Gynocentrism Sucks
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To Factory
First of all *I* am not AVFM. AVFM is there - it exists and so far I support it aims and goals ONLY because they largely coincide with my own personally held convictions.
Nor am I happy with all that is decided or that goes on there but I don't have to be - it is not my site and if I don't like it enough I can ignore it and move on.
I understand and sympathise perhaps more than you think that indeed some veteran MRA's have had their noses put out of joint in clashes with site policy and\or some of any of the moderators there. I was very saddened by the clash between Angry Harry and Paul Elam for example. Had I been in charge of the site I may well reacted differently than Paul .
I still read Angry Harry's articles and I have enormous respect and love for the man.
It was he prior to the last Gulf war that initially annoyed me with his opposition to the coming campaign - at the time I was still stupid and gullible enough to believe that the offensive was for the good of the poor Iraqi's, the Gulf in general and world peace (due to the elimination of the non-existent weapons of mass destruction etc). Yet Harry's voice troubled me - Harry foresaw the coming carnage and the undue collateral damage as a basic affront to humanity and boy was he right although it took me longer than I am proud to admit to see his perspective and agree with it.
I am not the sycophant you think I am. Like I said before AVFM is a weapon and in my view it is being honed into an ever more effective one - so please for the sake of your own nervous system chill the fuck out and let it do it's work.
"As it happens I agree but ironically it is (mostly calling themse4lves MRA's) critics of AVFM that have been precisely guilty of just that. If you don't believe me I challenge anyone to find a single article on AVFM promoting gay rights."
How about thread after thread of the AVfM crowd vilifying and attacking anyone who doesn't expressly support the agenda, even to the point of doing so to those who don't support it 'enough', or 'properly'? There is no 'Gay Agenda' at AVfM...sure. But there is a wickedly intolerant politically correct strain that DOMINATES the discourse there now, and the message at AVfM has most definitely deviated from a 'Mens Rights' path, and towards a 'Humanist' path (ie, we're "about equality" now, for instance, instead of standing up for men and boys).
I can think of about 10 LOOONG time MRAs that initially supported the shit out of Paul and his cronies...guys who literally wrote the MRA-book, that are flat out disgusted with the behaviour there....and I am one of them. Moreover, nearly ALL of this intolerance and PC totalitarianism showed up in the short span between AVfM garnering attention, and the influx of 'inclusive' types in the masthead....nearly NONE of which have more than a year's presence in the MRM, and nearly all of which are completely incapable of listing off the issues men face (save the 'Humanist' concerns)...
AVfM has most definitely tried to pervert the MRM (and no, that's not a 'gaybashing' reference), and now not only claims itself the 'Second Wave of the MRM', but feels justified in policing the speech of all who visit.
Sorry Tigerman, but just because YOU agree with them, it doesn't mean they are right.
So like I said there hasn't been a single article on AVFM promoting a gay rights agenda.
What is the problem with being "inclusive" anyway ?? As long as people (PEOPLE) support our aims and goals what business have we questioning their sex, sexual orientation, religion or not, nationality, politics or anything else as long as they are on board with our goals?
I agree it does police the speech of those who comment there - AVFM with it's increasing popularity it is a target of much hatred (and now from it's own side it seems) usually from feminists who are continually trying to depict the MRM (and MRA'S) as violent, right wing, homophobic misogynists and so because it was thought not a good idea to have the whole movement characterised by a disgruntled minority a policy was developed.
This last comment of yours is interesting:-
"Sorry Tigerman, but just because YOU agree with them, it doesn't mean they are right."
Do you know something I really don't care if I am right or wrong about this or that aspect of activism or how to go about it - the important thing to me is what works and for the sake of that my petty ago can go and fuck itself.
