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Messages - natalie clifford barney
1
As I thought... figured I'd take a peek in this morning, the reaction is predictable.
I transitioned a long while ago... and virtually everyone I know is completely accepting, even my best friend growing up, who is more man than any two of you, confident in who he is, no need to scream "I'm a tough guy," sensitive and understanding, yet with more physical strength than most men... being a mason tends to have that effect.
Most men are ok, but have a hard time understanding... women wrap their minds around it easily, and it is here the differences are most telling, and it is why you will struggle into the future unless you change your outlook. You don't have to change on my account, you are no hindrance to me. Some men have the capability of intelligence, but too often they leave it behind, in favour of gathering together and insulting anyone who happens to work for being more accepting and understanding, something this world needs more of, not less.
Thank you for reminding me such petty people do in fact exist in this world. You could not debate me with facts, you had to resort to personal issues, nothing like coming in here and totally taking out your arguments in one brief flurry.
I expected more intellectual debate, and got the thinking of 13 year olds. No wonder you bitch about women, none of you could convince any to spend their lives with you.
2
It's been fun, y'all...
methinks you would all fare better excepting everyone as equal and letting it go at that, nothing complicated to this. Women aren't out to take from men, to trap men, to do anything dastardly to men. If men don't wish to marry, don't marry. Most women end up disatisfied by marriage, simply because many men don't connect on the same level.
When I transitioned, the most profound difference is the depth of friendship between women as opposed to between men... there are many many layers to the connection between women, the ties run deep... the woman next to me in that pic, a very dear friend originally from the Lincolnshire area... is tied into my soul, and she is a friend, not intimate partner.
Men are capable of this, but it takes tearing down your walls. Unfortunately from what I've seen here, there is a whole bunch of resistance... it is ultimately your loss.
I shall wander away, it's obvious my input is neither desired or welcome... but for those of you who weren't sarcastic, who were welcoming, thank you.
Be well.
3
A former man being, or a man not being, a male to female transexual would not change the fact that as a man he would be at risk of having a knife being taken to his genitals and part of it cut off for no medical reason. This also does not change the fact that a woman, born in the West, has almost abosultely no chance of that being done to their genitals.
Um, I believe it was mentioned I was circumsised? And you are correct women in the west don't face this issue, but a whole bunch of women around the world do. It's brutal. And I've expressed support for ending the male variety, so we really have nothing to debate.
4
I am sorry, but I am a bit confused and I hope this is not inappropriate to ask, but does this mean you are actually a straight guy?
Noooo, I am a transsexual, which makes me a woman and a dyke.
5
Aww, ya blew my granny image! ;-)
As for my hair, it's slightly different now, though about the same length. Here is the full pic...
6
What you seem to forget is that the exact same thing is happening, except you are observing but two, and we are observing many. ;-)
7
Interesting website choice Natalie...
Thanks... Natalie was one of a kind.
8
If you wish to end circumcision, I'm totally with you... but please do not try to equate it with FGM, which is far more harmful and invasive.
It sure is a good thing you, as woman living in the West, had absolutely no chance of a knife cutting any piece of your genitals off for no legitimate medical reason.
Earlier today, a comment was made to me about "how would I know what it is like to have a penis... I let it go, it wasn't necessary to go into.
And now your comment. Well... it's like this. Yassee, I am a male to female transsexual, and I was circumcised at birth. And I also happened to have a vasectomy many years ago. And beyond that, I pay child support, $600 a month.
I've been where you are... the reverse is likely not true.
9
This girl is a hoot!
She is like the rhetorical equivalent of when you tried to get your girlfriend's bra off in the front seat at a drive-in in 1973!
Too much effort for too little reward......
Intellectually, that is.
(I was referring to a bad movie.... not the breastfully possibilities....)
If someone chooses to poke their friends and point fingers and chuckle about someone they perceive as different, in my experience that person is trying desperately to fit in, and deathly afraid they will be confronted over whatever fears lie within them.
It also likely means they have precious little insight to offer, or have nothing to put forth to add to a debate. I admire Russ for taking the time and effort to debate, to put his thoughts out here... once again, if this board is for male socialising, then I am intruding in your space, and shall leave. If it is debate, and you are truly willing to debate, dispense with the insults and put your ideas out here. I won't suffer this game for long, it is not my nature to even bother debating men on their own turf, so if all i continue to get are insults, then you shall have your wish, and I will be out of your space.
10
What do you wish to accomplish? Is it simply to stop feminism? Or is the goal a bit more altruistic and noble?
Who are you to say stopping feminism isn't altruistic and noble? :?
If you believe Valerie Solanas is the incarnation of feminism, why yeah, I can see why you would be a bit unnerved... but that is fallacy, trying to demonise femonism... powerful forces do not much care for change, even if it is to equality and nothing more.
11
This is tiresome, but here you go:
We are for:
- shelters and counselling for battered husbands
- rights of children and fathers to see each other after divorce
- equality under the law - areas such as Domestic violence, rape, child molestation, divorce proceedings
- equal respect for men and boys in the media, school, workplace
- equal funding for medical reseach of male illnesses as female funding (example prostate cancer vs breast cancer)
- ending circumcision
I could write a book. that is an initial sampling of what we are for.
Ok, so do you have anyone lobbying for shelters? Are you trying to organise and set one up in *your* community? It's a good and worthy goal, so hopefully you are taking action.
Fathers in the US by and large have joint legal custody unless there is compelling reason otherwise... for you in the UK, you do have some work ahead of you. And divorce proceedings are also quite fair in the US.
I don't know of anyone that disses a man for being a man, and goddess knows teachers work tirelessly to educate all in their charge. I would like to see more fathers present at meetings with teachers, most of the time it was predominantly the moms who are there. Be involved!
As for illness, the focus has been on men for moons, and women have only recently begun to get their due... for too long studies figured what applied to men applied to women, and we now know that is a major boo boo. I do believe we need to do *more* medical research, and that we should address such issues equally and comprehensively.
If you wish to end circumcision, I'm totally with you... but please do not try to equate it with FGM, which is far more harmful and invasive.
I'm not such an evil old witch, eh?
12
Political correctness is a form of fascism, it has its roots in Communism (and the industrialists behind it) and its power began with the feminist, black and homosexual movements tailored off of the Democratic party and has evolved into what it is today thanks mostly to lawyers and a corrupt legal sytem.
As Sister Mary Elephant would say "thank you."
In order for one to debate the issue, one first has to frame the issue to be debated. Your view of pc is quite a bit different from mine. Yassee, pc for me is about basic respect.. we don't put people down for skin colour, orientation, gender, religion, ethnicity...
yet you see it as fascism with roots in communism, a dichotomy if ever there was one. Not to say your idea lacks merit, merely stating a surface observation...
funny that black people, and homosexuals, and feminists are thought to have arisen based on a corrupt legal system, since it was a corrupt society that put them down to begin with. OK, I will grant some leeway in evolving from agrarian to industrial society, but for African Americans, surely we can blame society for how they ended up being considered less thans.
So why is it respect for each other is such a tough thing? Why is wishing for us to live together in harmony fascism? Is there something inherently wrong with African Americans, with women, with dykes that they cannot be a part of a greater society? How does my partnering with another woman adversely impact you?
I can tell you how evangelist Christians who seek to declare me second class citizens adversely impact me, but there is no corresponding reciprocation. And my issue with them ends when they leave me alone.
I would like to see the ridiculous racial divides end (we are all men and women, race is nothing more then isolated breeding groups and can be breed in or out at our leisure).
Thank you, then you are with me on part of this.
I want feminism to die its rightful death and for respect of sex differences and sex roles to return.
How so? What sex differences? Heterosexual intercourse requires one partner to have a penis, the other a vagina... but I don't think you use your penis at work... so genitalia is irrelevant in a work environment. If strength is needed, than strength is a requirement. I know of no woman that would argue against legitimate requirements... most I know in the military don't wish there to be separate standards.
Aside from sex, what requires sex differentation? Surely a man can parent as well as a woman, and both are competent in the workplace, so why this need? Why not let water seek it's own level individually? Not all men have desire to be macho dudes, nor all women housewives. Why can't each of us pursue our own dreams and interests?
A woman's primary role is mother/nurturer
A man's is protector/provider
Um, that is an outdated social construct. Now it may be you are comfortable in that role, and no problems there... do what works for you. Just don't impose that on others who see life differently. I'm a huge believer in each of us reaching our full potential, being all we wish to be. If this be your dream, and if someone shares it, fine with me. And we should make sure our young are free to follow their own path.
Culturally I would let the chips fall where they may for normal occupations with the understanding that men and women naturally choose different paths and have very different abilities. No quotas, no affirmative action, nothing but merit.
Affirmative action has it's place, though as time goes on they become less and less necessary. For the most part, women have made inroads into the workforce, but we still have serious issues facing African Americans, a systemic problem going back 150 years, because we didn't do it right then. We have a duty to find solutions, and yes, African Americans have a duty to find the solutions and work toward them. I'm an admirer of Nelson Mandela, who believes the way to go is through education, and indeed that is the case... but we have to help a culture that prides itself on education develop, and we have to see to it the tools are there... that class sizes are much smaller than now, kids thrive on individual attention... and by the way, this is the approach that will help young men refocus on education.
As for the death professions- military, police, and fire departments etc they should be exclusively all male for obvious biological reasons and should be celebrated as such with no apologies to anyone.
No way. It's that simple. You meet the qualifications, you're in, no gender restrictions in any way, shape, or form. Women are half this country, with a corresponding place in it, participatory or otherwise. Any new draft should be of men and women.
By the way, women are gaining ground on men in things like marathons, and I've seen some suggest that a time will come in the future when women might pass men in such events, because biologically they are predisposed to having more endurance. We are a ways away, but the differences have narrowed markedly in thirty years. And look at how far women have come in one generation of basketball, with no mentor network.
Our culture would be efficient and would reinforce male and female sexual identities. The union and complimentary relationship between men and women through our differences would enhance the quality of life instead of the chaos we have today.
That's pretty much where I come from.
I do thank you for taking time to share your views, this makes it a whole lot better than throwing water balloons back and forth! Obviously I disagree, but nonetheless admire you for putting in the effort.
nelle
14
My ability, or rather the lack of it, to dominate women has not changed.
Then my guess would be you seek something you never had. C'mon.. someone here has got to be willing to write an intelligent post about the issues men face.
15
...and that they are now your superior at work.
That's cool with me, I can work the shit out of a female boss. And don't give me that "female professionals don't let sex enter the workplace" line, because they do. Professional office setting or not...
SG
A little ego at work here?
