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Topics - Roy

Main / Is Divorce a Men's Rights Issue?
Jan 15, 2005, 06:38 PM
Don't know if this will be of much interest to esteemed SYG members...

I've just started reading an unlikely, fascinating book - "The Good Divorce," by Constance Ahrons, Ph.D. (Excerpt below...)

It's main theme is that divorce is here to stay, because something between 40% - 60% of all marriages end in divorce, that society needs to recognize the normalcy of "binuclear" families, that ex-spouses can overcome the social stigma and hostility divorce creates by focusing on what's good for the children ... that in fact, there can be "good" divorces.

(The book is well documented, and for the most part non-ideological, though the author only indirectly addresses men's and father's issues.)

So I'd like to ask members here at SYG what they think and feel about the issue of divorce as an aspect of the men's rights movement?

What do you make of the current "pro-marriage" movement, and proposals via legislation to make divorce a more difficult option?

What role, if any, does government have legitimately to play?

And (re. the quote below) why are women historically the "less satisfied party" in marriage, and the majority in initiating divorces?

And, how does feminism enter into this trend?

(From the book:  Trends and Projections - )

Demographic trends suggest that the current divorce rates in the United States are now fairly stable. Demographers predict that 40% to 60% of all current marriages will eventually end in divorce. Those who predict the lower rates say that the divorce rate will decline as the baby boomers age; that those boomers who wish to divorce have mostly already done so, and those that haven't are past the stage of life when the odds of divorce are highest.

Those who predict an increase, whether large or small, say that women's and men's roles will continue to change. That change, plus the increasing financial independence of women - historically the less satisfied party in marriage - will continue to push rates upward. ...

One factor that will help balance the rates is the reduction in the marriage rates. If fewer people marry, it reduces the potential pool for divorces. Women today have more options in life and more women may choose not to marry. Some women may choose career over marriage, may choose to cohabit instead of getting married, and may choose to parent without a husband.

As we have seen, women are waiting longer to get married and in so doing also limit their chances of marriage because of the "marriage squeeze," a shortage of eligible partners due to a declining birth rate. The percentage of thirty-year-olds who have never married almost doubled between 1970 and 1990.
This one, from the iFeminist site, is just chock full of ironies for the "gender wars" water cooler conversations....

Famous and talented comic Ellen DeGeneres and her new girlfriend (the lovely Portia de Rossi of Ally McBeal fame) are about to be sued by Ellen's former lesbian lover because Portia "stole" Ellen away!

Under an ancient law making "alienation of affection" a crime of theft, the spurned lover may seek major bank from both Ms. DeGenres and Ms. de Rossi.

One might expect major outrage from feminists, since "alienation of affection" dates back to the days when a  man could make a reasonable legal case that stealing his wife was a loss of property!

Dang. Just when we thought our enlightened feminized society had finally gotten beyond the objectification of women, famous lesbians have to resurrect the concept over a little love-spat...   :wink:

Hollywood lesbians in legal smackdown?
Former girlfriend of Ellen DeGeneres considers suing comic over new lover


The biggest lesbian names in Hollywood may play out their next roles in front of a real-life judge as the latest breakup of Ellen DeGeneres could be headed for a showdown in court.

The Sunday Times of London reports DeGeneres' former girlfriend is considering legal action against both the comedian and her new lover, "Ally McBeal" actress Portia de Rossi, "in a case that could redraw the boundaries of romantic strife in America."

The paper says 35-year-old Alexandra Hedison was reportedly shocked when DeGeneres, 46, asked her to leave the home the couple had shared in Los Angeles for the past four years. De Rossi, 31, moved in shortly before Christmas.

Alexandra, daughter of soap-opera actor David Hedison, is now said to be getting legal advice from the L.A. law firm of Trope and Trope, which has represented others stars including Cary Grant and Jennifer Lopez.
"Its lawyers have shown how she could seek revenge and riches with a 'twin attack' on the new couple," says the Times.

That so-called twin attack could include a palimony suit against DeGeneres, along with an action against de Rossi for "alienation of affection," a legal maneuver dating back to frontier days when seducing a spouse was considered theft.

"She would have to prove the seduction took place in those states which still recognize the law, like on holiday in Hawaii," Richard Barry, of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, told the Times. "If she can do that, she could cause a lot of financial damage."

In comments to the Advocate, a publication geared for homosexuals, DeGeneres explained, "When I said 'I love Alex, and I'm happier than I've ever been,' all those things were true, and I still love her and care tremendously for her."

"We are working together on the ending of our relationship on that level and intend to keep it private. And it's important to add that we have every intention of being in each other's lives."

DeGeneres continued: "Life is full of surprises, and no one knows what tomorrow brings. This is not easy, but we are really working on handling this in a healthy, private way. And it should go without saying that we continue to respect and honor one another. We both supported and helped each other through some very hard times, and that support is still there."

Hedison also expressed her ongoing feelings for DeGeneres.
"Even though this is a difficult time, I love her and will always want what's best for her," she told the Advocate.

DeGeneres reportedly met de Rossi, whose real name is Amanda Rogers, on a photo-shoot last summer. At that time, de Rossi was preparing to "marry" her girlfriend Francesca Gregorini, the daughter of actress Barbara Bach and stepdaughter of Ringo Starr. The couple broke up last month.

The split between DeGeneres and Hedison is not the only high-profile breakup for Ellen.

In 2000, DeGeneres called it quits with another Hollywood actress, Anne Heche, sparking a huge media frenzy.

DeGeneres went public with her homosexuality in 1997, coinciding with the same revelation from the character she portrayed on the ABC-TV series "Ellen."
The occasionally objective Christian Science Monitor seems to have been co-opted by feminists in its take on "Shrinking US Families..."

Complete article at --

Incredible shrinking US family

(Excerpts) ---

Newly released Census Bureau figures emphasize that over the last decades of the 20th century, the size of US families has shrunk - dare we say it? - incredibly fast. Since 1970 the percentage of households containing five or more people has fallen by half.

Meanwhile, the number of single and two-person households has soared. One demographic group that has increased particularly fast: single women between the age of 30 and 35.

Still, the Census did note that the proportion of young, never-married singles has increased dramatically in the US. That's particularly true for women of a certain age. The number of households consisting of single women 30 to 34 has tripled since 1970.

"The demographic trends that we are seeing are really quite dramatic, and are creating what I see as backlash," says Bella DePaulo, a psychologist at the University of California at Santa Barbara.

Ms. DePaulo sees a gap between the nation's actual demographics and the way society is reflected on TV, in advertisements, and so forth.

"There is this relentless glorification of marriage and coupling at a time in the nation's history when marriage has never been less important," says DePaulo.

Personally, I only see a relentless assault by feminism to destroy American families...
MSN is notorious for sprinkling "humorous" anti-male puff pieces throughout its site.

This one just posted today (text below) is representative of how "tongue-in-cheek" commentary is used to bash males.

While I fail to grasp the comedy, I fully appreciate the authoress's ideology.

High maintenance men

By Mama Gena

Dear Mama,
How do I spot a high maintenance man? I think the guy I'm dating may be high maintenance. Help!
- Worried

Dear Worried,
You know, a high maintenance guy is not nearly so much fun as a high maintenance gal. Where do I begin? From the way I take my tea, in a slightly warmed cup, to the manicures, the highlights... oh, I could go on. I think high maintenance women are really fun. Why? There is always something a man can do to add to our happiness, whether it's a new lip gloss, or a massage, or picking us up, rather than meeting us there. Now, frankly, I am not sure if you are talking about a man who is high maintenance, or a man who is difficult to train. In other words, if he has a lot of lovely little details he insists on for a high quality of life, like 400-thread count cotton sheets instead of polyester blend, that is not a problem. In fact, that will add, overall, to your quality of life. But if he always wants you to take care of him, or serve him, or do things for him, rather than the other way around, I would reevaluate him. He may be a training challenge.

The way a relationship works the best is when a woman is getting everything she wants. When a man serves a woman, the relationship flies. When a woman serves a man, the relationship tanks. So, if he is high maintenance, but willing to add to your happiness and make you happy, keep him! That's wonderful. And if he is high maintenance and selfish... never interested in you, or what you want, you may want to shop around and see what other men are out there. The bottom line: be fun! If you're having a good time with this man, even if he is a high maintenance training challenge, go for the ride. You can practice your training skills until a better one comes along!

Yours in training...

Regena Thomashauer  (Mama Gena), Creatrix and CEO of Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts, is the author of Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts and Mama Gena's Guide To Owning And Operating Men. She dedicates her life to researching the nature of pleasure and its relationship to health, well-being and overall fulfillment.

Visit Mama at
It's only fitting that DV Awareness month should culminate in a symbolic promenade of witches, goblins, poltergeists, vampires ... and the occasional Brittney Spears look-alike.

Every fraudulent social movement deserves to have its own holiday to be celebrated by a full-on masquerade!

With only two days remaining in the DV bacchanal, this article from the Australian paper The Herald Sun gives one pause to reconsider the seriousness of the cause.

Above all please note this quote from the esteemed director of the Victoria Women's Crisis Center:

"More and more we are seeing men charged with murdering their partners -- while relatively few women are actually murdered, thousands are threatened every day."

Now, I know grammar ain't everything, but taken literally (as these feminists would have their non-attributed statistics be accepted...), this suggests men are being charged with murder even when there's nobody found dead!

Also note the plaintive wailing that the court system is still biased against females.

Ah, well. Men are by now well accustomed to feminism's "Trick or Treat" version of reality.

(I've taken the liberty to bold words in the interview that allege statistical facts without ever substantiating a single statement... please note my implied disagreement with Ms. Cumberland's blatant attack on women's cognitive abilities...)

Fear women victims will be further alienated
Shannon McRae
29oct04 (Victoria Herald Sun, Australia)

VICTIM advocacy groups fear the Ramage verdict will further alienate women from a legal process they already feel estranged from.

Women suffering domestic violence could be further disenchanted with the legal process after James Ramage was found guilty of manslaughter instead of murder after he strangled wife Julie, said Rhonda Cumberland, director of the Women's Domestic Violence Crisis Service of Victoria.

Ms Cumberland said the Melbourne centre helped thousands of women each year who felt they could not rely on the legal system to protect them or to punish abusive spouses and partners. "It demonstrates how difficult it is for the courts to fully appreciate the extent to which women's lives are at risk in the family home," Ms Cumberland said.

"More and more we are seeing men charged with murdering their partners -- while relatively few women are actually murdered, thousands are threatened every day.

"It's really difficult for women to think that the justice system is there for them."

Ms Cumberland said many women felt the courts did not take threats made against their lives seriously enough.

"Overwhelmingly it's very unusual for the justice system to really deliver justice for women," Ms Cumberland said.

"Women find the courts totally bewildering, totally speaking a language they don't speak, and they don't think courts understand their experiences."

Noel McNamara, president of the Crime Victims Support Association, said verdicts such as the Ramage case could damage the resolve of women living in abusive situations who needed to escape.,5478,11218842%255E2862,00.html
Main / Catfight between N.O.W. and iFeminists
Oct 27, 2004, 05:22 PM
I subscribe to NOW's Press Release e-mail service... just to try to keep up with the "cutting edge" of superior feminist thinkers inside the beltway, plus it's usually sublimely unintentional satire.

But I overlooked this mid-October blurb that portends a major blowout between the true keepers of the flame at N.O.W. and the unsisterly heretics at the Independent Women's Forum (iFeminist).

Seems the gals at N.O.W. do not feel any iFeminists are needed to teach women in Iraq about democracy; nor should they receive any part of a $10 million grant to instruct Iraqui women about the true credo of feminism.

Gosh, what ever happened to N.O.W.'s "commitment to diversity?"

And sheesh.... who knew Wendy McElroy was hanging with such elite hoi polloi?

Anti-Feminist Group Awarded Grant to Train Iraqi Women in Democracy
Think Halliburton in a Skirt
October 15, 2004
by Kourtney Stamps, NOW Communications Intern

In a twist on the usual Bush giveaways to conservative allies, the State Department has awarded the explicitly anti-feminist Independent Women's Forum (IWF) part of a $10 million grant to help train Iraqi women for the upcoming January elections.

On Sept. 27, Secretary of State Colin Powell announced the Iraqi Women's Democracy Initiative and named seven different organizations that will use this grant money. "Each organization will work with Iraqi partners on the ground to prepare women to compete in Iraq's January 2005 elections, encourage women to vote, train women in media and business skills, and establish resource centers for networking and counseling," said Powell.

The participation of the IWF has raised concern among progressive organizations because of the group's ultra-conservative bent. And unlike the other organizations involved--such as the Meridian International Center, the International Republican Institute and the National Democratic Institute--the IWF is the only group with no experience in democracy promotion or international affairs.

The IWF has already denounced the Feminist Majority for criticizing IWF's involvement in the initiative. Michelle D. Bernard, senior fellow with the IWF, claimed, "IWF is part of a global community that seeks to be a voice in ending violence and discrimination against women and girls globally. Like it or not, we are here to stay."

However, Bernard's words are very different from the IWF's record. The group strongly opposed the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), has worked to weaken gender equity in education programs, and criticized the U.N. Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), in part because it would require participating governments to enforce laws assuring equal pay for equal work, maternity leave with pay and child care facilities for working mothers.

The IWF grew out of Women for Clarence Thomas, a group that supported the Supreme Court Justice against claims of sexual harassment during his confirmation hearings.

Today, the group claims its mission is to "combat the women-as-victim, pro-big government ideology of radical feminism." They have taken anti-feminist stances on a number of issues including affirmative action, welfare and Title IX.

They have also spearheaded She Thinks, a campaign dedicated to opposing the rhetoric of "radical professors" and "traditional campus feminism" at colleges and universities throughout the U.S.

Among IWF's founding members are Lynne Cheney, former chair of the National Endowment for the Humanities and the wife of Vice President Dick Cheney; Wendy Lee Gramm, former board member of Enron and wife of former Republican Senator Phil Gramm of Texas; Midge Decter, former co-chair (with Donald Rumsfeld) of the Committee for the Free World and one of the founders of the neo-conservative movement with her spouse, Norman Podhoretz; and Bush's Labor Secretary Elaine Chao.

"This is just another case of George W. Bush handing out money to his ideological buddies and campaign supporters," said NOW President Kim Gandy. "If the United States really wants to educate Iraqi women about issues as important as democracy and civil rights, the IWF is an embarrassing place to start."
I would like to propose that all the esteemed SYG moderators should immediately place their reservations for THE EXCLUSIVE MS. MAGAZINE CRUISE EVENT ...

see complete details at -

All the feminist luminaries will be on board, and can you imagine their terror, once out at sea, to find they cannot escape co-mingling with the likes of Dr. Evil, stevea, LSBeene, Sir Jesse of Anti?

Of course, the cruise program offers some respite from unrelenting confrontation... for example (from their advertisement...) --

this exclusive Ms. Magazine cruise event includes:
   Special Ms. sessions and programming
   Dining with guest speakers
   Music, film, and entertainment
   Private receptions
   Feminist land excursions
   All-inclusive pricing  

WTF! They can get OFF the boat? For "feminist land excursions..."!!!
Have the islands' natives been warned? Have the anthropologists been notified?

Oh, sorry. Further reading clarifies this just means "shopping..."

(Again, from MS. Mag's ad, re: PORTS OF CALL -- )

" Tortola, BVI

Tortola is an island you'll want to explore in a bathing suit and a sarong. The beaches are numerous, but if you must choose only one, make it Cane Garden Bay, snow-white and lapped by azure seas. Be sure to snorkel at "the Baths" on Virgin Gorda--a collection of boulders that nest in white sand and create an underwater labyrinth.

St. Thomas, USVI

Arguably the island with the best shopping and the best beaches. Shop duty-free Charlotte Amalie 'til you drop. Or dive into the beach scene at beautiful Magens Bay, Coki Point, or Turtle Cove, nesting ground of the endangered hawksbill sea turtle.

Half Moon Cay, Bahamas

If you've ever dreamed of making the first footprints on the beach of a truly secluded tropical island, you'll have your chance on Half Moon Cay, Holland America's own private island in the Bahamas. Swim, snorkel and sail till the beat of a steel-drum band summons you to the beach party and buffet. Cast off your everyday cares on sunswept beaches as you play the day away. "

WOW! The wild hedonist side of radical feminists has really not been given its fair share of mass media coverage!

This is FEMS GONE WILD!!! (Bring your video cameras for this one!)

Apparently they all covet the same consumerist fantasies as the average Dick and Jane.... in between serious lectures about the Evil Patriarchy.

From this MS. Mag cruise promo, I have learned that rad fems like to -

- explore half-naked in sarongs (obligatory 3rd World solidarity garb --
this should be a boon for the Caribbean textile industry, as we're talking a lot of yards of fabric for this particular entourage... even 50% naked...)

- explore underwater labyrinths where they can get lost
(Swim up, young maid, swim UP ... toward the bright light!)

- shop 'till you drop and avoid paying those nasty US taxes
( Money they'll no doubt pay to their Jamaican maids back home...)

- intrude upon the mating habitats of endangered sea turtles
(They only lay eggs... it's not like we're killing baby turtles...)

- despoil previously untrampeled virgin beaches
(Sounds like gender-colonialism in-the-making!!!)

It's distressing that the only veiled reference to males (other than the sea-turtle dads watching their spawn being snuffed out by feminist snorkelers) is in the quote about the "beat of the steel-drum band.... summoning..." But I'm sure the gals at N.O.W. all grasp the nuances.

Anyhow, this event has the makings for a once-in-a-millenium collision of the best and brightest at opposite polarities of the gender wars!

I also encourage veteran members like Galt, nebulousome, Bilbo, Dan Lynch, Gonzokid, and (oh, this would be choice...) Amber ...

to book reservations soon!

Can you imagine what would happen if Lecture # 3 turned out to be Dr. Evil speaking on the contradictions of women's and men's experiences in this enlightened age of post-feminism?

Lifeboats away! Women overboard! Save the men!   :wink: