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Stand Your Ground Forums => Main => Topic started by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Apr 27, 2011, 05:02 PM

Title: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Apr 27, 2011, 05:02 PM
Are alcoholic mates incorrigible, even if they are young?  And if they have broken family issues that
even to this day contribute to their unresolved anger, and hence their propensity to abuse alcohol?

How many chances should one give, once they are beyond their breaking point, to a "loved one by choice" if they are an alcoholic?  Is one too many? Your opinions appreciated.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Captain Courageous on Apr 27, 2011, 05:53 PM
 :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

Do you mate with other men??

If you are "alcoholic", you have a disorder that will eventually kill you (per the World Health Organization and the American Medical Association - circa 1955).
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Apr 27, 2011, 06:11 PM
Oh, I see, the U.K. interpretation of mates.  No, "mate" as in in-ti-mate.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Captain Courageous on Apr 27, 2011, 06:24 PM
Are you certain it's not the navy's interpretation of "Mate"?

First Mate?

Bosun's Mate?
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Sir Jessy of Anti on Apr 27, 2011, 06:38 PM
Not really the advice I was looking for.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Captain Courageous on Apr 27, 2011, 06:45 PM
Is someone with kleptomania to be considered incorrigible?
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: neoteny on Apr 27, 2011, 07:38 PM
Some are, some aren't: it depends on the personality of the sufferer.

Apparently my father used to drink heavily before I was born; sometime around my birth (in his mid-thirties) he kicked his booze habit and never -- ever -- drank afterward. I remember him making moonshine: he would distill it three times and would get 140+ proof pálinka (Hungarian fruit vodka) and not drink a drop of it.

I used to binge drink up to my mid-forties; now I drink very rarely... and I can't recall when was the last time I got drunk (probably 4-5 years ago).

I've met boozers who seemed decent people, at least in the short run; and I've met alcoholics who are very nasty fucks and I suspect that they wouldn't be much improved even when sobered up.

The biggest problem with alcohol -- generally with depressants -- is that it is very hard to stop, and one can die trying to. Uppers -- meth, coke &c. -- ruin you much faster, but when you stop them, you just sleep a lot and get fat.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Virtue on Apr 28, 2011, 09:55 AM
Pretty much everything we know about addiction medicine is wrong....ANYONE can look at this and see ......if addiction is a disease that you cannot control then try this experiment.


Take the addict.....put their addiction of choice on the table in front of them (booze drugs what ever) Tell them that they can have their fix no strings attached if they can pick it up and use it......but tell them that when they reach for their fix your going to beat the shit out of them with a baseball bat......all the sudden they WON'T reach for it.

So they DO have control they simply decide not to exercise it, because they lack a motivation to do so......you standing there with a baseball bat in hand is GREAT motivation.


To get them to stop the destructive behavior with out your constantly present baseball bat.....they have to find a motivation of their own.



Until they do nothing short of brainwashing / torture will work.

Once they have a reason to not engage in destructive behavior they can drink just like everyone else.....none of this dry for life BS that AA preaches.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Virtue on Apr 28, 2011, 09:58 AM
Oh by the way.....AA, NA all of those addiction recovery methods......they all have one thing in common.

The success rate is right around 50%........which is the same success rate for people who quit on their own.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: neoteny on Apr 28, 2011, 04:13 PM

Oh by the way.....AA, NA all of those addiction recovery methods......they all have one thing in common.

The success rate is right around 50%........which is the same success rate for people who quit on their own.


This would be meaningful if alcoholics trying to quit were assigned randomly to do it either on their own or with the help of AA.

But if the AA-half comes from that half which couldn't quit on his own, then the benefit of AA is immediately apparent.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Captain Courageous on Apr 28, 2011, 08:06 PM
I've never seen so much virulent anti-AA and Anti-12 Step/12 Traditions propaganda in my life.

You may not like the format, but the claim it's some kind of a placebo is bullshit, plain and simple.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Cordell Walker on Apr 29, 2011, 01:09 PM
I hate alcoholics
they are quitters that go to meetings
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Galt on Apr 29, 2011, 02:26 PM

You may not like the format, but the claim it's some kind of a placebo is bullshit, plain and simple.


I think the claim is that people who drink can just stop.

And I think that's right, because I've seen it.

And that ABSOLUTELY goes against what psychologists and Very Important Dr. Phil-types and all the rest will say.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: neoteny on Apr 29, 2011, 04:22 PM

I think the claim is that all people who drink can just stop.

And I think that's right, because I've seen it once.


I've put in the implied words to show why the argument is faulty.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Galt on Apr 30, 2011, 01:22 AM
You're changing what I'm trying to say, Neoteny.

I've heard psychology types spout things pretty close to saying that no one can stop on their own. You have to put yourself in the hands of a psychologist.

That's what I'm disputing.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: bluegrass on Apr 30, 2011, 02:20 AM


You may not like the format, but the claim it's some kind of a placebo is bullshit, plain and simple.


I think the claim is that people who drink can just stop.

And I think that's right, because I've seen it.

And that ABSOLUTELY goes against what psychologists and Very Important Dr. Phil-types and all the rest will say.


I've seen a lot of alcoholics in my life and in my opiion there are two kinds:

-Those who drink because they have personality disorders

-Those who have personality disorders because they drink.

The latter can stop.  tThe former cannot.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: neoteny on Apr 30, 2011, 08:59 AM

I've heard psychology types spout things pretty close to saying that no one can stop on their own. You have to put yourself in the hands of a psychologist.

That's what I'm disputing.


No one here made that point and it has nothing to do with what you quoted from CC; apart from that, you're right.
Title: Re: Are alcoholic mates incorrigible?
Post by: Galt on Apr 30, 2011, 09:07 AM


I've heard psychology types spout things pretty close to saying that no one can stop on their own. You have to put yourself in the hands of a psychologist.

That's what I'm disputing.


No one here made that point and it has nothing to do with what you quoted from CC; apart from that, you're right.



So I was kind of right about something at least. I'm happy about that!