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Messages - Roy

Fatherhood is being redefined and "enhanced" by this Australian feminist researcher who wants men to be "assisted to accept the obligations of fatherhood in a more informed way..." particularly if he is not the sperm donor who actually fathered the child.

(In essence, this piece argues that when you look up the definition of "cuckhold" in Webster's dictionary, it will read "antiquated term no longer permitted; see total victory of feminist DoubleThink (also deleted and incorrect.)

The so-called "research" is an exquisite example of feminist logic --- blaming men who feel a tad bit uneasy about having to support children that they did not sire, and at the same time exonerating women who practice paternity fraud because the oppressed gals experience "moral panic."    (That's gotta be the funniest feminist stand-up line yet! As in -- "my thong got way too aggressive and I felt some moral panic!)

This may be the loopiest piece of feminist research ever, but I guess that means it predicts what's coming next in the never-ending assault against men and fathers.

If anyone at SYG can explain what the research offers for men and dads, it would contribute to a very thankful post-Thanksgiving week-end.

(Just a few titillating excerpts; link to complete piece below ---)

The behaviour of women who society charges with infidelity and sluttishly having more than one partner - while posing in the community as "good" wives and mothers - is depicted as morally indefensible. Turney says: "They encapsulate not only female sexuality out of control but also a view of women as predatory, deceptive and instrumental." ... (duh?)

The difficulty is not the return of DNA results that show a social father is not a biological one, but the return of such results to a man who did not know there was any doubt about his partner's sexual fidelity and his genetic paternity. The trouble is the discrepancy between what men believe is the case about their partner's fidelity and genetic paternity, and the reality. ... (Feminists have never been big on cognitive dissonance, another Evil Patriarchal social construction...)

What all this should make clear is that the current child-support payment system, which assigns payment obligations on the basis of biological paternity, not parenting commitment, is tragically flawed. Regardless of whether the father suspected, knew or had no idea that the child he was parenting was genetically unrelated, and notwithstanding however culpable his female partner's behaviour was in creating that situation, the law needs to recognise and affirm men's value to children as parents - and people - not sperm donors. ...  (This woman may well be the best ideological propagandist since Joseph Goebbels!)

Of course, rejecting mandatory paternity testing at birth does not mean that men should not be assisted to accept the obligations of fatherhood in a more informed way. Upon the birth of a child, men ought to be given the opportunity to give one-time-only non-rescindable consent to their acceptance of the rights and responsibilities of fatherhood. If they feel unable to sign on the dotted line without conclusive proof that they are the biological progenitor, they should be offered a DNA test free of charge. ... (Oh, free is always good! But wait....)

However, once a man does formally accept social and legal responsibility for a child - either with knowledge of their genetic paternity or in the face of a fully informed waiver of that knowledge - their status as the child's legal father should rightly be set in stone. No DNA skeletons rattling out of the cupboards at a later date should affect what they legally owe their child or, hopefully, how they feel about the kid who calls him dad.
(Ah yes! Feelings will now become legally mandated under the new VAWA '05 order!)

Enjoy the full dimensia at --

Secrets and lies
By Saturday essay, Leslie Cannold
November 26, 2005

Or link from Men's News Daily's "Sex and Metropolis" column at --
Main / Humiliation or Effective Discipline?
Nov 25, 2005, 08:37 PM
Since I'm now facing a female shitstorm of worthy interrogations...

Just please cut to the chase....

What do you (wymynnzzz) feel/think/prescribe?

For bringing all these gender wars to a mutually satisfactory conclusion?

Assuming that you all want mutual gender universal bliss?

Please, just lay it out.
Main / Humiliation or Effective Discipline?
Nov 25, 2005, 06:52 PM
Sounds like you think women have higher expectations of themselves than men have of themselves.

Well, no.

I believe (some/most?)  women expect nothing of themselves....

other than that they evolve into excellent predators.

But then, I guess that's a kind of virtue?
Main / Fred Reed writes about Maureen Dowd.
Nov 25, 2005, 06:36 PM
Just me, I think Maureen Dowd is protecting her bank account by not marrying at this late date in her life/career.

She is an ironic gender-switched example of the men she covets.... an old chick with a big, big checkbook.

She has become what she desires but can't have ....... it's tragically funny!

(Unlike her silly NYT columns.)
Ikkaneg, errr.... ICanEgg...

We have different perceptions of what's "common" behavior and what isn't, IMHO. When I have multiple experiences that are opposite of what you say is "common behavior," then I consider what you say to be the exception, and what I experience to be common behavior.

I am very much in debt to you IK for answering my initial question --- "Is it possible to have a relationship with a feminist?"

Thank you.

You have indeed proved that it is possible.

Unfortunately, you have also proved that it is futile, painful, and without any redeeming future.  :lol:

Well, except for narcissists or masochists.... or  ????

(My guess is people who like to wear silly hats.....)
Factory ---  
Ifeminism is simply a rear guard action...of sorts...

Indeed, precisely.

Wendy and her ilk have your rear targeted ...

For total feminist protection!

"If you wish to drown,
do not torture yourself
with shallow water."
(Bulgarian proverb.)
Dr. Evil --  
No one is claiming Wendy is the enemy ...

I'm on the verge of deciding this question.

My current position is that she is not the enemy, but Ifeminism
is a trojan horse in the men's movement that never actually discloses who's inside the inviting rhetorically strategic box.

(All reproductive puns fully intended...)

If she would rename her site ifeminists-for-men then I could perhaps stop being so cynical.

Also I wish she would learn how to state her opinions precisely and stop trying to be an aspiring Maureen Dowd with MRA street-cred.

We don't like Maureen, and we won't admire her next sympathetic clone.

Has Wendy ever declared that she does not fully subscribe to feminist dogma and ideology?
Main / Humiliation or Effective Discipline?
Nov 24, 2005, 08:13 PM
Virtue -  (from Webster's ) :

* strength ... manliness... virile...

* conformity to a standard of right.

* morality .... a particular moral excellence

* strength or courage

* a commendable quality or trait...

* merit...

Lest I be accused of misoygny, I truly believe all women can aspire to these standards of human decency.

One would assume that female "liberation" would at least require these minimal virtues, yes?
Main / A Happy Thanksgiving to all
Nov 24, 2005, 07:33 PM
Sir P....

It's becoming ever more clear that you Brits have never gotten over your humiliating defeat by a bunch of rabble who stood behind trees and shot your Redcoats down as they marched in very neat lines and reloaded if too slowly.

My people would have happily signed a treaty.

Your people have an unusual penchant for being humiliated.

Nothing personal.

My DNA is mostly English, back to Mayflower days.

But, really .... standing in lines in red fashion and being shot down?

Now I understand where chivalry came from, and why it is thankfully expiring.....
Is there any way that the next time I start a thread here on SYG that I can specify that the dialogue cannot get this freakin' complicated?

Every damn post is worth reading.

The philosophy is dense.

I hate that.

Common, folks!

Lighten' up!

You're not saving the world hereabouts.

It's just about men and women who can't seem to get along, OK?


Is this site supposed to be actually s-e-r-i-o-u-s?

Main / A Happy Thanksgiving to all
Nov 24, 2005, 07:04 PM
Dr. E. --

Roy - Maybe I am even thankful for your obsession with the rules and their implementation here at SYG. Maybe in a zen sort of way.

Hey! No worries.

I'm over the zen thang.

Except for the part about emptiness.

That really bothers me still.

Because it appears that emptiness is both the source and the destination of the gender wars.....

Ah, never mind.
Main / A Happy Thanksgiving to all
Nov 24, 2005, 06:50 PM
Well, it's an odd and interesting experience to "like and admire" someone whom you have never "met" and "known" except as wonderfully insightful words-on-a-screen.

Maybe what SYG is really about is introducing what real dialogue can become.

That could possibly save what we once called "democracy."

People talking to people without the intent to demonize, judge, or marginalize them.

What a refreshing idea....

No one can be dismissed as "the other?"

Main / A Happy Thanksgiving to all
Nov 24, 2005, 10:28 AM
Dr. E. --
I am also thankful to all of you on this board who take the time to come here and stand your ground and do the many things you do in your lives that challange the hatred of feminism and encourage a loving stance towards all....

Is that now part of the SYG  "please don't ban me!" protocol?  

A "loving stance?"

Have you read the Kama Sutra, Dr. E?   :wink:

Have a great turkey day, with no Stoved Top Stuffing.

(Another feminist trick to conceal women's declining culinary skills....)

I'll try to be "luvin" from now on.

(I'm even thinking of buying a dog and then asking Bisquit Queen to train the bitch for me....)

That might be more risky than I've considered.... is there a warranty of any kind with her services?
In her piece on "Breaking the Silence," Ms. McElroy posed to herself and her readers two questions:

Two controversial questions persist. Did producers ignore the extensive court records with which they were provided on Alilire's multiple abuse of her two daughters -- then aged 8 and 3? Is PBS demonstrating bias against fathers?

Did she answer either of them in her op-ed remarks?

BTW ----

I just visited Wendy's site to try to search for her past remarks about SYG.

Of course, she has the whole place locked down tighter than a Maoist reeducation camp during China's Cultural Revolution!

But, I think Wendy might have more serious problems than site security, because I've posted below verbatim the Yahoo advertisements that are appended to the ifem's chat domain.

I wish I had made this up.... I truly do.

(And there has to be a subversive MRA and promising comic in Yahoo's hypertext marketing cubicle that is making performance art out of ifems)


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Main / Too Drunk to be Raped?
Nov 24, 2005, 09:33 AM
Actually in the States, rape laws are even scarier than you might have considered.

Start with the fact that rape is not a crime based on behaviors, but a crime based on the absence of consent.

The very same behaviors if performed consensually are not criminal.

Currently, most states now have "marital rape" laws.

Typically, a woman has 30 days after a sexual act to decide whether the act was consensual. (She can allege she was raped up to thirty days after the alleged event!)

This means, logically, that a woman's subjective memory is the trigger for prosecuting a husband for marital rape.

Can you imagine a greater tool for coercion, power-and-control, and outright emotional blackmail?

And we wonder why the Marriage Strike is growing rapidly?

Imagine this scenario: Three years into wedded bliss, a couple goes out to dinner to celebrate their anniversary. Then a movie, and some drinks at an upscale pub. During the wife's third vodka martini, hubby surprises her with a nice set of diamond earrings. She is unimpressed as she had been expecting a new Lexus. Sulking, and more drinking ensues. Back home, hubby is randy and wifey is still pouting over the unmaterialized Lexus. They fall into bed intoxicated, and spooning leads to penetration. Next morning, wifey announces that she was raped, but if she had gotten the Lexus she wanted, then maybe she could forget about this matter.

Hypothetical? Fantasy? Or just prudent speculation?

BTW, the average sentence for rape by a male in my state is 12 - 20 years.