This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
Oh, just pass the popcorn, already. I find it hard to take either group seriously.
The problem with the feminists is that they won everything a reasonable woman could wish for when Title IX and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act were passed. Instead of turning to publicizing ways people could use their rights, they chose to dig up more grounds for "victimhood," and most reasonable people left the movement.
I know when I left. I was in a doctor's office while I was in law school, and saw a copy of Ms magazine. At one time, I read every issue as it came out. But it had been years, and I'd been busy. An article about child custody drew my attention because I was taking Family law, and so had recently become accustomed to the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act. I happily set down, to find out all the ways this Act could be used, and how a clever woman could protect herself and her children.
There was no mention of the Act, and no decent advice anywhere in the article. The article was nothing but a bunch of whining about how tough life was for a woman, with no mention at all of the very real tools that had been put into place, or how to use them. I never read Ms again.
At the same time, the Men's Rights movement was just getting started. I could see how men might actually want to see their kids, and maybe even want custody. But that was not what Men's Rights was all about. It always boiled down to reducing their child support and alimony payments. Like the family law judges, I learned to ask "What relief do you seek?" The answer was always "reduce my payments."
We live in a glorious, free country, where any adult is free to arrange their life as they see fit. Yes, men have rights. Yes, women have rights. But anybody bothered enough about the limits this society places on their rights because of their gender is, in my experience, just a little nuts.
I am taking your post at face value and wish to respond to you in a reasonable way, and not just flame you.
I am an MRA. Why? Because I was falsely accused of rape in college - twice. At different colleges it was my misfortune to date two very different women. One a perpetual victim, who I stopped seeing and who, 7 months later, decided that she needed a dramatic story to get attention - and the other who decided that for my daring to stop dating her she'd "teach me a lesson".
I am also an MRA because I believe in PARENTS (to include fathers) rights. Not because I was some guy denied access to my child, but because I am a man, who was a child, who was denied a loving and nurturing relationship with my father because my mother (whom I do love dearly) decided that punishing my father by denying him access was more important than the damage such a move would do.
I am an MRA also because I can't stand double standards, which feminists are ALL about.
What do men have happening that would be a legitimate set of grievances? That's a fair question.
1) Men die, on average, 7 years earlier than women, and there is an office for Women and Girls' Health, but none for men.
2) Men use healthcare services, EXCLUDING pregnancy and reproduction, on average, 40% less than women, but we are mandated, by law, to pay the same premiums - we are subsidizing women's health care - again, even though we die 7 years earlier.
3) Education is geared to how girls learn, and boys are being left behind. In high school graduation rates, in rates if prescriptions for "hyperactivity", and in programs to engage students - girls/women are the focus.
4) Almost 60% of incoming university freshmen are women - and no one cares young men are being disenfranchised. But there are numerous initiatives, programs, and women-only scholarships to give women "a leg up" in many fields - but none for men.
5) Men's universities were excoriated and forced to TRULY open up to women - while the "7 Sisters" colleges admit a token amount of men to these Tier 1 schools - and no one cares.
6) More than ***40,000*** men's sports teams have been disassembled under Title IX - but programs that are female friendly/centric have never had this applied. Generally, men like sports more than women - but all the programs that women like more (whatever they may be from college campus to campus) never face federal lawsuit Title IX challenges.
7) Women-Owned-Businesses are granted special protections and tax breaks, and get preference in contracts - is that equality?
95% of work place deaths are men - and that EXCLUDES the military. No national "Office of Mens and Boys' Health" exists, nor does any feminist seem to care. MRAs do.
9) Over 90% of the homeless are men. If this were reversed it would be a national topic, but tell me the last time (if ever) you saw a news story that highlighted the plight of the homeless that spot lighted the fact it's almost all male.
10) Women do not have to register for Selective Service, but there are set asides in the military so that women get a certain cut of the glamour jobs (pilots & command). So women do not have to go to combat, can fight (but only if they want to), and are given short lists for advancement when they CHOOSE to do this. Must be nice to be able to opt out, or get fast tracked.
11) Male children and men who are raped can, and often ARE sued for child support. Yep, they get sexually molested or sexually assaulted and are then made to pay to their sexual abuser - under the threat of prison. The ONLY debtors prison we have in the U.S., outlawed by the Supreme Court under the Anti-Peonage Act, is for child support.
12) Men who are provably not the father, DNA tests have come a long way, can still be obligated for 18-21 years of "child support" for a child they had nothing to do with conceiving. Women on the other hand can utilize safe haven laws, adoption laws, and abortion - but we talk about "deadbeat dads" and you'll never see a TV special or a national discussion about "deadbeat moms who walk away".
13) Men basically have the choice at hitting 18 - work until you save enough to retire, or starve. For women there are many more options. In case you think I'm exaggerating - you can Google this - of the women who graduated from Harvard Business School in 1980, 1985, & 1990, less than 15% are working full time. Women who were / are the "go-getters" who competed to get into one of the most elite business schools in the country, and of THAT group, less than 15% are working full time, in their PRIME earning years. Must be nice to have that option - men don't.
14) Women initiate over 65% of all divorces - and let's be frank here - you don't initiate a legal proceeding in which you know you'll end up the loser. Women get custody over 80% of the time, and while not paying for child support can land you in jail, denying visitation is a deliciously wicked and satisfying way to hurt your spouse for which you'll almost certainly face no real punishment. That's vile - and while it does happen to some women (and it's equally evil no matter who is doing it) the majority of parents alienated from their children are men.
15) Men being drunk and having sex makes them a predator - women being drunk and having sex makes them a victim. In no other area of law is this blatant divide solely based on gender so glaringly obvious and abused.
16) Women and men who commit the same crimes are often not charged with the same offence, women are allowed to plea to far lower offences and then besides that they get a steep sentencing discount for the same crime.
These are some serious issues - going from childhood to the grave, from education to prison, from healthcare to legal set asides in all stages of life. MRAs have issues with feminist legal initiatives because those programs & initiatives are blatantly bigoted and, largely, never talked about in our society.
Give it some thought.
Read this post.
"When I was a freshman, my sister was in eighth grade. There was a boy in two of her class periods who would ask her out every single day. (Third and seventh period, if I remember correctly.) All day during third and seventh period she would repeatedly tell him no. She didn't beat around the bush, she didn't lie and say she was taken--she just said no.
One day, in third period, after being rejected several times, he said; "I have a gun in my locker. If you don't say yes, I am going to shoot you in seventh."
She refused again, but right after class she went to the principal's office and told them what happened. They searched his locker and there was a gun in his backpack.
When he was arrested, some of my sister's friends (some female, even) told her that she was selfish for saying no so many times. That because of her, the entire school was in jeopardy. That it wouldn't have killed her to say yes and give it a try, but because she was so mean to him, he lost his temper. Many of her male friends said it was "girls like her" that made all women seem like cockteases.
Wouldn't have killed her to say yes? If a man is willing to shoot someone for saying no, what happens to the poor soul who says yes? What happens the first time they disagree? What happens the first time she says she doesn't want to have sex? That she isn't in the mood? When they break up?
Years later, when I was a senior, I was the only girl in my Criminal Justice class. The teacher, who used to be a sergeant in the police force, told us a story of something that had happened to a girl he knew when she was in high school. There was a guy who obviously had a crush on her and he made her uncomfortable. One day he finally gathered up the courage to ask her out, and she said no.
The next day, during an assembly, he pulled a gun on her in front of everyone and threatened to kill her if she didn't date him.
He was tackled to the ground and the gun was taken from him.
When my teacher asked the class who was at fault for the crime, I was the only person who said the boy was. All the other kids in the class (who were all boys) said that the girl was, that if she had said yes he would've never lost it and brought a gun and tried to kill her. When my teacher said that they were wrong and that this is what is wrong with society, that whenever a white boy commits a crime it's someone else's fault (music, television, video games, the victim) one boy raised his hand and literally said; "But if someone were to punch me and I punched him back, who is at fault for the fight? He is, not me. It's self-defense. She started it, so anything that happens to her is in reaction to her actions .It's simple cause and effect."
Even though he spent the rest of the class period ripping into the boys and saying that you are always responsible for your own actions, and that women are allowed to say no and do not have to date them, they left class laughing about how idiotic he was and that he clearly had no idea how much it hurt to be rejected.
So now we have a new school shooting, based solely on the fact some guy couldn't get laid, and I see men, boys, applauding him, or if they're not applauding him, they're laying blame on women as a whole. Just like my sister's friends did. Just like the boys in my Criminal Justice class did.
This isn't something that's rare. This isn't something that never happens, or that a select group of men feel as if they are so entitled to women that saying no is not only the worst possible thing a woman can do, but is considered a form of "defense" when they commit a crime upon them (whether it be rape or murder-as-a-reaction-towards-rejection).
Girls are being killed for saying no to prom invites. Girls are being killed for saying no to men. They are creating an atmosphere where women are too scared to say no, and the worst part is? They are doing it intentionally. They want society to be that way, they want women to say yes entirely out of fear. Even the boys and men who aren't showing up to schools with guns are saying; "Well, you know, I wouldn't do that, but you have to admit that if she had just said yes ..."
If you are a man and you defend this guys' actions or try to find an excuse for it, or you denounce what really happened, or in any way lay blame on women, every girl you know, every woman you love, has just now thought to themselves that you might lose your shit and kill them someday for saying no. You have just lost their trust. And you know what? You deserve to lose it."
Ok - I have to take serious issue with this 'story'.
"some of my sister's friends (some female, even) told her that she was selfish for saying no so many times. That because of her, the entire school was in jeopardy."
WHERE is the news article about this?! Because when I see stories like this - and they are, sadly, not uncommon, what I read from both men and women is "what a loser" comments. The FEW comments asking "what did she do to piss this guy off" are met with almost universal scorn and repudiation.
The story goes on to say:
"He was tackled to the ground and the gun was taken from him.
When my teacher asked the class who was at fault for the crime, I was the only person who said the boy was. All the other kids in the class (who were all boys) said that the girl was."
I have a very, VERY hard time believing this account. Guy walks into a classroom and threatens a gal, and is tackled - and people blame the girl. Then why did anyone tackle him? Where were the calls of "oh, for crying out loud, just date him." ?!
Not sure where this 'story' came from, but to try to assert that a room full of people, who were facing a possible school shooting, were all instantly "Stockholm Syndrome'd" and instantly identified with the shooter is beyond belief.
And this - THIS is the over the top part that showed me that this 'story' had come from the mind of some very angry anti-male individual who was writing a script for Lifetime and not re-telling an actual event:
"they left class laughing about how idiotic he was and that he clearly had no idea how much it hurt to be rejected." <- - - Give. Me. A. Freaking. Break.
And then the whole "men got together at some secret meeting and planned this campaign of terror plot" patriarchy theory quote is just ridiculous:
"They are doing it intentionally. They want society to be that way, they want women to say yes entirely out of fear."
Men are individual people - not some amorphous blob. We have sisters and wives. We have mothers and daughters. And making up some grade B Lifetime movie plot to "illustrate a point" that indicts all (or most) men is vile.
A very small percentage of men do this - and the vast majority of men excoriate such actions. Most men want to be heroes to the women in their lives.
***LOOK AROUND YOU - at the men you know - which one of them, specifically, are you going to point to and say "YOU would do this." Not so easy to call an actual person a deranged killer is it? But, that's the point - this story is crap - it has a whole "us versus them" mentality that dehumanizes the male gender and makes us into potential serial rapists and murderers.
A very small percentage of women who can't "get the boy" then falsely accuse him of some vile crime to "teach him a lesson" - but I don't blame all women for that. I don't make up some patently ridiculous anecdotes to "show a larger truth" (whatever the hell that is).
Violence within dating relationships is very real - and we, as a society need to address it in every generation and to teach mutual respect and how to accept rejection with grace and class.
This "story" was almost certainly untrue, and it paints a sexist picture of almost all men with a very ugly brush, and does little to address the issue.
Both men AND women do horrible things to each other - we can play the "but yours is WORSE" game all day long and accomplish nothing - OR - we can teach our young folks to have values and ethics and to know mutual respect.
I hope I added to the discussion.
Kathy J. Bell Of course it "hits close to home" : you're a bigot. Replace men with blacks, or Muslims, or [anyone else] and your bigotry is clear as day. Only in our PC world where attacking men has been normalized could you state and believe what you wrote.
You write some smirky bigoted comment, and lol at your own "cleverness" - instead of taking a breath and taking stock that you are so bitter and lost in a world of your making (in your own head) as to not say "hold on, if I were to refer to any other group like this I would be, rightfully so, excoriated"
Men AND women do bad things - it does not however give you the authority to make sweeping generalizations as some kind of expert, when in reality you're spewing open bigotry.
Just because some bigotry is currently in political and social fashion, does not make it ethical, right, or just.