stick at.  I also worked 20-25 hours a week to pay the rent.  I wasn't exactly a liberal arts major that did nothing except theorize about ideas all day - I was expected to produce results.  I worked with my hands; I worked on projects - it prepares young professionals.  It was one of the best schools in my field.  This is not a valid argument against me.  

Even if it was, it doesn't matter.  If you are going to throw out these random personal insults, like I am young, naive, and idealistic - back them up.  What is naive about me?  What is so Utopian and un-doable about what I say?  I know lots of older people that I've worked with on various things.  I ask them if they think I am naive.  They all say no.

Anyway, not a drop of this matters.  I only wrote for MND because Dan sent my stuff in.  I've thought about whether or not I should continue as I thought perhaps it might be better if people didn't have access to things I said outside of a professional editor, etc.  I mean ... if you think that stopping me from writing at MND is going to be the end of me or the end of my world, you're nuts.  I'm a little more resilient than that.

But whatever.  You guys need to get a life not to mention direction.  Maybe you could go boycott a feminist or something.  The fact that you hate me reveals just about everything about you.  The fact is:  I advocate virtue.  Yes, I do advocate virtue for men and women.  I have an entire article called The 21st Century Joan of Arc which advocates virtue in women and lambasts feminists for enabling women to become victims.  So go f*ck yourselves with the idea that I let women off the hook - I don't, you just wish I did so that way my message of virtuous men won't be so grating on your ears.  That's exactly what the men's movement is:  a bunch of guys who want to evade responsiblity and moral character, which is why they hate me so much.  

And you know damn well what I'm saying is true.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Amber on Dec 17, 2003, 07:10 PM
Quote from: "Sir Jessy of Anti"
Hey Amber, if you read the guy's history you will see it is hyperbole.  He wasn't being serious - his point was more that these boards even obsess about such things in the first place, and that they should get back to talking about the subject matter.



I know that.  As I said, they are wi/o direction and that guy nailed it.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 17, 2003, 07:12 PM
Definitely  not true for many men that post on these forums, and not true for myself.   For these men it is because they desire virtue that they are interested in what you have to say, and what you believe.  It is because they desire virtue that they're fighting for their rights and individual liberties in the face of feminist and legislative tyranny.  You are percieved as contributing to that tyranny when you slander men's rights activists without justification (data) for your position.

I will not argue that there is some victimism in the movement.  There is, in my opinion.  Many of us are not of that faction, yet injustice should be pointed out, as you yourself do with Iran.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Dec 17, 2003, 07:13 PM
Quote from: "Amber"
Quote from: "Sir Jessy of Anti"
Hey Amber, if you read the guy's history you will see it is hyperbole.  He wasn't being serious - his point was more that these boards even obsess about such things in the first place, and that they should get back to talking about the subject matter.



I know that.  As I said, they are wi/o direction and that guy nailed it.


See what a pretty girl can do?   :wink:
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Nichov on Dec 18, 2003, 11:21 AM
I don't know about feminist... but you're megalomaniacal... the only supporting evidence I feel I need is this thread that you started about you.
Title: Amber's club
Post by: Peter on Dec 18, 2003, 01:37 PM
To my astonishment I have noted that Amber's writings provoke wild argumentations and attacks. On MND someone even accused her of being a feminist that should be banned from MND.

Fortunately she seem to tolerate the attacks fairly well even if I guess that it must be stressing. Of course anyone who writes in a public forum has to take a lot of heat and has to get used to it. I perhaps would have given up and gone to another forum, if I had been attacked in the same way.

I find her writings mostly interesting usually well argumented. Sometimes I would have liked some more attentioin the differing views. Much of the time I agree with and sometimes not.

I do not quite understand what generates so much heat. Is it the envy of her writings skill, envy of the female verbals skills (clitoris envy)? Or is there a genuine disagreement? I think that if someone has a genuine disagreement he would concentrate  on the essay and provide some idea for improvement.

Personally I feel a bit guilty for not having given Amber more feedback and ideas to the articles she has presented to us.
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: Galt on Dec 18, 2003, 01:42 PM
<<Personally I feel a bit guilty for not having given Amber more feedback and ideas to the articles she has presented to us.>>

Why don't you point out to her what you agree or ... disagree ... with?
Title: Challenge to the hate-Amber club
Post by: The Gonzman on Dec 18, 2003, 01:46 PM
It's because a great deal of us HAVE tried to respond to the articles.  The Amber!(tm) reacts hysterically when her premises are challenged in any way, producing the litany of "Anti-woman, conservative hating, liberal, anti-marriage, anti-family meninist MRA."  These attacks are reflex.  Once the Amber!(tm) reads a disagreement with what she says, the rest of the missive is ignored.  She eschews any thoughtful dialogue on the subject, assuming that any such difference of opinion with her is done out of mean-spirited hatred of her on a personal level.

She then spews venom and hatred.  And is amazed when venom and hatred is the wages she recieves.

Don't believe me?  Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself.  Go to MND, read one of her latest articles, and use your throwaway SPAM account to question her pronouncements.  See what you get in response.