Manliness is back in America.

[Rob Layton]

I wondered if some of you chaps would like to add your voice to comments in the Daily Mail regarding this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395271&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ct=5

You can leave your comments here. It seems to have started a debate if nothing else.

[typhonblue]

Summary:

blah blah blah women like blah blah blah women like blah blah blah women like blah blah blah feminazis are all to blame blah blah blah provider blah blah blah men shouldn't take care of their appearance blah blah blah a real man provides for women blah blah a real man defines himself by women's needs blah blah blah

Why is it so necessary to define manhood _for everyone_? Isn't it something individual?

As for the "meterosexual thing"... I've noticed a big distinction between asian and caucasian men. Asian men always seem to make an effort to look good. They take pride in themselves and their appearance whereas a lot of western men seem to be in a dead-heat to look as bad as humanly possible. (Almost to a man they act like fat women. Worse, fat women with no self-esteem.)

Asian culture is about as meterosexual as you can get. The only men I've ever seen wearing eyeliner were Asian and I've been told a somewhat feminine(to our eye) appearance is de rigeur.

Yet... asian culture also has a strong thread of respecting men and instilling pride for being male in its sons. Which translates into girls who respect men and treat them with more warmth and desire. (Incidentally... hachu is probably long gone but I found out that the rate of suicide in Japan, for instance, is lower among men then in the west and the preportion of male to female suicide is 2:1 as opposed to about 6:1 in the west.)

To conclude, why would a man who takes pride in his appearance(thus in being male) and decides, of his own free will, to look the way he wants to, be less of a man then the ubiquitous psudeo gang-banger with low slung baggy pants that make his legs look 1.5 feet long, in an floppy, decaled tee and backwards cap?

[bluedye]

Summary:

blah blah blah women like blah blah blah women like blah blah blah women like blah blah blah feminazis are all to blame blah blah blah provider blah blah blah men shouldn't take care of their appearance blah blah blah a real man provides for women blah blah a real man defines himself by women's needs blah blah blah

Why is it so necessary to define manhood _for everyone_? Isn't it something individual?

Giving men a positive outline of what it means to be a man is a good thing.   I'm not sure why you seem to have taken offense to the idea of that.

With all of the things out there aimed at destroying manliness/masculinity, I treat an article such as this as a big step in the right direction.

Some men need to hear that they can act / think / be like they were designed to be & there's nothing wrong with that.

We hear the opposite of that message routinely, unfortunately.

[Hombre]

Giving men a positive outline of what it means to be a man is a good thing.

I disagree. I don't need to be told how to be a man. And I don't consider this article to provide a positive outline. Is it talking about things like being responsible, courteous, forgiving, etc.? No, it's harping about metrosexuals... you know, those men who take care of themselves like "women" and aren't slobs like us real men. And there's also the same whine most of these articles include about men needing to provide for women. And the usual telling us how to be men by telling us what women like.

Some men need to hear that they can act / think / be like they were designed to be & there's nothing wrong with that.

This article says there's nothing wrong with it as long as they were "designed" to meet the mold it defines. I'm not feminine enough to let it define how I act/ think/ or behave.

[bluedye]

I disagree. I don't need to be told how to be a man. And I don't consider this article to provide a positive outline. Is it talking about things like being responsible, courteous, forgiving, etc.? No, it's harping about metrosexuals... you know, those men who take care of themselves like "women" and aren't slobs like us real men. And there's also the same whine most of these articles include about men needing to provide for women. And the usual telling us how to be men by telling us what women like.

Do you like being told that you should be more like a woman?  Given the choice, I'd prefer something more in-tune with how men are more biologically predisposed.

That's all I was saying.   That article showed men in a positive light.  It may not have been perfect by everyone's definition of what it means to be a man... but it sure as hell beats the usual "Your masculinity is offensive, so here' s laundry list of things you can do to become more feminine."

This article says there's nothing wrong with it as long as they were "designed" to meet the mold it defines. I'm not feminine enough to let it define how I act/ think/ or behave.

Nor should any article have that power.  ...It still beats fluff pieces that try to change men into women.  ...I'll take anything I can get these days.  I'm pretty sick of the "other" types.

[hansside]

defining yourself on something you had no part in does not make sense.
all indivduals should build their identity on what they do, not what they are - if not we can not claim to be human - then we are just animals.

this identity building we see know - proud to be white black women gay whatever is fallicious - it is simply neopaganism.

I do not need to be told how a man is to behave. I know that. To do the right thing. To speak up in the face of injustice - regardless who is the target.

[bluedye]

Men nowadays are told that "what they are" is broken.  The fix?  Change yourself into a woman.  *There, that  pesky masculinity won't bother you again.*

An article that shows "manliness* as a natural and worthwhile state of being is a positive thing for men to see.

Should men adhere to everything in the piece like mindless sheep?  ...Of course not.

...But a piece that gives men the notion that it's OK to be masculine is not as damaging to men as some folks are making it out to be.

[typhonblue]

Why do men need a positive outline?

How come I never see an article offering a positive outline for women? Is it because women are innately positive?

[bluedye]

Why do men need a positive outline?

Because they are routinely fed a negative one.  Not just by articles, either.  ...Our society is brimming with examples.

How come I never see an article offering a positive outline for women? Is it because women are innately positive?

There are a ridiculous amount of "empowerment" articles out there for women.  Google "empowerment women, article" & see what you find.  If that doesn't work, go to the magazine rack at any bookstore & thumb through the women's magazines.   More than one article offering up various "guides" for ladies there as well.

[Daymar]

So this article about what duties men should perform reminds you of an empowerment article? Well I suppose it might be if you mean it empowers the women they will be performing the duties for.

A man defines manliness by existing. The article makes it sound like a man is a social construct. I think I was actually born naked.

[bluedye]

Well it's clear I need to post the parts that I find positive so as not to defend every word out of the author's pen.

Years of feminism, which insists on the absolute interchangeability of the traditional roles of man and woman, are giving way to a reassertion of the male attribute of machismo, it is claimed. The metrosexual, that urbanised, sensitive, emotionally and physically androgynous model of 21st-century manhood, is dead.

I think that is an important thing for men to consider.

Up and down America, feminists bearing torches and pitchforks are on the trail of Harvey Mansfield, a Yale University professor whose book, Manliness, laments: "We are in the process of making the English language gender neutral, and 'manliness', the quality of one gender, or rather of one sex, seems to describe the essence of the enemy we are attacking, the evil we are eradicating. He continues: "Feminism needs to come to terms with manliness. I think women are confused about what they want men to be and that leads to male confusion."

Mansfield believes there are stark differences between the sexes, and that they should be celebrated. If those manly attributes are hard to pin down, most women tend to know them when they see them.

A straw poll of the wives and mothers in my small Kent community offered up the following characteristics. A real man is chivalrous and emotionally robust and mature. He is modest, does not wear his heart on his sleeve, and is dutiful to wife or lover, and to family. A real man provides for and protects those he loves.

All those attributes that allowed men to drag down mammoths for their families and communities in prehistoric times - aggression, competitiveness, decisiveness - still survive and govern the most basic aspects of sexual attraction, marriage and child rearing.

This does not make a man superior, but underpins the fact that men and women complement each other, bringing unique gifts to the business of ensuring the survival of the species.

I think that is an important thing for men to consider.

In meritocratic America, where welfare is harder to get, self-betterment is a constituent part of staying fed and housed. Men cannot afford to be feckless. If they don't help themselves, no one will.

I think that is an important thing for men to consider.

The feminist lobby, which has achieved much for women over the past 40 years, must take its foot off the accelerator. It is established beyond doubt that men and women are equal in all fields ranging from human dignity to employment rights, but this must not be allowed to evolve into the idea that men and women are the same.

I think that is an important thing for men to consider.

Men must learn to reclaim manliness, not in the machismo mould of previous generations, but in a modern incarnation that will serve as an anchor in the shifting sands of today's gender politics.

Now this line I have a bit of a problem with, because it does basically say: "well the men of old were broken, so don't be like them."

Admittedly, that line is not exactly anything that men need to hear.

...However, articles that steer men away from the current "lady-boy" image are a good thing.  Like I said... this one isn't perfect, but it beats what I'm used to seeing & is a step in the right direction.

[Stallywood]

So this article about what duties men should perform reminds you of an empowerment article? Well I suppose it might be if you mean it empowers the women they will be performing the duties for.

A man defines manliness by existing. The article makes it sound like a man is a social construct. I think I was actually born naked.

On the money...
Stally

[Christiane]

All hail the modern caveman. But wait a minute. Before we even ask what kind of man modern women really want, how exactly are we defining manliness? My dictionary lists "courage, valour and energy" as key characteristics of the manly man. But by that measure, my wife, who has gone through the horror of childbirth and who runs a family of six, is more of a man than me.

The man is obviously being financially sucked dry by a SAHM.   He has lost all credibility.     :wink:

All those attributes that allowed men to drag down mammoths for their families and communities in prehistoric times - aggression, competitiveness, decisiveness - still survive and govern the most basic aspects of sexual attraction, marriage and child rearing.

This does not make a man superior, but underpins the fact that men and women complement each other, bringing unique gifts to the business of ensuring the survival of the species.

I agree those biological instincts are here, and that we should respect them, and this is what feminism seeks to destroy.   But I don't agree that men are not superior.   I think men are superior in many ways - not every way, but many ways.   The whole "equality" bit is feminist brainwashing.   Are we equal in value as human beings?  Of course.   But are we equally capable given certain tasks at hand?   Absolutely not.      

In the Christian tradition, the man has a set of immutable duties towards wife and family that cannot be overlooked, and these duties rest on the ethics of personal responsibility, morality and, overriding all this, a responsibility to provide for the family. How dramatically those duties have been eroded.

Yes, the goal of feminism is to finish stripping men of their leadership role in the family.    And the respect of the family for him.  

I thought this was a good article.   Not perfect, by any means, in that it did stress what women want from men, but the current climate of brainwashing can account for that.   It's a step in the right direction, IMO.

[bluedye]

Well it's like this.   I've read a fair amount of articles & seen a fair amount of Dr. Phil / Oprah types that have zero respect for masculinity & that gets me pretty pissed off.

When an article comes along that views manliness as something to be proud of & not to flee from... That tends to make me happy.   The article has a couple of shots fired at the feminist movement, so again... tends to make me happy.

This type of article is article is uncommon & I'm a "bird in the hand" type of guy.   I'll take anything that doesn't cut men down at the ankles at this point.

I wish there were hundreds of men like Carey Roberts out there writing for all of the major media outlets, but until that happens...  I'll be appreciating every article about men that isn't just another thinly shrouded feminist propaganda piece.

[typhonblue]

...However, articles that steer men away from the current "lady-boy" image are a good thing.  Like I said... this one isn't perfect, but it beats what I'm used to seeing & is a step in the right direction.

To belabor the point I made... In Japan meterosexual is the default. I have heard countless posts on here about how superior asian women are to western in terms of warmth and respect(desire) directed to men.

Are the two connected? A society of men who take pride in their appearance and dress attractively have created a society of women who respect men and desire them.