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4. Although I approve of equal protection, and of this ruling, it's frustrating that the MRA movement -- which is so much more dedicated to attacking feminism than to helping men -- ever gets what it wants. Many or most DV services were initially created by feminist work and activism; MRAs have done none of the hard work involved in creating this network. Nor is the MRA movement fundraising to enable DV programs affected by this ruling to add services for men without reducing services for women, or lobbying to increase funding for DV shelters. In short, the MRA movement is a leech movement; MRAs sue to change systems feminists (mostly women) have built, but they don't contribute positively to those systems.
This is, I think, part of what Renee was talking about in her post on Woods v. Shewry.
But when I look at the bigger picture, MRAs are irrelevant. It's not the fault of male victims who need help that MRAs are leeches, and the worthlessness of the MRA movement can't justify denying services to someone because of their sex.
Our new study debunks the myths surrounding the opt out story, and details the ways in which women do not opt out - more often they are pushed out of their jobs by inflexible workplaces, failures of public policy, and outright workplace bias
NAOMI WOLF: Yeah, sure, fine, I would write it differently. There was a time to be - to see the world as us versus them, black and white. 'The Beauty Myth' is true. Everything in it is accurate. But, the process of growing up is a process of learning nuance and seeing things more holistically. So, I think my kind of voice has become gentler, I hope not less interested in social justice, I hope not less confrontational about injustice, but possibly gentler in looking at the big picture. I'm a mum, so I think I might have been a little bit less polemical, but I hope not less outraged. My next book is a sequel to 'The Beauty Myth'. It is about how teenage girls are being sexualised and commodified by marketers.
Over at her blog, Mary has a rant about being a heterosexual feminist in a world where men just don't get it:
QuoteSo yeah, it sucks and it's hard blah blah blah fishcakes. And I'll never be the girl who does anything for a man, and I'll never be that girl who thinks her man can Do No Wrong, for He Is Man. That'll suck some of the (twisted, unhealthy, movie-style) "romance" out of your life. And maybe I'm worse off for not being able to feel that way, for not being able to "love" in that sense. Except I'm not. I expect more from my partner, and he will give it to me, or I will walk away. I expect respect and consideration, and he will give it to me, or I will walk away. I expect thoughtfulness, and he will give it to me, or I will walk away. I expect a man to have as much anger at the patriarchy as I do, and he will show it to me, or I will walk away. He will prove to me that he IS the exception, or-you guessed it-I will walk away.
Since I'm mostly confined to looking at men as potential parnters at the moment, I am really feeling her pain. I've never been the "normal" kind of girl. Even when I believed in the concept of "true love", I was never into that romantic bullshit. I always thought it was off, and when I was with my first boyfriend I finally understood why: because it's about abuse and control, not love and partnership.Even when I find a guy who genuinely likes women -- a rarity among heterosexual men, unfortunately -- that doesn't mean he likes a girl like me.
It's annoying, but at least I have a great life going for me. A partner would be an addition, not the thing that makes or breaks my happiness. Yay feminism.
QuoteDid anyone even read the title of this thread?
Right from the title, I asked for CONCRETE examples of discrimination. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear enough about what that meant, but instead of rushing all over yourselves to attack me personally, you could try giving me the benefit of the doubt and assume that by "concrete," I meant "real-world effects, not just words." Which is what I did mean.
Instead of "concrete" examples, what you all are complaining about is words. I realize that the wording of parts of the law isn't gender-neutral. That is unfair. But a difference in wording is not a "concrete" discrimination, when it doesn't translate into any actual difference in treatment in the real world.
Here's what you folks are saying, as far as I can tell:
1) It doesn't matter if the law is nonsexist in application. The only thing that matters is if the language of the law isn't absolutely inclusive; what happens in the real world, apart from the language, is irrelevant to us.
2) It doesn't matter if I present a documented example of a woman being arrested under VAWA for crimes against men. Since your reading of the law, based on ignoring how the crimes are defined in the definitions section, says that crimes against men are ignored by VAWA, therefore crimes against men are ignored by VAWA. The fact that people were (before the Supreme Court overturned that portion of the law) arrested under VAWA for crimes against men is irrelevant, because facts are not relevant.
3) It doesn't matter that VAWA has funded research looking at both male and female victims of crime. Your ideology tells you that VAWA never funds any research which includes male victims; if the facts contradict your ideology, the facts must be mistaken.
I've been at this forum for a while and have enjoyed it -- there have been some good discussions here.
That said, I plan to go down in flames with this post and may be banned afterward, but so be it. I just hope Ampersand and a few others get to read it before it's pulled. I'm going to do something here that I don't normally do on fourms or in discussions like this. I'm going to personally attack you, Ampersand -- you and the people like you.
You, sir, are a bigoted, sexist *** and I hope that someday you have a family with a woman who kicks your ass, takes your kids away from you, and indentures you for twenty years. I also hope she falsely accuses you of DV and that you're sent to prison and raped so that maybe you won't look at men raped in prison as a mere rhetorical abstraction anymore. Normally I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but you deserve it -- because of how much of a bigoted, sexist *** you are and how much pain *** like you bring to the world in the name of your twisted ideologies. I'd only feel sorry for your kids.
CONCRETE example? Beyond simply attacking you, I suppose it's only fair to open myself up personally. I've never talked much about it here for personal reasons, but now I will.
I'm married to a woman who is abusive and violent, but I stay to protect a little four year old girl. Our daughter. In the ten years we've been together I've endured black eyes, the destruction of cherished possessions and near total loss of a personal social life. There's a lot of reasons I ended up in a relationship like this and I don't make excuses -- it's my life and I've brought it here. There are a lot of reasons and guess what Ampersand -- not a single one of them has anything to do with any stupid fucking mythical patriarchy!
It's not that I haven't considered getting out. I have. It's not that I haven't tried to get help. I have. You see, *** , that's where the CONCRETE example of your discrimination lies: the result of the VAWA is a near total lock on the paradigm of DV in the mental health and justice communities. THERE IS NO HELP EVEN FOR THOSE WHO SEEK IT BECAUSE OF BIGOTED SEXIST *** LIKE YOU.
In total I've been to four counselors and every single one has only made matters worse -- for her anyway, not so much for me. For me, it's opened my eyes to personal resonsibility, however too late.
The first time I went to start talking to lawyers was when our daughter was two. I was simply trying to get away from an argument before it turned ugly and rather than let me leave, she laid our two year old little girl on the driveway behind a running car so she could perpetrate her sickness. Another time, she threatened to run me over with a car, locking up the wheels in a screech with the front bumper just six inches from the backs of my legs. EVen after that and similar instances, four highly experienced matrimonial lawyers felt I didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of gaining custody -- even though I'm as much of her caretaker as my wife is (I state that because I know you'll have some lame argument about who might spend one more hour per week taking care of the kids as to why that's fair). Oh yeah, and the counselor said something to her like, "Hmm you seem to have some issues around cars. You've been a little out of control with cars twice now in the past month."
Hey *** , are you seeing the irony yet? *** like you push this shit in the interests of women, yet there's a four year old woman at risk because of *** like you!
Words really can't express how angry *** like you make me, Ampersand. It all seems so academic to you I'd guess. I"m kind of disappointed actually that even as a person who loves words as much as I do, the best I can come up with is "***" and "***."
But I honestly hope that as such a vocal accomplice of bringing pain into the world that someday that pain is visited back on you -- because you deserve it. That's not intended in any way to be a threat. But sometimes Karma does happen.
Brad, Wendy and everyone else -- it's been nice and maybe I'll see you around some other boards if Brad (justifiably) bans me. But sometimes kamikaze missions are warranted.
In closing, I'd just like to reiterate my main points in case I wasn't clear: Ampersand and people like him are ***, and do untold damage to our society and help to perpetuate huge amounts of pain. *** you, Ampersand. You suck.
[edited out the personal attacks, dr e]
THANK A FEMINIST
If you're female and...
...you can vote, thank a feminist.
...you get paid as much as men doing the same job, thank a feminist.
...you went to college instead of being expected to quit after high school so your brothers could go because "You'll just get married anyway", thank a feminist.
...you can apply for any job, not just "women's work", thank a feminist.
...you can get or give birth control information without going to jail, thank a feminist.
...your doctor, lawyer, pastor judge or legislator is a woman, thank a feminist.
...you play an organized sport, thank a feminist.
...you can wear slacks without being excommunicated from your church or run out of town, thank a feminist.
...your boss isn't allowed to pressure you to sleep with him, thank a feminist.
...you get raped and the trial isn't about your hemline or your previous boyfriends, thank a feminist.
...you start a small business and can get a loan using only your name and credit history, thank a feminist
...you are on trial and are allowed to testify in your own defense, thank a feminist.
...you own property that is solely yours, thank a feminist.
...you have the right to your own salary even if you are married or have a male relative, thank a feminist.
...you get custody of your children following divorce or separation, thank a feminist.
...you get a voice in the raising and care of your children instead of them being completely controlled by the husband/father, thank a feminist.
...your husband beats you and it is illegal and the police stop him instead of lecturing you on better wifely behavior, thank a feminist.
...you are granted a degree after attending college instead of a certificate of completion, thank a feminist.
...you can breastfeed your baby discreetly in a public place and not be arrested, thank a feminist.
...you marry and your civil human rights do not disappear into your husband's rights, thank a feminist.
...you have the right to refuse sex with a diseased husband [or just "husband"], thank a feminist.
...you have the right to keep your medical records confidential from the men in your family, thank a feminist.
...you have the right to read the books you want, thank a feminist.
...you can testify in court about crimes or wrongs your husband has committed, thank a feminist.
...you can choose to be a mother or not a mother in you own time not at the dictates of a husband or rapist, thank a feminist.
...you can look forward to a lifespan of 80 years instead of dying in your 20s from unlimited childbirth, thank a feminist.
...you can see yourself as a full, adult human being instead of a minor who needs to be controlled by a man, thank a feminist.