New maternity leave laws in UK

Started by shard43, Oct 02, 2006, 11:44 PM

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The Gonzman

Well, if I had to live under those laws, I'd never hire a woman.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

VK

I'm fairly sure men in the UK can take several months paternity leave when a new child enters the household (either sex can also take time off at the start of an adoption to help new kid settle in). Not as long as women can take, but there are plans to extend it (and the sooner the better in my opinion!)

Would these new laws extend to men in a similar way (i.e. if your partner gave birth the day you were supposed to start a new job can you take the time off) ?

The Gonzman

I don't think they should exist, period.  Make yourself valuable to your employer.  That way if you need time off, they will be willing to work with you to get you back.

It's called a "work ethic" as opposed to socialist bullshit.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

The Biscuit Queen

This makes me embarrassed to be a woman. This is absolutely special treatment based on gender. If a man were to voluntarily do something to take himself off the job market for a year, like say throw himself off a mountain and break all his bones, I would not expect a company to pay him for that year he is in traction. These women have a responsibility to thier employers to deliver on the contract....work in exchange for pay and benifits. If they VOLUNTARILY break their half of the bargain, why should the company be forced to keep theirs?
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Mr. Bad

Quote from: "devia"
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Problem: Women get pregnant and take maternity leave, costing not only the company money but also the consumer. Men don't get pregnant and thus don't take maternity leave



Socay... lucky for the boys? Lucky for the girls?

Not sure of your point here.


See Gonz's first response, next page.
"Men in teams... got the human species from caves to palaces. When we watch men's teams at work, we pay homage to 10,000 years of male achievements; a record of vision, ingenuity and Herculean labor that feminism has been too mean-spirited to acknowledge."  Camille Paglia

FP

Hardly surprising and I too see it happening here in the US eventually. What gets me in arguments I have on this issue is that invariably I'm called a cold heartless bastard ( or selfish white collar/blue collar/engineer/lawyer/anti family/anti kid jerk ) when I mention I'm not too keen on having to pay out of my own pocket for other people's kids via working extra to pick up the slack when the "empowered woman" goes on maternity leave. Why do I have to pay for other people's crotch spawn directly out of my pocket when I didn't get the fun of making said spawn? Are my taxes not enough for parents? I have to donate extra time and sometimes not get paid for it? I don't remember my parents asking for special consideration because they had a kid.. oh wait, thats because they ran their own businesses and worked out deals with babysitters, other families, or took me with them.

Mr. Bad

Quote from: "The Biscuit Queen"
This makes me embarrassed to be a woman. This is absolutely special treatment based on gender. If a man were to voluntarily do something to take himself off the job market for a year, like say throw himself off a mountain and break all his bones, I would not expect a company to pay him for that year he is in traction. These women have a responsibility to thier employers to deliver on the contract....work in exchange for pay and benifits. If they VOLUNTARILY break their half of the bargain, why should the company be forced to keep theirs?


Very good point BQ.  Considering the multitude of options for contraception - plus the option of post-conception abortion and giving up the child immediately after birth or through traditional adoption later - pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood in this modern world is strictly voluntary for women.

Therefore, if women choose to become mothers then they should be held solely responsible for their voluntary choices and not force the rest of us to pick up the slack for them.
"Men in teams... got the human species from caves to palaces. When we watch men's teams at work, we pay homage to 10,000 years of male achievements; a record of vision, ingenuity and Herculean labor that feminism has been too mean-spirited to acknowledge."  Camille Paglia

devia

Quote

Therefore, if women choose to become mothers then they should be held solely responsible for their voluntary choices and not force the rest of us to pick up the slack for them.


Following that logic fathers are nothing more then sperm donators with no rights or liabilties.

The Gonzman

Quote from: "devia"
Quote

Therefore, if women choose to become mothers then they should be held solely responsible for their voluntary choices and not force the rest of us to pick up the slack for them.


Following that logic fathers are nothing more then sperm donators with no rights or liabilties.


Well, except when it comes to writing a check, that is pretty much how we're treated, yeah.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

devia

Quote
Well, except when it comes to writing a check, that is pretty much how we're treated, yeah.


Forgive me if I'm wrong but hasn't your own daughter posted on the board enough for me to call bullshit regarding just beng a check.

Mr. Bad

Quote from: "devia"
Quote

Therefore, if women choose to become mothers then they should be held solely responsible for their voluntary choices and not force the rest of us to pick up the slack for them.


Following that logic fathers are nothing more then sperm donators with no rights or liabilties.


Not at all. Because for all practical purposes fertility is controlled soley by the woman, men are left out of the decision-making loop vis-a-vis bringing a concieved embryo to term.  Therefore, the persons with the sole ability to make such decisions are (or at least should be) the ones with sole responsibility for consequences of them.  To use a military analogy, it would be like holding a private responsible for the decisions that his/her CO made.

However, you're partially correct: Men don't have any rights once coitus occurs, but they sure are forced to take on many, many liabilities for decisions they have no power to make.
"Men in teams... got the human species from caves to palaces. When we watch men's teams at work, we pay homage to 10,000 years of male achievements; a record of vision, ingenuity and Herculean labor that feminism has been too mean-spirited to acknowledge."  Camille Paglia

The Gonzman

Quote from: "devia"
Quote
Well, except when it comes to writing a check, that is pretty much how we're treated, yeah.


Forgive me if I'm wrong but hasn't your own daughter posted on the board enough for me to call bullshit regarding just beng a check.


How we're treated under the law, and what the reality is are two different things entirely, Devia.  I have my daughter's love.  I finally won custody - damn near to late - DESPITE the best efforts of social workers and their ilk to derail it.

As far as they are concerned, a man who writes a check once a week and refuses to have anything else to do with his kids is a better father than one who is an engaged father but short on cash.

But if you don't believe it, do call and complain to the prosecutor that your children's father pays his support religiously but won't visit them.   See if they don't tell you "Tough Shit."  I know that isn't your situation, but I sincerely doubt you'll get asked an identifying question.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

LibertarianDad

Quote
It comes as research shows employment laws introduced by Labour since 1998 have cost the British economy around 37 billion, according to the CBI.

Damn. I remember the good ol' Thatcher days when living in England was one of my dreams. Now living there with my daughter would be dangerous. What a damned shame that this wretched party of communist assholes cant be ousted.  :cry:

The Biscuit Queen

Devia, men do not get a year paid paternity leave. They MAY get a few weeks unpaid leave, but many times it is clear that if they choose to use that they will face reprecussions at work.

Men usually are fathers after their first job is done. Just as many mothers are. They just do not get the benifits of paid maternity leave.

I totally support parents staying at home with kids. I think when you have kids, you should raise them. The problem is when you take a job you have a responsibility to that employer to fulfill the role you promised when you took on that job.  You do not have the right to make a commitment then break it, THEN force the party you just screwed to pay you for it. Women who do this cost companies millions, they cost taxpayers, they cost consumers. If men were taking large amounts of time off arbitrarily, I would tell them the same thing.

These women should have to give two weeks notice, take a year unpaid leave, then reapply for a job. I would refuse to hire a fertile woman if I were an employer. I swear these stupid feminists who dream up these policies are shooting us all right in the foot.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

devia

I think I might have written a half a page a page ago saying that these type of laws make any employer with half a sense say no to birthing age females?

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