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Stand Your Ground Forums => Main => Topic started by: stands2p on May 19, 2006, 08:36 AM

Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: stands2p on May 19, 2006, 08:36 AM
Rosa Brooks writes regular articles on foreign policy and international relations and how Bush is a big meanie.  Today's entry is a hoot.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-brooks19may19,0,1191549.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

It's a shame Foreign Affairs requires a fairly spendy membership to read their archives because Fukuyama's original article is the shit.  He argues eloquently that one POSSIBLE outcome in international relations is that touchy-feely places like Sweden where farm animals and household pets can be sued for sexual harassment are going to be in no position to resist tanks and artillery from places where they still eat meat and belch in public.

She takes a well reasoned piece out of context (how can I get a job reviewing 8 year old journal articles) and buys into the fantasy that women will eventually make war and conflict obsolete.  She assumes Western men will become economically marginalized and no longer suitable for premeditated divorce (oops, I mean marriage) and excretes this gem:

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Maybe we'll find some creative solutions: a boom in global match-making, perhaps, pairing high-achieving "surplus" Asian men with Western women.


Riiiight, Asian men will be lining up, especially the high-achieving "surplus" ones, to open joint checking accounts with Maureen Dowd and her deeply conflicted sisters.  And never you mind that feminists are currently trying to legally complicate international marriages because they can't handle the idea of Western men finding happiness with...well, women.  Those laws can be re-written just as soon as the competition has been dealt with.

And wait just a minute, isn't she concerned that Western women will be marrying men from a culture that systematically exterminated women?  Maybe she reasons that since non-Western women aren't feminists, it was okay to exterminate them.  

She paints a rosy future doesn't she?
Happy Friday.

original article (intro only, fee required for entire article)
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19980901faessay1415/francis-fukuyama/women-and-the-evolution-of-world-politics.html
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: hansside on May 19, 2006, 08:57 AM
ah - the sexual fantasies of feminists
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: Thomas on May 19, 2006, 09:14 AM
This type of feminist tripe barely earns a yawn anymore. But the authoress did try, so she deserves something in return. I think I'll send her a nice flower.

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060515/capt.sge.sbc53.150506200817.photo00.photo.default-278x358.jpg)
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: SIAM on May 19, 2006, 09:56 AM
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In the developed world, there's more to cheer about. Because increased opportunity for women seems to translate into more prosperous and stable societies, what's not to like -- unless you're Fukuyama -- about a future in which the power elite may look more female than male?

Given the declining number of men seeking higher education, perhaps it will soon be women who dominate public life, while men -- less educated and less productive -- will be relegated to the sidelines.


Ahh yes.  Let's cheer if men are pushed to the sidelines.  Via whatever cause.  It doesn't matter.  If women are succeeding, it's champagne corks.  If they are failing, it's time to get your victimhood on.

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But a shortage of men -- even just a relative shortage of men with the skills that lead to high earning power -- can be as destabilizing as a surplus of men.


What happened to the wage gap? I thought the Patriarchy had that covered! I must have missed yet another memo.  Have we lost our earning advantage suddenly?

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Will all those undereducated first-world men of the future go contentedly home to change diapers while their high-powered wives run the world?


I'm thinking SE Asia, Eastern Europe.

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Or will they engage in still unimaginable forms of global mischief?


Well, there's fun to be had.  There's also plenty of good women to meet and marry too.  I'm talking about non-feminist women in non-feminists countries. Plenty of women who are actively looking for the western men you are throwing onto the scrap heap.  There is a global match-making phenomena happening right now Rosie - you just got the genders/nationalities in reverse - it's western men and Asian women.  

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Maybe we'll find some creative solutions: a boom in global match-making, perhaps, pairing high-achieving "surplus" Asian men with Western women.


Now that is funny.  Here's what's actually happening: rich Asian guys marry beautiful young Asian women. He isn't lacking - there isn't a shortage for such a guy.  In any case, I'm honestly trying to remember the last time I saw a Thai guy with a western girl.  Same with my experience of Japan - just not seeing it - the very odd occasion, but a real rarity.  That leaves the poor Asian guys, of whom there are plenty.  So some hot-shot female lawyer from Chicago is going to fly to Ubon Ratchathani in the poor eastern part of Thailand to look for a young Thai husband who makes $5 a day? :loll:  H'yuh, right.  Ain't happening - ain't gonna happen.  The funny thing is : if it did happen, what's this female lawyer going to do? Live in the US with her Thai hubby? Oh man, he's gonna love the way the divorce courts work - he's on a meal ticket whatever happens (along with his family back in Ubon).  OR, she butches it out in Thailand? No way no day.  How can she? She wouldn't hack the 'backward' way of life. She's a feminist and she knows her rights! I'd give such a marriage about 9 months at the very very most.

This Rosie is dreaming feminist dreams. Meanwhile reality is taking place all around the world.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: Mr. Bad on May 19, 2006, 10:19 AM
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In the developed world, there's more to cheer about. Because increased opportunity for women seems to translate into more prosperous and stable societies, what's not to like -- unless you're Fukuyama -- about a future in which the power elite may look more female than male?  Will all those undereducated first-world men of the future go contentedly home to change diapers while their high-powered wives run the world?


Not likely because the high-powered western women won't settle for a husband who doesn't pull-in at least as much $$ as she does, thus, there won't be a man around to change the diapers.  After all, how many women - western or not - do you know that 'marry down?'

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Or will they engage in still unimaginable forms of global mischief?


I think the mischief will be much more local.  For example, unemployed, underserved, unappreciated and marginalized men with nothing to do will roam the streets looking for somebody to beat and rob (because women have all the jobs, etc.).  You know, gangs.  But not like the Sharks and the Jets from West Side Story - we're talking Crips, Bloods, etc.  There won't be enough cops to keep tabs on them, nor enough jails to house them.  And I certainly won't be intervening on behalf of women to stop them.  In fact, I think I might rather enjoy sitting back and watching, the way western women have watching while feminists have been destroying us.  

I doubt that feminists have even thought about the old saying "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."  Clearly they don't "get it."

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Maybe we'll find some creative solutions: a boom in global match-making, perhaps, pairing high-achieving "surplus" Asian men with Western women.


Like IMHO says, that's funny.  Western women are already the most despised people on the planet (while western men are still by and large greatly admired), yet they think that Asian and other men will come knoking on their doors?  LOL!  Asian men are smart, and like us they know that when it comes to relationships, marriage, etc., western women are more often than not  'damaged goods.'
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: FP on May 19, 2006, 11:08 AM
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Maybe we'll find some creative solutions: a boom in global match-making, perhaps, pairing high-achieving "surplus" Asian men with Western women.


I don't necessarily think she's wrong here, just not thinking things all the way through. If only because China is reportedly having a shortage of women to men. At which point, those surplus men might be looking for wives and I doubt they'll be too keen on adopting the western princess' ways over their own (and we all know how pliable many western princesses are when it comes to money anyway..) As well historically, what happens when you have a large surplus of men who likely won't be able to find a wife and start a family, a lack of resources etc.? Wars happen.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: fratstar on May 19, 2006, 03:10 PM
In India & China a lot of poor people have women children aborted due to economics or 1 child policies.  So there will be/is a problem with the gender raitios in certain poor parts of those countries.  However,  I just dont see the 160 lbs 5'8" female laywer shacking up with a 5'8" 150lbs Asian guy that doesnt even earn minimum wage.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: Setaseba on May 19, 2006, 05:32 PM
Quote from: "FloorPie"
Wars happen.


thank you floorpie

and there you have the entire history of humankind and the driving force behind it

dumb male mammals killing themselves and each other competing for the attention of the females

whacking each other over the head so that the little woman and her kids will have a roof over theirs

just like the noble elk who spends 6 months getting ready to compete to reproduce and then dies of starvation in winter 'cause he burned off all his built up resources trying to bonk some doe who wouldn't have had anything to do with him any other time of the year and doesn't have any use for him now that she's got what she wanted

biology sucks
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: typhonblue on May 19, 2006, 07:34 PM
Not to throw a fly in the ointment but... I've seen quite a few asian man/white woman pairings up here in the great white north.

And as for a western woman flying over to thailand to get a husband who makes 5$ a day... what's the difference between that and a western man flying over to thailand to get a wife who makes 5$ a day?

How is the one empowering for a man but *disempowering* for a woman?
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: Setaseba on May 19, 2006, 07:48 PM
Quote from: "typhonblue"
How is the one empowering for a man but *disempowering* for a woman?


because i would wager that most men don't give a damn how much his intended earns as long as she doesn't rub his nose in it

can you say the same about women regarding the income of a suitable mate?

i find women to be far more pragmatic when it comes to the suitable candidate checklist
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: gwallan on May 19, 2006, 09:09 PM
Quote from: "typhonblue"
And as for a western woman flying over to thailand to get a husband who makes 5$ a day... what's the difference between that and a western man flying over to thailand to get a wife who makes 5$ a day?

How is the one empowering for a man but *disempowering* for a woman?

It's more that I simply can't see western women doing something like that. Their values tend to be too materialistic. Men are not looking for somebody to maintain their lifestyle for them when they decide they want kids.
If it's just a matter of sexual empowerment women can simply find a fifteen year old to root. There are no consequences.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: alien on May 19, 2006, 10:09 PM
Quote from: "Jimbo"
Quote from: "typhonblue"
How is the one empowering for a man but *disempowering* for a woman?


because i would wager that most men don't give a damn how much his intended earns as long as she doesn't rub his nose in it

can you say the same about women regarding the income of a suitable mate?

i find women to be far more pragmatic when it comes to the suitable candidate checklist

Can't say that I've ever heard a bloke say "I'm marrying down." It's just not on the radar. Could it be that men marry more for love than women do?
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: Malakas on May 19, 2006, 11:05 PM
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And as for a western woman flying over to thailand to get a husband who makes 5$ a day... what's the difference between that and a western man flying over to thailand to get a wife who makes 5$ a day?
typhonblue You're winding us up, right? I can't believe someone of your intelligence and experience doesn't see the difference.

Admittedly I've known a few rare instances where say, an Asian male doctor has met and married a western nurse but it's unusual. If you want the full stats, Joefin posted a link on one of the 'Foreign Brides' threads.

BTW The dismissisive mention of Francis Fukuyama was a typical bit of femi-rubbishing. He's not even openly anti-feminist. He's a serious scholar who backs up everything he says with a weath of data. In 'The Great Disruption' he merely spotted trends and extrapolated them. Compare his work with:
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Because increased opportunity for women seems to translate into more prosperous and stable societies
(Note the 'seems to').  Could it be that only prosperous and stable democracies can be exploited by feminists?
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: whome112 on May 20, 2006, 12:56 AM
Quote from: "typhonblue"
Not to throw a fly in the ointment but... I've seen quite a few asian man/white woman pairings up here in the great white north.

And as for a western woman flying over to thailand to get a husband who makes 5$ a day... what's the difference between that and a western man flying over to thailand to get a wife who makes 5$ a day?

How is the one empowering for a man but *disempowering* for a woman?


True, there are a great many asian/white pairings here and it works well with both sexes. The point at hand though, is these pairings are "just plain Canadian folks." Such pairings are ordinary Canadians who happen to have different genetic backgrounds; they have the same or very similar social backgrounds. These relationships are very common in Canadian cities and work well mostly because of the same social background, the same Canadian expectations.

There are far far more men willing to ignore wages and earning capacity than there are women willing to so do. It creates an imbalance.

The average Joe doesn't care too much one way or the other what his wife does for a living: He can go for the high roller or the janitor without much thinking. The average Jane on the other hand does indeed care about what he makes and what he does.

The above doesn't say that there are not exceptions to this rule: There most certainly are and in both directions. For the average though, this does apply.

whome
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: contrarymary on May 20, 2006, 02:35 AM
Actually, I've seen many white men with beautiful Asian women, but I've never once seen an Asian man with a white woman.    I am beginning to think Asian men would rather die than be with a white women.  I will take your word for it that there are Asian men/white women couples, but I've just never seen it.  I have also seen a fair number of American men come into the store with Russian women.

I'm in love with a WASP, btw.  And he's just beautiful.  So this is not a personal issue, but rather an observation.  I am also, while always friendly and open to everyone until they prove they can't be trusted, very jealous of Asian women because they are so beautiful and I feel like a fat clumsy cow next to them, and I'm not even fat (but I am clumsy) and I include the Indian women in this category.  Still, it doesn't irk me that white men marry Asian women - not at all.  I've found that some men do like clumsy, short Italian-American women with freckles - and that one, in particular, has made me very, very happy.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: Sir Galahad on May 20, 2006, 03:57 PM
All feiminine societies are eventually subjugated or annihilated by masculine societies.  Just look at the Roman Empire.  In it's early days, Rome was very masculine, where decadence was shunned and the army was made up entirely of citzens of Rome.  Compare that to the decadent Rome of the third century on, where most Roman men became "civilized" and shunned military service (among other things) and embraced luxury and depravity.  It was at this time that Rome was overrun by the masculine "barbarians".  Another good example from histroy is the Peloponnesian War, where the undeniably macho and warlike Sparta crushed the effeminate Athens.  This is why Western society is doomed.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: whome112 on May 21, 2006, 01:26 AM
Quote from: "Sir Galahad"
All feiminine societies are eventually subjugated or annihilated by masculine societies.  Just look at the Roman Empire.  In it's early days, Rome was very masculine, where decadence was shunned and the army was made up entirely of citzens of Rome.  Compare that to the decadent Rome of the third century on, where most Roman men became "civilized" and shunned military service (among other things) and embraced luxury and depravity.  It was at this time that Rome was overrun by the masculine "barbarians".  Another good example from histroy is the Peloponnesian War, where the undeniably macho and warlike Sparta crushed the effeminate Athens.  This is why Western society is doomed.



Welllll, sorta, almost, kinda ...

It's a lot more complex than that.

One could easily restate it as:

- "societies in which the role-model women lose their modesty are crushed by societies which maintain their modesty."

This would by equally accurate and yet at the same time be missing a lot of the factors which go into a social failure.

The real key is most likely something to do with the behavior of the leaders in relationship to a perfect-model growing and healthy society. In a growing and healthy society the leaders subsume much of their personal life to the welfare of the society. In a failing society the leaders play games and have fun while ignoring their roles as leaders.

Mind you, one must go further than just looking at the leaders; one must also look at the behavior of the middle class. A growing and thriving middle class is essential to a growing and thriving culture.

One must also look at the behavior of a culture's neighbors. Even a very strong culture will be inundated by a violent culture, one bent on conquest at any cost.

Plus, we now know that there have been thriving full-matriarchies in our past. We also now know why those matriarchies failed. We also know why the classic matriarchies such as the Six-Nations failed (a classic matriarchy has the women choose which men run the tribe. a full matriarchy has the women run the tribe.)

Moreover, there were no more feminized men than the Victorian pater-familias, that is the Victorian middle class male. Yet, the British maintained the most powerful empire to ever exist and maintained it for quite some time.

There's too many factors to make a straight up case for any one of them.

whome
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: SIAM on May 22, 2006, 04:30 AM
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Not to throw a fly in the ointment but... I've seen quite a few asian man/white woman pairings up here in the great white north.


Well as whome has pointed out, I bet 99% of these couples are Canadians and Canadians.  Now I base that opinion on my own experience of 2nd world countries.  You just don't see a western woman with a local man.  I saw a FEW in Japan (literally), and perhaps that is so because Japan is a rich country (really it's first world).  In SE Asia, as rare as hen's teeth. As for the opposite (western guys/local women) - some days you walk around Bangkok and you feel like it's one big  dating joint for western guys.  

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And as for a western woman flying over to thailand to get a husband who makes 5$ a day... what's the difference between that and a western man flying over to thailand to get a wife who makes 5$ a day?


In my opinion, it's easier for men to revert to more traditional roles than for western women - who would see it as 'backward' and 'submissive' etc (whether they are or not - the word 'traditional' is pejorative term to many women now). Men aren't looking for money in a women - for men, beauty is the currency.  They also aren't looking for someone who is going to cause them grief.  A feminist would immediately say "ahh yes, you want somebody submissive"  - well, I think that's going too far.  I just mean someone who you can have downtime with, not compete with - somebody who doesn't complain and nag  - someone who has never watched Oprah - someone who doesn't know about feminism (ulitimately!).

To sum up my answer : men don't care much about the money - they care about looks and an easier time in a relationship.  Women look for the money and prospects, with an eye on controlling the relationship. This is why Bangkok has so few examples of the Asian man/Western woman partnerships you see in Canada.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: typhonblue on May 22, 2006, 12:59 PM
Quote from: "contrarymary"
Actually, I've seen many white men with beautiful Asian women, but I've never once seen an Asian man with a white woman.


In my experience it's more the other way round. While I've heard white women praise the looks of black men I've never heard them praise asian men. However I *have* heard asian men praise white women.

I've read a bit on the phenomenon of inter-racial dating... particularly from the angle of asian men and black women. A lot of asian men feel they are low on the dating totem pole (same with black women) and can't *attract* a white woman. Thus when asian women go off with caucasian men they get nervous about attracting a wife.

As for asian women nagging less and being more passive then western women... I haven't seen that in my experience and I've spent months in asia since I was a girl. In fact the only time I ever saw a woman throw a glass--not the contents, the GLASS-- at a man was in a bar in Hong Kong. They were an asian couple.

And, having been taken care of by phillipinas... I can say they too can be domineering. But then my experience is probably different then that of a rich white man taking a vacation in the phillipines.

On the other hand... attractive asian women also tend to be less snotty and bitchy to me then attractive white girls.

Finally, my husband's first girlfriend was Malay and Chinese, raised in asia, and it sounds like she was brutal. Selfish, self-involved, impatient, abusive, slutty... er... I know I only have his side, but even if what he says is only half true, yikes! For instance, how rude to keep a list of all your boyfriends and the monetary amounts they spent on you (gifts and such) and compare each new boyfriend to the old ones in terms of "generosity", applying liberal doses of shaming when the "generosity" wasn't sufficient? Ugh...
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: contrarymary on May 22, 2006, 01:47 PM
Quote

In my experience it's more the other way round. While I've heard white women praise the looks of black men I've never heard them praise asian men. However I *have* heard asian men praise white women.  


OMG, I love Asian men.  I particularly like Indian men.  I guess I just like men.  But dark skin is so nice.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: SIAM on May 22, 2006, 06:54 PM
Quote
Quote
Actually, I've seen many white men with beautiful Asian women, but I've never once seen an Asian man with a white woman.



In my experience it's more the other way round.


Well I guess Canada is different to Thailand, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, most of mainland Europe, and other countries I've visited where seeing white women with Asian guys is extremely rare, but Asian women with caucasian guys is common.  I'm not making this up - it's just an obvious thing I see when I walk around - I'm very sure my perception isn't being 'selective' here.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: typhonblue on May 22, 2006, 07:26 PM
Quote from: "IMHO"
Quote
Quote
Actually, I've seen many white men with beautiful Asian women, but I've never once seen an Asian man with a white woman.



In my experience it's more the other way round.


Well I guess Canada is different to Thailand, Japan, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, most of mainland Europe, and other countries I've visited where seeing white women with Asian guys is extremely rare, but Asian women with caucasian guys is common.  I'm not making this up - it's just an obvious thing I see when I walk around - I'm very sure my perception isn't being 'selective' here.


You misquoted the context.

I was responding to contrary mary's belief that it is asian men rejecting white women. From what I've read it is the other way around.
Title: Western males obsolete, wealthy surplus Asians wanted
Post by: SIAM on May 22, 2006, 10:13 PM
Well, CM's quote you highlighted is pretty unequivocal - she's talking about instances where you see white women with Asian men.  You then respond with "In my experience it's more the other way round." and then move tangentially onto a related, but different issue.  I just thought you meant that you normally see Asian men with white women and rarely see the opposite.