Does Christianity have something to do with Feminism?

Started by typhonblue, Jul 17, 2006, 04:57 PM

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Does Christianity have something to do with Feminism?

No
15 (68.2%)
Yes
4 (18.2%)
Maybe
3 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: Jul 17, 2006, 04:57 PM

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typhonblue

Just thought I'd start a poll to see people's opinions on the issue.

My personal opinion is that Christianity encouraged men to judge themselves by their sacrifices to women which laid the social groundwork for a misandrous movement like feminism.

What say you all?

BRIAN

I disagree with you. I think Christianity has been twisted into that by the FEMS. The tenents of Christianity is about loving others as you love yourself and doing the right thing so you are strait with God. There are some that have attempted to use it as a tool to shame men but that is not what the religion is about.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

typhonblue

Quote from: "BRIAN"
I disagree with you. I think Christianity has been twisted into that by the FEMS.


Who are you refering to when you say FEMS?

Quote
The tenents of Christianity is about loving others as you love yourself and doing the right thing so you are strait with God. There are some that have attempted to use it as a tool to shame men but that is not what the religion is about.


And yet there still is the problematic tenent, "a husband must love his wife as Christ loved the Church and sacrifice for her as Christ sacrificed for the Church."

That's a pretty powerful tool to shame men with and its written in the bible, unambiguous and no need for reinterpretation.

powder-monkey

Something I've heard said about Italians (and found to be true about some Irish-Americans):
"Even those who don't believe in God believe that Mary is his mother".

Daymar

There's also the fact that Christianity causes men to rely on women for so many of their emotional needs because men don't want to appear gay by being too friendly with other men. And then on top of that Christianity made it harder for women to be accessible to men by making women looked down upon for being too friendly with men.

dr e

I voted maybe.  I hold feminism responsible for the hatred it has acted out on men but I also think that there are likely multiple factors that have created the climate necessary to allow feminism to sprout and grow so quickly into such misandry.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Sir Jessy of Anti

At the same time, it must be pointed out that the bible clearly had commandments for the wife, and they were much more equally exacting than any modern interpretation of law.


*edit to add: the attitudes are another story entirely.  I am willing to entertain hypothesis to a point though.
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

typhonblue

Quote from: "Sir Jessy of Anti"
At the same time, it must be pointed out that the bible clearly had commandments for the wife, and they were much more equally exacting than any modern interpretation of law.


Yes, but what does it *mean* to be the head of someone you sacrifice everything for?

To put it another way, if you were offered two options... the first option is to rule over your spouce, yet you have to sacrifice yourself to their every benefit and need. The second option is to submit, but submit to someone who sacrifices themselves for your every need and benefit...

Which would you choose?

BRIAN

Quote
Who are you refering to when you say FEMS?


I use FEMS in all caps instead of typing out "Feminists" over and over.

Quote
And yet there still is the problematic tenent, "a husband must love his wife as Christ loved the Church and sacrifice for her as Christ sacrificed for the Church."


I think that speaks more to the fact that marriage is a sacred thing and it comes with a great deal of responsibility. If you will put things in a historical perspective at the time Christianity was forming men still held complete sway as head of the houshold, what the father said was like unto law. As a result of this the father was responsible for everything the members of his household did. There are a lot of things that can be taken out of context and used against the faith.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

typhonblue

Quote from: "BRIAN"
Quote
Who are you refering to when you say FEMS?


I use FEMS in all caps instead of typing out "Feminists" over and over.


Do you mean that feminists have twisted the perception of Christianity?

Quote
If you will put things in a historical perspective at the time Christianity was forming men still held complete sway as head of the houshold, what the father said was like unto law. As a result of this the father was responsible for everything the members of his household did. There are a lot of things that can be taken out of context and used against the faith.


Your argument seems to refute the idea that women should "submit" rather then that men should "sacrifice".

BRIAN

Quote
Your argument seems to refute the idea that women should "submit" rather then that men should "sacrifice".


No it doesn't. My argument is that things can be taken out of context and twisted. At this point we are talking about men and their obligations. We have not talked about women and their obligations at this point. You mention the submission of women to men in christianity. An example of this is often twisted by the FEMS to justify orfination of female clergy. There is a part of the resurection story where Jesus appears to some women and he tells them to go tell their husbands where they can find him. The FEMS take this out of context and try to say Jesus is giving them license to preach and minister.  In a larger context Jesus is telling them to go get the person that is the final authority in the family, in this case the man so that he can be recognized. I have to appolagize for not being able to cit chapter and vers from the bible it has been years since I went to Sunday School or attended church regularly.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

Christiane

I voted no.   I think feminism is just plain wrong, and good people of all religions have been misguided.   Brainwashed in fact.  None of us are immune to brainwashing.   That's what we need to counter with truth.

typhonblue

Quote from: "BRIAN"
No it doesn't. My argument is that things can be taken out of context and twisted. At this point we are talking about men and their obligations. We have not talked about women and their obligations at this point. You mention the submission of women to men in christianity. An example of this is often twisted by the FEMS to justify orfination of female clergy. There is a part of the resurection story where Jesus appears to some women and he tells them to go tell their husbands where they can find him. The FEMS take this out of context and try to say Jesus is giving them license to preach and minister.  In a larger context Jesus is telling them to go get the person that is the final authority in the family, in this case the man so that he can be recognized. I have to appolagize for not being able to cit chapter and vers from the bible it has been years since I went to Sunday School or attended church regularly.


Fair enough. Now how was what I quoted taken out of context and twisted?

Is there another, correct interpretation regarding the biblical imperitive that men sacrifice for their wives as Christ sacrificed for the church?

Because I've also read the writings of Christian men who seem to interpret that verse to mean, literally, that men provide and sacrifice for their wives' wellbeing.

BRIAN

Quote
Fair enough. Now how was what I quoted taken out of context and twisted?

Is there another, correct interpretation regarding the biblical imperitive that men sacrifice for their wives as Christ sacrificed for the church?

Because I've also read the writings of Christian men who seem to interpret that verse to mean, literally, that men provide and sacrifice for their wives' wellbeing.


You are taking it out of context by isolationg it and not talking about the wifely obligations the bible spells out that go hand in hand with it. And so what if some men write about a litteral intepretation, if you truly love someone you will sacrifice for their well being. There are Holy Roller Pentcostals who take things out of context to justify handeling snakes and drinking strychnine at their services. Does that make Christianity bad? What about Jehovahs Witness' who refuse blood transfusion because they take an old testament passage about consuming blood(It was part of a pagan ritual forbiden by Kosherite law) out of context to mean taking blood into the body in any way? That is what I mean by taking things out of context.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

Sir Jessy of Anti

Quote
Yes, but what does it *mean* to be the head of someone you sacrifice everything for?


It can mean many different things.  A team is a unit that needs to work together to achieve, and teams benefit from leaders (as an example).

I am saying it is simplistic to view the christian theology through the lens of feministic paradigms, which you unwittingly seem to do.
.
I am not a christian, but I guarantee I have read more scripture than you care to.
My interpretation is that the scripture doesn't mean what you infer it to mean when you quote it in isolation.  
A living work has a framework, and you can't pick and choose elements of that framework to make your case in isolation.  

Equally, scripture shows that wives have little choice when a husband chooses an actionable course and follows it.  Are we to infer that they were simply following the omnipotent commanding vagina of the day?
Perhaps they were so whipped they built golden vaginas and self-flagellated themselves before ordering their wives  and children to do that which they commanded?
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

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