3yr-olds to be taught about gay relationships

Started by selkie, Jul 22, 2006, 11:06 PM

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LibertarianDad

Strangedisk or any other left-wing readers,
What parameters do you believe defines the left? Mandatory arrest and no-drop prosection laws, so-called "sexual harrassment' laws, so-called "domestic violence statutes" and the "Violence Against Women Act" (to name but a few) were authored by Democratic Party members of the so-called "ultra-liberal" persuasion. These statutes are brainchild of neomarxist dogma. They werent created by conservatives or Libertarians.
           Also the alarming report by Tammy Bruce's "The New Thought Police" is deeply disturbing because the very people who claimed to be protecting Due Process and civil rights are the very ones who've subverted them with their embellished melodrama and demands for "womens protection" at any cost. Why doesnt this outrages trend disturb you??

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761563733/sr=8-1/qid=1153806107/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3306111-7904131?ie=UTF8

ghost

Last time I checked, the Libertatian Party supported VAWA. It seems they have taken it off their website now... I swear it was there a few months ago.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041116035046/www.lp.org/issues/lp-oss.html
Here is a pretty sweet page too.
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Step 1. Protect Victims' Rights

Protecting the rights and interests of victims should be the basis of our criminal justice system. Victims should have the right to be present, consulted and heard throughout the prosecution of their case.

In addition, Libertarians would do more than just punish criminals. We would also make them pay restitution to their victims for the damage they've caused, including property loss, medical costs, pain, and suffering. If you are the victim of a crime, the criminal should fully compensate you for your loss.


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Step 3. Get Tough on Real Crime

The Libertarian Party is the party of personal responsibility. We believe that anyone who harms another person should be held responsible for that action. By contrast, the Democrats and Republicans have created a system where criminals can get away with almost anything.

Can anyone guess what this amounts to? :vomit3:

The Gonzman

Quote from: strangedisk
Quote from: "Gonzokid"
Quote from: "strangedisk"
Why do I care about this?  Because, frankly, many threads on this board make it look like a left-bashing board, as opposed to a men's rights board.  Men's rights is a human issue, not specifically an issue of any particular political leaning.  

Bullshit.  It is time to grow up..


Bullshit -- so which part is bullshit?  That I care about it?  That this board looks like a left-bashing board?  That men's rights is a human issue?  What?.


Because Leftism and Feminism are more or less one and the same.  I don't oppose affirmaqtive action for women - I oppose affirmative action.  I don't oppose feminist identity politics - I oppose identity politics.  I don't oppose the welfare state for women - I oppose the welfare state, PERIOD.  It's wrong, it is ignorant, they are morally bereft and indefensible positions.

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Seriously, Gonzokid, this "friend of my enemy" stuff of yours is getting old.


"Getting Old"  Ancient Leftspeak for "I couldn't refute it then, and I still can't."

My enemy is your friend.  Sorry you're uncomfortable with reality
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If The Left (the political machine that the FEMS influence) has lost its bearings and philosophy, then its my job as one of "the left" to point that misandry is directly 180 degrees opposed to the values that we (the left) traditionally hold dear.


Then hie thee hence and do it, and stop whining that people are observing that you have an unholy alliance with the feminazis.

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This willing refusal on your part to separate what a politican does and the philosophy they proclaim from others who proclaim the same philosophy (as in The Left and even to some point feminists) is biased, as you don't seem to have any trouble making the distinction for The Right and conservatives.


It is the whole philosophy that is the issue, sir.  Feminists do not ally with right wingers precisely because they are intellegent enough to understand that their agenda will gain no traction in the ground of right wing philosophy

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In light of this bias, the (admittedly indirect) accusation that I "put my politics above the issue of Men's Rights" is in fact, pure hypocrisy.


I voted Democrat for 25% o my votes in the last local election because of their position on Men's Rights.  Tell me, which Republicans or Libertarians did YOU vote for on the basis of their MRA positions? (And remember, the Libertarian platform is consistantly MRA Friendly).

Thought so.  

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As for my deeply held beliefs, which are "left" (liberal) in their nature, no amount of "leaders" proclaiming them while shitting all over them is going to make me change my mind about the beliefs, as it shouldn't.


No, but you'll still keep voting for them, because better a leftie that shits on you than a rightie no matter what, eh?
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

ghost

Quote from: "Gonzokid"
Feminists do not ally with right wingers precisely because they are intellegent enough to understand that their agenda will gain no traction in the ground of right wing philosophy

And yet, they do, and it does. :?:

The Gonzman

Quote from: "ghost"
Quote from: "Gonzokid"
Feminists do not ally with right wingers precisely because they are intellegent enough to understand that their agenda will gain no traction in the ground of right wing philosophy

And yet, they do, and it does. :?:


Such as?  Zero-Tolerance sex harrassment?  Liberal Policy.  Affirmative action? Liberal policy.  Gender as a construct? Liberal Policy.  Abortion on Demand? Liberal Policy.  No fault divorce, willful ignorance of paternity fraud, Duluth Model, Draconian CS enforcement - All Liberal Brainchildren.

When we propose elimination of such things, who are the ones shouting us down, blocking it, filing suits, playing procedural games?  Liberals.  Who are the ones talking to us, putting things through committees, crafting laws?  "Righties."

Hmmm.  Doesn't even pass the sniff test.  Play again?
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

BRIAN

Gonzokid,

Well Done!
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

The Gonzman

Quote from: "ghost"
Last time I checked, the Libertatian Party supported VAWA. It seems they have taken it off their website now... I swear it was there a few months ago.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041116035046/www.lp.org/issues/lp-oss.html
Here is a pretty sweet page too.


Let's see - that would be incorrect.

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Quote

Step 1. Protect Victims' Rights

Protecting the rights and interests of victims should be the basis of our criminal justice system. Victims should have the right to be present, consulted and heard throughout the prosecution of their case.

In addition, Libertarians would do more than just punish criminals. We would also make them pay restitution to their victims for the damage they've caused, including property loss, medical costs, pain, and suffering. If you are the victim of a crime, the criminal should fully compensate you for your loss.


Quote

Step 3. Get Tough on Real Crime

The Libertarian Party is the party of personal responsibility. We believe that anyone who harms another person should be held responsible for that action. By contrast, the Democrats and Republicans have created a system where criminals can get away with almost anything.

Can anyone guess what this amounts to? :vomit3:


I didn't fail to notice you cherry picked out of there the whole belief in due process of the libertarians, as well as their belief that anyone who is found to fraudulently abuse the court system should be punished for it.

So - which part bothers you and makes you want to puke?  The idea that a crime is a crime against a person, and not the state?  Or the whole personal responsibility thing?
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

ghost

Whenever any ideologists speak of "personal responsibility", they always forget to mention that it's to be applied only to men. Do you think they had any intention to include women?

Similarly, when people rant about even harsher punishments for crimes, in practice it means that the depth of shit you fall into when falsely accused is increased even more.

The Gonzman

Quote from: "ghost"
Whenever any ideologists speak of "personal responsibility", they always forget to mention that it's to be applied only to men. Do you think they had any intention to include women?


Do you have any evidence to indicate that they don't?  You're making the claim here.

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Similarly, when people rant about even harsher punishments for crimes, in practice it means that the depth of shit you fall into when falsely accused is increased even more.


Mmm. I see.  And opposition to secret proceedings, imprisonment before trial, rape shield laws, abuse of process, protective orders without hearing, and such mean zilch to you?

Well, go ahead and stick with your republicrat pals, then.  They enacted this shit and are in no hurry to change it.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

ghost

Hmm... libertarians are opposed to rape shield laws? Show me, and I might change my mind.
This should be mainstream though, not something that only a small group of MRA libertarians believe.

LibertarianDad

I vouch for myself as a Libertarian and a civil rights activist (as opposed to an MRA) do hereby oppose Rape Sheild laws.

CaptDMO

Quote from: "ghost"
Hmm... libertarians are opposed to rape shield laws? Show me, and I might change my mind.

Well, this pretty much goes back to the original group of mainstream de facto libertarians...,
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Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Recognise it?
Don't mind the cobwebs!

The Gonzman

Quote from: "ghost"
Hmm... libertarians are opposed to rape shield laws? Show me, and I might change my mind.
This should be mainstream though, not something that only a small group of MRA libertarians believe.


The Libertarians are wholesale opposed to anything which makes it easier for a government goon to trump up charges and restrict one's right to defend themself.  The thing is to a Libertarian, it is not an MRA issue, but a citizen's issue - make it easier for the government to prosecute is laying a foundation for tyranny. Libertarians oppose rape shield laws for the simple reason that when the power of the state is brought to bear against an individual in a criminal trial, the defense should not be categorically impaired because of the nature of the crime. If a particular question about the victim is deemed irrelevant, the prosecutor may so object, and the judge may sustain or overrule.

Also, for a specific thing, try 2004 Libertarian Presidential Candidate Michael Badnarik, for instance:

http://badnarik.org/plans_parentsrights.php
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Mr. X

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Last time I checked, the Libertatian Party supported VAWA. It seems they have taken it off their website now... I swear it was there a few months ago.



The current lib party is hijacked, plain and simple. No self respecting libertarian activily supports the party. There was a huge falling out in Portland at their last meeting. The party has become like a third stringer party for candidates that can't get elected in the dem or rep categories. It has diverged from libertarian ideals and does what you show, caters to anybody that will vote for them.

A libertarian party is an oxymoron. Libertarians don't agree with government so they won't form a party.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

ghost

Hmm.. I thought libertarianism is about small government, not no government at all? That would be anarchism, no?

If you say that the party doesn't matter... then there is no central organisation at all, on which we could judge libertarians and learn about the libertarian position on various issues?

So basically libertarianism a set of abstract ideals, but there is no agreement on how to follow them? What does libertarianism mean in practice?

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