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Messages - Rob Layton

Quote from: "Dr Evil"
And many of us have been shouted down by gays yes.

Can you say more about this Rob?  I'd be curious to hear the details of the what was being said and what the shouting down was all about.  My experience with men's issues protests have involved both straights and gays.  I haven't seen much polarization except for male feminists who try to speak "for" gays.  Then you have a problem.

As I said I am not anti gay, if its examples you are looking for take a look at the Yahoo, BBC forums or any number of Newspaper comment web pages where my fellow MRA's and myself have tried to put our case forward and been vigorously attacked by gays.
The 'Bring your Husband to heel' battle was a particularly nasty shouting match, and at times one found it hard to carry on. Anybody reading this who has ever tried to reason with these people will realise it is futile. That has been my experience. I have no wish to denigrate anybodies sexual orientation I am merely making the point that true equality means fighting those who harm the men's movement by shouting anti male hatred and when the going gets tough they hide behind the people who have made them lapdogs. They make the rules up as they go along. Are we expected to take it because we are afraid of someone calling us homophobic or do we fight back?
Quote from: "Dr Evil"
You've been shouted down by gays?  My experience is that gay men are very open and interested in men's issues.

I welcome anyone who will fight along side us, Male, Female, Black, White, or Yellow. The problem is that not many gays are prepared to fight with us. The majority seem hell bent on causing as much chaos as they possibly can. Any time we try to speak we are shouted down, and ridiculed as misogynists. I am prepared to fight against anyone who would try and rob us of our God given rights, and that includes gays.

If you look at what I said you will see I am not anti gay. And many of us have been shouted down by gays yes.
Main / Re:
Mar 21, 2006, 09:34 AM
Quote from: "typhonblue"

Well, as soon as the MRA movement turns "officially" anti-gay (whatever that means). I'm out.
I'm not condoning one form of discrimination against men in order to end another.
It's all the same damn thing in the end really.

I welcome anyone who will fight along side us, Male, Female, Black, White, or Yellow. The problem is that not many gays are prepared to fight with us. The majority seem hell bent on causing as much chaos as they possibly can. Any time we try to speak we are shouted down, and ridiculed as misogynists. I am prepared to fight against anyone who would try and rob us of our God given rights, and that includes gays.
Quote from: "AlMartin"
Hmmmm now they are "exclusively" selling the following:

A trend me thinketh?

Actually, As I had said before, I think all the complaints are just fueling their market.

Images stolen from

It is just the is a lack of opposition to these products that has given permission to these companies to promote anti-male propaganda.
What next another chystal nacht ? :twisted:
This adjudication means nothing. I have been in touch with A.S.A who made this adjudication,  as far as I can ascertain, they are a self regulatory body that help the advertising industry to stay in business.
Their press officer Mat Wilson is amiable, but unhelpful and evasive.
Their e/mails lead me to believe that they all sit around and have a good laugh at the expense of the General public whilst supporting the people who make up the advertising community. Every now and again they make a decision to make them look as if they are doing something, but if you look at their website these cases are pathetic.
So it is onward and upward the fight goes on, where I dont know !


Hi all.

It has taken longer than anticipated for all of the responses, from all of the official bodies one needs to complain too, before we take this campaign to our national representatives, to come in. However, they are now all in and this means that all of the official channels of complaint have been exhausted. This in turn means that we can write to our elected representatives and honestly tell them that we have identified a hole in the legislation that we want them to close with a new law or amendment.

It is with this in mind that I am currently drafting a letter to be sent to ALL MP's in Britain, simultaneously. This letter will be sent in the next few days and I would like to ask all supporters of the campaign to write to British MP's either on the same day, or over the next week or so, to give the letter some backup. Please write in a polite but firm way, so as not to make them angry at the wrong people and try to avoid to much hype. Hype tends to put people off. In other words, express your outrage but try to avoid being outrageous in the way it's done.

The letter will contain the following points.

1. That products such as these should not be on sale in a country that prides itself on respect, tolerance and the promotion of diversity.

2. That these products are clearly sexist and bigoted in nature, as is the promotion surrounding them.

3. That these products are exploiting a hole in current legislation that needs to be quickly filled and that this can be done simply, by adding amendments to current legislation.

4. That people should not have to tolerate such hatred being sold in the guise of humour and that targets children and adults alike with intolerant, intemperate and abusive messages.

The letter will contain details of all the organisations contacted that have not been able to help as well as details of those few supportive organisations who have promised support.

The letter will also contain links to the knife block page and other products promoting hatred.

If the MP's fail to respond in sufficient numbers, or with no enthusiasm, then the campaign will expand to seek the views of other businesses, individuals and groups and to seek their support with which to build a greater consensus of views. Once we have sufficient "muscle" we will re-approach the MP's and ask them to think again.

If you have any points you feel you would like to add, please let me know. I may not include them but on the other hand, I may very well include them if they are powerful enough. You can always add anything you think I should have said in your own email later, if you disagree with my choice.

I shall be using the excellent page at the address below to send this email to all MP's. Please, wait for word that this letter has been sent before sending your own. This will ensure a coordinated, rather than a piecemeal, approach.

Thank you to everyone who has been so supportive of this campaign. Please ask all of your friends and family to also write a short note in support and send it via the web site. If we can stop this nonsense then we can do other and greater things in the future by working together in a joint effort. We must do all we can to stamp out this hate and try to make this world a safer place for our children. To that end, I would also ask everyone who can, to support the great work being done by the Damilola Taylor Trust in their efforts to end knife crime and save our kids from pointless and savage violence.

George Rolph
Main / Students vote to admit men
Feb 28, 2006, 04:54 AM

Students vote to admit men Tuesday February 28, 01:33 AM

Students at Oxford University's last all-women college have voted to admit men for the first time.
Some 55% of undergraduates at St Hilda's College voted to allow male students in, a move which would herald the most radical change of course since the institution was set up in 1893.

Significantly, with the question of obtaining funding for women-only lectureships a major factor in the debate, 77% of students voted to admit men as fellows of the college.
But the poll, held last week by members of the Junior Common Room (JCR), the college's undergraduate student body, is not binding.

Such a decision would have to be taken by the college's governing body.
In a statement principal Lady Judith English, said that the ballot followed a series of debates on the subject during the current term.

"The outcome is important but will not in itself determine the future of the College," she said.
"Only the members of the governing body who are the trustees of the college, can vote to change the statutes to admit men and no date has been set for a vote in the governing body."The governing body rejected such a move in the last vote in 2003.

St Hilda's, founded by the famous Victorian advocate of women's education Dorothea Beale, has enjoyed a unique status since 1992 when Somerville College, whose famous old girls include Margaret Thatcher, ended a century-old tradition and announced it would admit men.
Main / Calls for new sex equality laws
Feb 27, 2006, 07:52 AM

Calls for new sex equality laws

Britain's sex equality laws need to be modernised to continue the work
done to tackle discrimination, the Equal Opportunities Commission has said. It is 30 years since legislation first came into force to deal with unfair treatment of women in the workplace.

But the EOC says women are still sacked for being pregnant, and there
is still a large pay gap between the sexes.
Chairwoman Jenny Watson praised progress in the public sector, but
called on private industry to do more.

'Morally wrong'
Conservative leader David Cameron added: "It is totally unacceptable in
a modern, civilised society for there to be a pay gap between men and
women doing equivalent work.
Women working part-time earn nearly 40% less than full-time men, a pay penalty that has hardly changed in 30 years EOC Chairwoman Jenny Watson  "We need to make more of women's talents and skills and prevent them from being channelled into low paid, part-time work below their potential. "It is morally wrong, quite apart from the practical problems it creates. There has been far too much complacency over this issue: the battle for equal pay still has to be won."

Figures suggest 30,000 women are sacked from jobs each year for being
pregnant, and that the part-time pay gap is stuck at around 38%.
Ms Watson said the private sector needed to take responsibility for
making improvements by promoting equality and eliminating sex ddiscrimination.
But the commission is warning that without change to the law there will bbe difficulties for the next generation of female workers.

Low-paid work

Ms Watson said: "For many women, sex equality is a thin veneer which
vanishes as soon as they take on caring responsibilities.
"Women working part-time earn nearly 40% less than full-time men, a pay penalty that has hardly changed in 30 years." But the EOC statistics do show changes. In 1975, women represented one third of higher education students. In 2005, girls are outperforming boys at school and represent of 56% of those in higher education.

The number of women in the workforce has increased by a third since 1975.
In 1975, less than 2% of managers were women. In 2005 one third of managers are women.
The average household income has increased by around 200 since the mid 1970s.
New fathers today spend nearly two hours a day on child-related activity, compared with 15 minutes 30 years ago.

Story from BBC NEWS:
Quote from: "Men's Rights Activist"
"Passer-by Jenny Graham, 35, a mum of two from Pontypool, said yesterday she thought most people were fed up with them.

She said: 'I wish they would just shut up and go home.'"

This appears to be an obvious error in reporting.  Here, I'll just correct it so that it more accurately reflects the true public sentiment:

"People are fed up with the gender feminist man-hating government.

'I wish those gender feminist man-haters in government would just take their Hitleresque laws, shut up and go home.'"  

I'm always glad to see F4J conducting a lawful and very public protest.

For anyone who wants to make a comment :D

I cant see one comment on the comment pages :wink:

Fathers 4 Justice's noisy protest in city

Feb 25 2006

South Wales Echo

Fathers 4 Justice campaigners swarmed through Cardiff city centre in costume saying they wanted 'to show we're still alive'.
A 30-strong group of the fathers' rights protesters mounted a noisy vigil outside the Civil Justice Street in Park Street from noon yesterday.

Many campaigners were dressed in traditional police helmets or Army surplus gear holding purple helium balloons and honking deafening air horns.
Lead campaigner Phil Davies, 43, from Swansea - whose teenage son was dressed as Osama bin Laden - said the aim was to show Fathers 4 Justice Wales was still going.
He said: 'We wanted to show that we're still alive and to send a message to the courts.'

Steve Bayliss, 34, of Pwllgwaun, Pontypridd, had donned a Batman costume with his four-year-old son Brandon dressed as Robin.

The South Wales Fire and Rescue service stores worker, who is going through his second custody battle for his younger child, said his aim was to make people realise there was a problem with family law.
He said: 'I think it's about raising awareness.

'You do get good fathers, you do get good mothers and there should be a starting point that is 50/50.'
The group decided not to try to scale the court building this time.

But Mr Davies said they were considering a repeat of their May 2004 protest when two men in Batman and Robin outfits perched on a 25ft-high ledge.
It was one of a series of high profile stunts including Santa Clauses disrupting the Wales Millennium Centre opening, Batman scaling Buckingham Palace, and purple flour thrown at Tony Blair in the House of Commons.
But the group has since suffered a string of publicity blows.
Lead Welsh campaigner Matthew Mudge was publicly outed last year as a convicted wife-beater.
Passer-by Jenny Graham, 35, a mum of two from Pontypool, said yesterday she thought most people were fed up with them.

She said: 'I wish they would just shut up and go home.'   :roll:
Main / This needs to be brought to light
Feb 25, 2006, 07:48 AM
I dont think this will do any good for the tourist Industry.
I think many British men will think twice about going to Florida and putting money into the pockets of a community that promotes this kind of misandry.
We will vote with our wallets, I will not go to Florida this year as planned.
Main / Iain Duncan Smith and the nspcc.
Feb 24, 2006, 08:23 PM
I see this to be a very possitive step towards politicians seeing lots of other flaws in the feminist dominated society in which we live.
Hats off to I/D/S.
The other possitive move is the offer of dialouge with the ukmm.
Good news all round. :D
Main / Media Release NSPCC Welcome Dialogue
Feb 24, 2006, 07:48 PM
The UK Men’s Movement.

122 Holehouse Drive,


www.ukmm.or G13 3TF tel.0141-959-4194.

                       Media Release

                           NSPCC Welcome Dialogue

Today the UK Men’s Movement were in discussions with The NSPCC over their portrayal of men in their advertising campaigns, and on various other issues ( See below).

Present for NSPCC were Chief Executive Mary Marsh, and John Grounds, Director of Corporate Communication . Brian Robertson, who was at NSPCC headquarters for the meeting, present and Chairman George McAulay, who was "present via speaker-phone, put the UKMM case.

Mrs Marsh said that she was looking for continued dialogue with UKMM on various issues discussed. For further details, please contact George McAulay on 0141-959-4194. ( on Point " 6" below, we promised to supply NSPCC with research that indicated that on an individual basis , homosexuals and lesbians already sexually abuse children almost 100 times more that heterosexuals)

Outline Meeting Agenda
(Apologies for its unpolished presentation)

1) Restoration of accurate child abuse data.
The data referenced in Broken Homes and Battered Children used to be a good
source for statistics gathering. It showed conclusively that children were
much safer in homes where the biological fathers were present (33 times
more safe). No surprise then that this data gathering (organised by the
NSPCC) was halted. We would like it restarted.

2) The demonisation of men in NSPCC adverts
When they know that mothers commit the majority of abuse, why do they
consistently target fathers? They were lambasted in the Victoria Climbie
enquiry (where their reluctance to accept that the primary abuser was the
auntie together with her live in boyfriend). But they persist in
concentrating their advertising on demonising fathers--have they learned
nothing? Why do they spend so much money on misleading campaigns like this,
(£ 24 million last year from their £90m  income) when their homes are

3) Support the safest family types
Why do they not campaign to restore marriage, which is by far the safest
arrangement for child-safety? The overwhelming majority of children do not
need to be protected from their parents, who know well enough the
difference between moderate physical correction and child abuse. Rather,
they need protection from overzealous social workers intent on imposing an
unproven philosophy on every family by force of law.

4) NSPCC promoting Marxist Feminist agenda
Mary Marsh titles herself as "Ms" does she describe herself as a Feminist?
has she any connections with Feminist orgs ( NSPCC have made joint
submissions with Women's Aid for legislation). The adverts targeting children bring in
echos of the Lenist grain Hoarding campaigns.

5) Family destroyers
Why does the NSPCC  asist in the destruction of families by supporting and fueling false allegations? E.G.  D .v. NSPCC, 1973. What are the figures for false allegations? What information does the NSPCC have about the harm caused by false allegations?  When will the NSPCC
remove the lie that it supports parents?  (The NSPCC faciliates making false accusations anonymously.)

6) Support of deviant family types
Why does the NSPCC support gay adoption?
Why do they encourage singles and gays
to adopt, when they know from their own research that kids are safest in a  home with the natural mother and father present?

7) The concealment by the NSPCC of high rate of abuse on children in
non-biological/parent households
The Climbe case would be a good example of this. Are they afraid that
challenging the social taboo against acknowledging that mothers are the
majority abusers will damage their income?

8) Harm done to children by witch-hunting
One of the results of the witch-hunt atmosphere they are helping to
generate is the decline in the number of people prepared to work with
children, from scout leaders to teachers supervising school trips.One
particularly disturbing activity recently taken up by the charity is a
quest to identify possible future abusers from among young people who have
themselves been abused: 'From 2002 onwards we are developing this work to
help young people who have not yet abused others, but show signs of doing
so in the future.' The Society does not say what these signs might be;
nonetheless, the idea that they are spying on young, previously abused
people going about their perfectly innocent business is chilling.However,
it's not just the previously abused the Society wants to keep tabs on.
Their entry in the Data Protection Register reveals that they are
registered to hold intimate data such as details of sex life, political
opinions, ethnic origin and religious beliefs on offenders and alleged
offenders and their relatives.

We will make it clear that we will be reporting any minsandry to their
celebrity supporters, who are a major benefit in revenue raising.

We will state clearly that we want a pre-or postscript to adverts making it
clear to kids watching that the vast majority of mums and dads love and
protect their children.
Main / Iain Duncan Smith and the nspcc.
Feb 24, 2006, 07:33 PM,,172-2052181,00.html

The Times February 22, 2006

Big charities urged to stop shouting and start working
By Sam Coates

LARGE charities such as the NSPCC should spend more time helping vulnerable individuals and less time engaging in political campaigns, Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday.

The former Tory leader, who is heading a review on social justice for David Cameron, launched a blistering attack on big charities, claiming that they had become arms of government who rarely take risks. "They look over their shoulder at government the whole time because they are their source of funding,�  he said.

He complained that there were few "believers�  in big charities because they relied on paid staff rather than volunteers, and this helped to contribute to cynicism and "giving fatigue�  amongst the public. "As Big Charity gets ever closer to Big Government, it increasingly mirrors its thinking and behaviour,�  he said. "State bureaucracies feel threatened by new thinking and different approaches.�  

He pointed to a recent poll commissioned by the Centre for Social Justice. This asked, "If you only had £200 to give to a good cause, who would you give it to?�  Only 4 per cent opted for a national charity, he said, contrasting this with the 31 per cent who would give to a local charity or church working with needy people.

He singled out the NSPCC and Scope as examples of "bad�  charities. Of the NSPCC, he said: "I can't remember a single thing on the ground that the NSPCC have done.�  

This has infuriated the charity, which accused Mr Duncan Smith of getting his facts wrong. A spokeswoman said: "Less than 10 per cent of our funding comes from government, we have 500 volunteers and we are not risk averse. There is no doubt about the independence of the organisation and we speak very strongly on behalf of children who have been abused.�  She added that Mr Duncan Smith had spent a lot of time in Scotland, where the NSPCC did not operate.

A spokesman for the National Council for Voluntary Organisations also rejected Mr Duncan Smith's theses. "You cannot apply the private sector model of 'big is bad; small is good' to the voluntary sector,�  he said.
Main / Panic rooms for Women.
Feb 23, 2006, 11:21 AM
Sorry I have just seen the other thread for this..
However it seems that certain groups are forming e/mail campaigns to the Guardian.
You can all help out by going to the link provided and leaving your comments , if you have not already done so.
Sorry again to the person who posted this before.