Messages

31

Main / Re: The male positive music and video thread

Mar 19, 2013, 10:25 PM

Talk Talk - It's My Life

Talk Talk - It's My Life (UK Version)

Thanks for posting - I heard that song countless times in the 80's yet it didn't make much of an impression on me but since then with the myriad encroachments on our freedoms it now sounds more like the battle cry of a rebel!

32

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 19, 2013, 10:17 PM

CaptDMO couldn't name one fucking thing I said wrong - you hosed down this forum with more total shit about AVFM than a cow with diaorhea. You finally produced a copy of the dialog that supposedly to back up all your paranoid rantings and allegations against AVFM. The only problem is that all it confirmed is that you are currently fucking delusional and Paul Elam the one man who even YOU acknowledged helped you in your hour of need not that long beforehand still extended to you a patience and forbearance towards your delusional rantings that I'm sure any reasonable person would deem unwarranted.
Talk about biting the fucking hand that fed you!
There perhaps you will understand me now!
Lets not forget your the fucking turncoat

Ya,turncoat,sure whatever you say...... and Elam isn't?

He was once a member of MRO and even thanked Chris Key for allowing him to be on that site as he was thankfull he found it.

Then turned around and attacked Chris in an attempt to look like some sort of fucking hero over something that Chris could have been swayed into another direction on.

He didn't reach out to Chris and/or explain the situation,Elam attacked like a fucking bully,resulting in Chris's ocd kicking in and shutting down the site. Ya a real fuckin' man he is.

Never mind Elams underhanded tactic's at poaching the top mra's from across the mrm,including Erin Pizzey.

First off I have no idea what "MRO" is although the name Chris Key does ring a bell.
Paul is a Texan and it shows for sure - he doesn't take prisoners but then neither does Factory and here I think is a clue to the "nub of the rub" as it were ie it's a clash of ego's.
I have spoken up for AVFM here and elsewhere - that said I'm not naive enough to believe that it is without faults or beyond criticism. Then again show me a website and group of similar size that is.
What concerns me is that mens issues get to be put across fairly in the wider public arena and as we all know there is considerable resistance to that happening from a highly feminised establishment. Recently Angry Harry wrote an article (not long after his clash with Paul @ AVFM) saying essentially that it is not such a big deal that the MRM is undergoing some fragmentation because by and large although they may be coming from differing perspectives they are all working towards the same goals (more or less).
In other words don't throw out the baby with the fucking bath water! If you don't like an MRM website because you don't happen to like the guy or how he runs the site fine - don't go there. It doesn't give you the right to try and undo the good and effective work that site is doing or has done yet this is the arrogance of Factory even though Factory himself personally thanked Paul for his outreach at a time he was going through a bad patch. (nothing wrong with that as I've had depressive episodes on and off all my life - one of millions no doubt)
Oh yeah what's all this shit about "poaching" - this isn't a competition as far as I'm concerned and many who write @ AVFM also write eleswhere and are free to do so Erin Pizzey included who by the way very much knows her own mind and CHOSE to ally herself with AVFM  because in her own words "she feels at home" there. If I focussed my attention on the personalities of the activists there I'm sure I could find plenty to rant about and I know the same would be true for others about me but what the fuck are we here for popularity contests or something else alltogether???

33

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 19, 2013, 08:52 PM

Stunning.
I haven't seen such an impressive display of passive aggressive pseudo intellectual drivel, masquerading in dismissive Humanities undergrad script language, since Barbara Boxer tried desperately to dodge responsability for recently assaulting The Constitution.

Besides, I'm out of popcorn.

Nailed it.

CaptDMO couldn't name one fucking thing I said wrong - you hosed down this forum with more total shit about AVFM than a cow with diaorhea. You finally produced a copy of the dialog that supposedly to back up all your paranoid rantings and allegations against AVFM. The only problem is that all it confirmed is that you are currently fucking delusional and Paul Elam the one man who even YOU acknowledged helped you in your hour of need not that long beforehand still extended to you a patience and forbearance towards your delusional rantings that I'm sure any reasonable person would deem unwarranted.
Talk about biting the fucking hand that fed you!
There perhaps you will understand me now!
Lets not forget your the fucking turncoat

34

Main / Re: Subaru Still Sponsoring Pro-Male TV Ads

Mar 18, 2013, 05:25 PM

Ten thousand attaboys to the management at Subaru and to the Advertising Agency that produces commercials like this one!   


Subaru: Cut the Cord

Wow - Verizon need to look at this and catch a fucking clue on how to portray father daughter relationships!

35

Main / Re: The male positive music and video thread

Mar 18, 2013, 05:22 PM

a funny scene from GRAN TORINO

Fkn hilarious - that movie is going straight on my "must see soon" priority list! 

36

Main / Re: opposing vawa

Mar 16, 2013, 05:55 PM

Okay this is slightly off topic but I just discovered a group (UK based) that treats perps of DV - nothing new there except in this case it is as equally keen if not more so to treat female perps as male. I discovered the group via twitter and I replied to a tweet of theirs asking them is they recognised the problem of female perps and did they treat them as well.
These are some of their responses (with the "@" names removed)

"..there is an increase in female perps who abuse their partners physically and it is our job to raise that awareness"

"...that perps are not just males As i said we are still in the dark ages and there is a lot of work to do to educate people"

"..we are still sadly in the dark ages where #DV is still the unspoken abuse especially the massive rise within female perps!"

As it happens two of those responses were in answer to one of my female followers on twitter who saw the initial exchange and then joined in herself
I have had a look at their website and from what I can glean they don't appear to be using the gendered Duluth model but rather a more humanist approach that treats the person not the sex.
If this group turns out to be as good as it looks I sincerely hope it starts getting court referrals especially for male perps who would otherwise have to undergo "treatment" by gender bigots using the old Duluth model. Anyway I see this as a hopeful sign and I'm confident if that group is given a chance it will get far better results that those using the highly flawed Duluth methods.
Also it could be used as an example to point to as an alternative to the inhumane feminist dominated methods.

37

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 16, 2013, 05:24 PM

Stunning.
I haven't seen such an impressive display of passive aggressive pseudo intellectual drivel, masquerading in dismissive Humanities undergrad script language, since Barbara Boxer tried desperately to dodge responsability for recently assaulting The Constitution.

Besides, I'm out of popcorn.

Whose post(s) are you referring to??

38

Main / Re: Interesting debate over victim status

Mar 16, 2013, 02:37 PM

it is indeed hard work.  And yes, the brainwashing is so deep people simply are not aware they are biased.

This is the incongruity of living within a pro-unisex society (ie feminist) on one hand and the reality of socio-biological evolution on the other.

39

Main / Re: Body of South Dakota teen who died trying to save brother found

Mar 16, 2013, 02:32 PM

Body of South Dakota teen who died trying to save brother found


The body of a South Dakota teenager who drowned when she jumped into an icy river to save her 6-year-old brother has been recovered, an emergency official told Reuters on Saturday.

Recovery crews pulled 16-year-old Madison Leigh Wallace's body from the Big Sioux River late on Friday, Michael Koopman with Sioux Falls Fire Rescue said .

Investigators believe the girl jumped into the river when her younger brother, Garrett Martin Wallace, fell into the water on Thursday night.

The 6-year-old boy was able to get out and was not injured, Koopman said.

Authorities are still searching for the body of Lyle Francis Eagletail, 28, a passerby who jumped into the river to try to help the drowning teen and was apparently swept away with her, Koopman said.

----

She laid down her life for her brother.

And the passerby, too, who tried to save her.

Terribly sad news and I am gutted for the families concerned and that little boy who lost such a gutsy  big sister.  

40

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 16, 2013, 10:57 AM

So Tigerman -  How do you understand the dissent of people like Factory, Angry Harry, Mr E, and likely others, and their departure from AVFM?  Do you see this as totally a function of their own personal difficulties and/or diverging viewpoints or do you see any responsibility on AVFM's shoulders?

In the case of Angry Harry I don't think he has dissented at all from what AVFM is trying to achieve or even with it's MO of activism. As far as I am aware AH fell out with Paul over one specific article and one specific issue ie recovered memories (although I must stress again in the incident that caused the fallout there was no proof either way whether the article was written as a result of a recovered memory,).
With some of the other dissenters like Bernard Chapin - the dissent is clearly more based on politics of a more partisan nature - the decision (widely supported) at AVFM to become overtly politically neutral upset some activists especially some identifying with the right that felt that a struggle to obtain mens rights and defeat feminism meant defeating the left by taking on right wing ideals and goals.
Another factor that might explain dissent is perhaps resulting from deliberate mischief making by certain activists spreading either outright lies and\or misinformation about what is going on at AVFM  and where it is headed.  The "AVFM is promoting Gay Rights" is just one recent example of this kind of total bullshit. Trouble is as I said in another of my responses recently, most folks are intellectually lazy.
This intellectual laziness is often especially the case if they are told something by a person they respect  - anyone who visited AVFM  and looked for themselves would struggle to find a single article article promoting "Gay Rights" and of course the reason for this is simple ie there aren't any!
In my exchanges with Factory I kept getting the feeling we were talking about totally different websites for the most part. It was actually with some relief that after reading Factory's exchanges with Paul Elam (which Factory kindly posted here) that Paul was also as mystified as I was in making sense of Factory's accusations.
All that said it is undeniable that with the increasing high profile that popularity has brought to AVFM it's adoption of a robust commenting policy has upset a lot of folks both old timers and relative newbies.
Even with such a robust policy (esp against promotion of violence in any form) AVFM still gets accused (without foundation) of being a "hate group full of angry white men". The good side of this policy though bears fruit when folks come here to investigate for themselves and discover they had been lied to by feminists.
So although it is sad and regrettable that sometimes even a veteran MRA might end up earning a ban for what might have been a momentary lapse where they made an expression of violence never intending for it to be carried out the policy nevertheless has a very sound basis and priotises the our shared goals over individual indulgences - one can have endless arguments about this prioritisation but at least the policy is clear and has a positive aim.
I myself am a veteran MRA ever since I discovered alt.feminism and soc.men in usenet way back in 1997. All that time i have regarded myself as nothing more than a footsoldier in a long struggle to restore rights and justice to boys and men because of this I have never suffered much from the kind of ego clashes that are the hazard of becoming a more high profile activist.
I am also quite a hot blooded person in real life and on a few occasions my big mouth has come close to getting myself killed (esp. when I was living and working in Northern Ireland in the 90's I could give examples but it is off topic and might distract from the serious issue under discussion) or seriously injured.
Even so thus far I haven't really had a problem following the guidelines but then again I make effort to be conscious that anything I write there could be used by a smaller but hostile audience to bring discredit to what we are collectively trying to achieve. This discipline came in very handy when trying to deal with Factory's initial responses in this very thread the old "hothead" me would have responded somewhat differently! lol
Okay I was making light of something there but on a more serious note it has occurred to me that a lot of changes we seek in society we somehow expect them to be "done" for us without us as individuals having to make changes. Take the understanding that we coiuld make more progress by becoming more overtly inclusive and welcoming to ALL categories of human beings as long as they support our quest & mission withiut any hidden agendas of their own. It was one thing for this to make sense logically but it did make me question just how open and inclusive were my real life attitudes and to cut a long story short it was this kind of self confrontation that I needed to learn to live my life in a more consistently conscious way.  Old habits die hard as they say so it would be unrealistic to expect overnight transformations - that said I do follow a daily discipline one oif the side effects of which is a "raising of consciousness" for wont of a better expression(not a proselytizer so won't go into here even though it is not a religion I follow).
Another old saying that has applicable wisdom is "practice makes perfect" ie the more I practice living my life consciously the more easier and pleasurable it gets. Other MRA's at AVFM both editorially and members who only comment (like me) have reached similar understandings ie that personal growth and being more conscious of ones humanity and thereby finding it easier to recognise others, is a synchronicity that I find delightful but more realistically it is just probably a case of birds of a feather etc.
Anyway I happen to have a discipline or practice in my life that helps me to  stay on track with the MHRA perspective adopted by AVFM but I do not follow that practice or discipline to become a better MRA that (hopefully) is just a side effect. I have my daily discipline as a means to focus my awareness more on that "power" or force is maintaining my actual existence (ie life itself) because the human tendency is to take that completely for granted and thereby squander the very precious time we have here.
Other MRA's (or MHRA's I don't care so much about the labels more the intent) perhaps have other disciplines or practices some like are devout Christians others are devout atheists it's all good because it is the goodwill that counts and the willingness to give each other a little elbow room.
To summarize though I will say that overall I am genuinely baffled on the level of dissent that has occurred and my explanations are not offered with any strong confidence. Certainly I do see a lot of out and out misrepresentation and even lies being spread about AVFM but some criticisms are valid in their own right and I won't be a hypocrite and pretend otherwise. That said it is important not to overestimate or over emphasise the level of dissent as AVFM is still a rapidly growing resource in taking the fight to the enemy and gaining us new allies in the process. AVFM has now outstripped both the Feministing and The Good Men Project websites in terms of popularity.
As far as I'm concerned I don't mind some fragmentation as long as said fragments don't waste too much of their energies shadow boxing.  
Oh one last thing sabout Factory - I did not realise until last night that he has written and had published TWENTY ONE articles for AVFM in the past. I haven't read most of them but I have scanned a few them and was impressed with his writing - he clearly has a talent for this so speaking personally I really hope he can resolve his issues (positively hopefully) and continue to produce the kind of high class articles he has written in the past either at AVFM or anywhere else to promote greater understanding of the human dimension of our issues.

41

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 16, 2013, 12:18 AM

No such takeover has taken place - the guy who wrote the article for AVFM hasn't written ANY other article for AVFM since.

Good -- as long as it stays that way.

If it doesn't you can rest assured that in my case at least you will get proof that I'm no sycophant. 

42

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 16, 2013, 12:16 AM

Factory wrote

Wow, are you ever off base....

Can you point to ANY of my posts that are 'advocating violence'?  No, you can't.  Wanna know why?

Because there AREN'T ANY...but hey, keep believing what you want...

Advocating violence isn't the only item in the comment policy that could earn a ban - I thought it was advocating violence that got you banned but if what you posted represented all your final exchanges there I will gladly acknowledge I was wrong in that respect.
I am still curious about one factor though - were you actually banned?
I ask this because in the exchanges you presented I didn't see any specific notice that you had in fact been banned?

43

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 16, 2013, 12:04 AM

Factory:
Have just read your post where you copied the exchanges between yourself and Paul (and one or two others). All I can say is that as far as I am concerned it does not validate your accusations and claims against AVFM and it's "direction" etc whatsoever.
I don't want to speculate or insult you but something has thrown your judgement wayyy off.

Gee, I'm shocked.  You're such an 'unbiased' guy after all....

I wasn't the only one who failed to see the validation for your position in those exchanges.

44

Main / Re: Shattering the Mens rights movement

Mar 15, 2013, 11:42 PM

Lets take the first article linked to called "MRM Marxism?" - this wasn't AVFM endorsing "marxism" but rather allowing a marxist supporter who also supported mens rights to explain his left wing philosophy and what makes fellow mra marxists like himself "tick". [...] Some individuals though were very upset that this article got published because despite a consultation amongst supporters of AVFM overwhelmingly supporting an apolitical stance in it's activism [...]

Marxists are known of taking over organizations and pushing out non-marxists (cf. "salami tactic"). One's "explaining left wing philosophy" is another's agitprop activity, and is pretty far from an "apolitical stance".

No such takeover has taken place - the guy who wrote the article for AVFM hasn't written ANY other article for AVFM since.  In addition if you look in the comments to the article you will discover that the author is an engaging and quite humble man.
Like I said all this "reds under the bed" paranoia is not justified when it comes to AVFM.

45

Main / Re: The male positive music and video thread

Mar 15, 2013, 10:34 PM

I'm a big fan of the Chemical Brothers (My Bro is a dance DJ and turned me on to them long ago).
Here are two tracks that are largely lyricless. The first one is accompanied by a very pro-male video (in my view) the second video\track has no video except for a static image but it just always gets my pulse racing in a good way so i hope it has similar effects on at least some of you guys
The Chemical Brothers - K+D+B

The Chemical Brothers - Dissolve [Lyrics in Description Box]

Thanks, Tigerman.  That was one wild video showing active young men.

Delighted you liked it - what I really liked about the video was how later in the video it showed them crashing and mishaps where they got it slightly wrong. That just emphasised that their skills were hard won and yet willingly paid the price in the name of having fun. 
Really enjoyed that commercial you posted shame we see so few as positive these days.