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Topics - Sosiologi r

Could somebody please help me find solid facts and references on this topic? So far all of my references are unscientific as the referred source is "Department of Justice" (with no additional spesifications) or "Two guys from University X doing their thesis".

That kind of references do not provide me means to check the facts myself.

I need to build is a list of references in which there is a name of the researcher, name of the publication or statistic and page number in which the fact was originally presented.

Main / Bipolar gender system oppressing men
May 14, 2005, 09:24 PM
According to the feminist frame of reference the bipolar gender system does not oppress only women but also men. I am curious to hear from you, whether you consider this as a potential factor uniting feminists and the men's right activists. Below are some examples of this oppression. Men are expected

- to pay costs on dates, being a supporter of the woman

- to be ready for sex all the time as that is the stereotype of men

- not to feel pain, for example, when being hit to face by their female mate

- to provide a nice looking house to their family and therefore, to work very long weekly hours

Some concepts also are loaded with patriarchal ideology and gender stereotypes. For example

- romanticism is "defined" as an action from men to women and as a consequence, it is only a dream of many men to be treated romantically by their women

These were just a couple of examples of the oppression of men by the bipolar gender system. Could the analysis of these problems and pressures be a uniting field for feminists and men's right activists?

PS. You might respond that "There is no need to unite feminists and men's right activists". However, you could see this as an opportunity to "beat the feminists using their own weapons" - e.g. using the theory of patriarchal ideology and bipolar gender system.
Let us assume "gentle rape" as an action in which a person who lives together with his/her partner (or is staying over night with a new aquaintance in the same bed)  is seduced or pressured to sex when he/she is not mentally willing - but is physically ready enough so that the intercourse is possible and not painful.

I believe that according to this definition a lot of men have been "gently raped" by women. I would be curious to hear how common this kind of rape is.
Main / Domestic violence once again
Apr 25, 2005, 09:10 AM
Hello all,

I am a bit disappointed. I have seen so many "statistic lies" and so few people who want to find something as solid facts and unbiased interpretations. Everybody just seems to be promoting their own agendas. To be specific, I am disappointed with the majority of men's right web sites and feminist web sites.

For example, men's right activist web sites try to prove that "women are as violent towards their partners as men are".

Most feminist organizations, on the other hand tell the following lie: "31% of women have experienced violence from their partner... and 90% of the victims of domestic violence are women".

Both of these statements are "statistical lies" that are created by biased definitions and omittance of disturbing counterfacts, to promote a political agenda.

So where is the truth? Below is my collection of pieces of facts that I have found from research reports:

1) Men inflict notable physical damage to their partners more often than women do. For each "moderately or severely" injured man, there are 4 injured women.

2) The proportion of women who have suffered moderate or severe injuries in their relationship due to domestic violence is about 8% x 40% = 3,2% and the proportion of men is about 2% x 40% = 0,8%.

3) Women and men are almost equally aggressive if non severe and less injurous violence is taken into account (slapping, kicking, pushing, biting, nailscraping, etc.)

4) The proportion of women who have suffered from domestic violence is about 40% and the proportion of men is about 40%.

I am not completely sure these statistics are the truth. However, I would surely be interested in finding the truth - without mixing into political agendas.

PS. Please, do not stereotypisize me as an evil men's right activist or a evil feminist. I am just searching for facts and for the true equality of the sexes.

Edit: Corrected the figures in points 1, 2 and 4 + edited the characterization of non severe violence in point 3.
Main / iFeminism
Apr 17, 2005, 07:29 AM
The so called "iFeminism" popped up to discussions in the Brotherhood thread. However, I believe that it deserves a full chain of its own. I posed it as an example of "equality movement" which could possibliy unite men and women into the same organization. Maybe I am wrong - maybe the feminists and men's right activists are too far away from each other.

Please, check the quoted ideas of the iFeminists, though:


Individualist feminism, or ifeminism, advocates the equal treatment of men and women as individuals under just law. The core principle of individualist feminism is that all human beings have a moral and legal claim to their own persons and property. It is sometimes called libertarian feminism.

Affirmative action laws:

Sometimes the inequality works to women's advantage, as in affirmative action laws. Do you oppose them as well?

Absolutely. Equality means neither privilege nor oppression.

Gender war:

By the late 20th century, government cemented gender hostility into society by assuming a paternalistic role that advantaged women at the expense of men (e.g., affirmative action).

Pornography and prostitution:

...ifeminism embraces radical civil liberties. For example, ifeminism calls for the decriminalization of prostitution and pornography. To an ifeminist, there is no schism between economic and civil liberties. They are both expressions of an individual's right to use her own body and property in any peaceful manner she chooses.

Rape, violence and child abuse:

When a person has sex with another person consensually and later regrets it, that does not constitute rape in an reasonable sense, and nobody should be punished for another person changing her or his mind about a choice she or he made.

... we must recognize that the alarmism of mainstream feminism often blows problems way out of proportion and reports them out of context. It is true that some men abuse. However, the vast majority of men do not abuse, and most women are not at risk of abuse by the men in their family. Furthermore, studies also show that this is not a problem of male violence as portrayed by mainstream feminism. Rather, women perpetrate violence against their children and spouses at rates that are at least comparable to those of men. This is not to say that abuse is not a significant problem. It just isn't the problem that mainstream feminism portrays it to be.

Scientific facts:


Much of the "research" cited in support of the claims of mainstream feminists is politically rather than factually based. The only way to really judge a scholarly work is to look at it critically.

Philosophical background:

Individualist feminism and libertarianism are similar in that both philosophies uphold individual freedom and personal responsibility as core values.  

Men and women in cooperation:

The original goal of the feminist movement was to achieve equal rights for women and men. By ignoring or supporting injustices to men, mainstream feminists have abandoned that goal. Ifeminism embraces men as partners in the struggle to eliminate injustice against women, and we support them and join them in the struggle to eliminate injustice against men as well.

Father's rights movement and masculinists:

[quote}Inasmuch as these movements promote equal rights for men and women, we stand together with them. However, we stand opposed to extremism in these movements (just as we oppose extremism in feminism) which detracts from that goal.

Female overpower:

People generally do not thrive when they have little or no control over their lives. This is as true of men as it is of women. Were men to be systematically controlled in such a manner, we would see a dramatic decline in the technical, artistic, social and other accomplishments and advances that men have contributed to human civilization since the birth of humanity. Moreover, women would lose any claim to moral decency as well as the respect of men. While it might satisfy a few power-hungry monsters, stifling the creativity and intellect of half the population would not be beneficial for the vast majority of women. (back to top)

Women's studies programs:

Women's studies programs are a good example of why universities should not be publicly funded. Many people find that their tax dollars are funding poor scholarship and dissemination of offensive and inaccurate information in the name of women's studies. It is likely that such disinformation would have a hard time taking hold in a marketplace of ideas.

for more, see
I am doing research on the inequal treatment of men.

Does anyone of you know good scientifically valid sources that prove how the government or mass media mistreat men?

So far I have sufficient sources that prove the mistreatment of men in custody, family violence and incest trials. Now I would like to find scientifically valid studies of the misinformation and "man hatred" feed that is flowing through governmental bodies. Yes, I know the phenomenon but can not find strong enough scientific evidence.

If you can not name direct sources & studies, even contact information to international male studies scientists and mailing lists would be appreciated!
Main / Equal availability of free time
Mar 13, 2005, 08:01 AM
According to Eurostat, the central governmental statistics organization of Europe, there are big differences in the availability of free time for women and men. However, the results vary highly from country to country. This proves incorrect the feminist hypothesis of "patriarchal hegemony" that would exist in all western countries.

- - - -

When analysing the equal availability of free time to women and men, the most significant target group are parents with children. That is because this target group has usually big debts and a lot of household work related to the children.

The next step is to define "work". In the contest of equal usage of time, I have counted together the following forms of work as they all equally are to the benefit of the family:

1. Gainful work
2. Domestic work
3. Studying for a degree
4. Voluntary work (which in these statistics is mostly reciprocial work for relatives or neighbors, and therefore can be counted as "work for the family" as the relatives and neigbors will give back services)

In countries like Estonia, Romania and Hungary women with children (at least one child less than 7 years) work daily about 2 hours per day more than their husbands. That seems to be a sign of inequality. It is based on the old Soviet culture in which men and women were supposed to work outside the home - and after that the women are supposed to do almost all of the household work and child care during the evenings.

In countries like England, France and Belgium the fathers of children tend to work daily about 1.5 - 2 hours more than their wives. This is probably due to the fact that there is no public day care, which forces a large majority of women to quit work when they have children. As the social benefits for mothers are so small, women often stay out of the labour market. As a result, women tend to work less for the family compared to their husbend who do hard work building a career and preparing for an early death due to stress and heart diseases.

In countries like Finland and Denmark the work effort of the sexes is very equal. In Finland men with children have one minute per day more free time than their wives, on average. In Denmark men with children work about 5 minutes more daily than their wives, if I recall correctly (sorry, my data is at my work place - I will include it here later on). This equality is based on the laws that guarantee a day care place for all children until they go to school. Women have a very long maternity leave, with good benefits. Due to that they do not have to quit their work when they have children. Finnish schools offer a proper lunch to kids, on contrary to the English and French schools. This reduces the child care burden from parents as they need not prepare extra food for the kids. These are just a few examples of the way the welfare state operates in Scandinavian countries.

One Scandinavian country, however, is an exception. In Sweden men with children work daily 35 minutes more than their wives. This can not be explained by the same mechanisms as in England and France. Sweden is a Scandinavien welfare state with high support for two career families.

The only explanation for the inequal situation in Sweden, for me, seems to  be the fact that the Swedish feminists have been extremely active and aggressive in their project of presenting women as victims and men as "exploiters". The feminist members of the Swedis parliament have announced pamphlets with headings such as "Can we afford men?" based on the logic that (almost all) men are violent and highly prone to improper activities such as usage of prostitutes and even, incest.

So, Finland and Denmark are the most equal countries of Europe, when counted in the availability of free time for fathers and mothers who have small children. However, I am afraid that we will become more and more "Swedish" in this respect, unless the true proponents of equality get politically activated.

PS. I would be very curious to hear these same statistics from USA and Canada.
Introductions / Hello from Finland
Mar 11, 2005, 11:46 AM

I am a Finnish social scientist. I got interested in equality issues when I constantly encountered feminist women in web forums, and got into arguments with them. Finally I found that I was not alone with my feeling that too many feminists are not searching for equality of men and women. Instead, they have replaced the goal of equality with the goal of women's liberation from the patriarchal hegemony, which they define so vaguely that they may change definitions and arguments whenever they feel so.

I would like to publish some research results here, comparing statistical data from several different countries.

Also, I am interested in searching for the new male role models. I need this kind of models for myself but also from a theoretical perspective.

I am willing to discuss these topics on the Main section of this forum.