virginia tech.

Started by outdoors, Apr 16, 2007, 02:39 PM

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JackBauersPowerHour

Things like this can't be prevented. Sometimes things go bad, people go wrong, and some innocent folks are at the wrong place at the wrong time.

In the end, the police department on that campus will take the blame. Because , quite simply, law enforcement in this country has been sued and sued and sued and threatened with lawsuits over and over until finally these agencies have submitted. No one is to blame for a wild crazed gunman losing his shit. But plenty are to blame for the PC liberal whining touchy feely Appletini sipping limp wristed culture that has pretty much cut the balls off of every law enforcement agency in America.

As for arming students or staff at a major university, you gotta be kidding me. People are, without a doubt, in general, fucking stupid. They would kill each other before they could be of any use in a situation like this. Every major university has a police department. While they might not be the cream of the law enforcement crop, they do have training and tactics on their side.

Things like this are not preventable. Major universities are wide open, densely packed and anyone can walk in and blend in easily. The logistics of having said university function requires it to be this way.

This was just bad luck and bad timing and bad situation, there was nothing anyone could do to stop it.

JBPH

neonsamurai

Sorry to hear about what happened over the pond guys. I was watching the news last night and the deathtoll just got higher and higher. 33 dead is unbelievably high.
Dr. Kathleen Dixon, the Director of Women's Studies: "We forbid any course that says we restrict free speech!"

The Gonzman

As for arming students or staff at a major university, you gotta be kidding me. People are, without a doubt, in general, fucking stupid. They would kill each other before they could be of any use in a situation like this. Every major university has a police department. While they might not be the cream of the law enforcement crop, they do have training and tactics on their side.


The Chicken Littles of the "Friends of Sarah Brady" keep pushing this false prophecy, and over and over, it not only fails to come true but the exact opposite occurs.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

zarby

Quote
Because , quite simply, law enforcement in this country has been sued and sued and sued and threatened with lawsuits over and over until finally these agencies have submitted.


This is really very wrong. Law enforcement now has pretty close to complete freedom from lawsuits. Yeah, you can sue them, but it is extremely unlikely you will win. This includes cases of extreme wrong doing. The legal doctrines have been whittled away until there is precious little left.

This type of rhetoric is extremely dangerous IMOH. The law through lawsuits is the only tool available to law abiding citizens to vindicate fundamental rights against the polie. I am talking about very fundamental rights like the right to not be beat, not be killed, etc.

There is no sympathy for "criminals" however every single person should realize that they are one accusation away from being a "criminal" and with the number of laws (sometimes ambiguous) out there an accusation is not hard to come up with.


TheManOnTheStreet

#19
Apr 17, 2007, 05:05 AM Last Edit: Apr 17, 2007, 06:40 AM by TheManOnTheStreet
Those three teachers/professors that held the door so that the students could get out, thus sealing their own fate, are heroes in my book!

Fox is still playing the "domestic dispute" angle... he was going after his girlfriend at first....

Yea, right....

If that were true, he wouldn't have just entered the first classroom and unload in it.  randomly, YES, RANDOMLY shooting students...

There may have been premeditation so some extent, but DV/DD is not it I believe.

Note: addition:  This man was a S KOREAN VISA STUDENT.  This is important.  What with all the American White Male Scumfest going on.

TMOTS
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

Sorry Isnt Good Enough


Those three teachers/professors that held the door so that the students could get out, thus sealing their own fate, are heroes in my book!

Fox is still playing the "domestic dispute" angle... he was going after his girlfriend at first....

Yea, right....

If that were true, he wouldn't have just entered the first classroom and unload in it.  randomly, YES, RANDOMLY shooting students...

There may have been premeditation so some extent, but DV/DD is not it I believe.

Note: addition:  This man was a S KOREAN VISA STUDENT.  This is important.  What with all the American White Male Scumfest going on.

TMOTS



Yeah, they had the old "white guy with a gun" queued up at Ginmar yesterday, until someone gave them the bad news.  Now they can only rail about gun control.
"To my considerable chagrin, we found that at least 60 percent of all the rape allegations were false." --Dr. Charles P. McDowell, Supervisory Special Agent, U.S. Air Force, Office of Special Investigations.

Virtue

I am so Glad Virginia Tech was a gun free zone....its great to know that everyone there is safe from dangerous guns and....


Wait a minute.....
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

poiuyt


... maybe the boy simply hated just about everything about everything. Should have taken time out. Or visited home...

VK



The lack of mental health services made available to males (at the same level as what is available to females, INCLUDING help specifically tailored to males and help available to males in a male-only forum) creates two problems -- first, the general lack of help facilitates this kind of thing, and second, it makes it look like a male problem.  It is a male problem, of course, in that males are not getting help whereas females are.

I'm not just referring to the lack of official support at the level of services, but also the lack of societal support.



http://news.bostonherald.com/national/south/view.bg?articleid=195244

Claims that he had been referred to the councelling service, and was on anti-depressants.



Some food for thought:

The perpetrator of this ghastly act was male.  However, most of the victims were likely male as well (being that Virginia Tech emphasizes science and engineering).   Also, the police and emergency crews were also likely to be predominantly male.

So males are overrepresented at the extremes of violence and heroism, with the common denominator being the willingness to take risks.  Fortunately, the heroes seem to predominate.

Steve


Have you seen
http://dailypundit.com/?p=25202

on an Engineering Professor who died saving his students lives. I think someone should put a statue up to him.

strangedisk

Yeah, I saw that.  It just said he was referred, I wonder if he actually went?  The antidepressants imply that he'd at least seen a psychiatrist. 

The note hints at targetting of "rich kids", which would make it a hate crime.  Although, that strikes me as odd, wouldn't he have to have some money himself to go there?

Mr. X

#25
Apr 17, 2007, 01:04 PM Last Edit: Apr 17, 2007, 01:07 PM by Mr. X
Quote
As for arming students or staff at a major university, you gotta be kidding me. People are, without a doubt, in general, fucking stupid. They would kill each other before they could be of any use in a situation like this. Every major university has a police department. While they might not be the cream of the law enforcement crop, they do have training and tactics on their side.


Yes so they should not be allowed to drive cars, use knives or power tools, procreate. How Hobbsean.


BTW I want to make a challenge. Can anyone name one thing that has been successfully banned with laws? One thing that people wanted that was fairly easy to get that was successfully and completely removed from society even under the most draconian laws. The claim is if guns were illegal, no one would have guns. So lets take a look at that track record shall we:

1. Cocain is illegal. If you have cocain you get arrested. Has that stopped cocain use? Can we safely say no one has cocain today because cocain is illegal with stiff sentences and jail time?
2. Prostitution is illegal in most places. Has it stopped?
3. if abortion were illegal today would that stop abortion?
4. If homosexuality were illegal today would it stop homosexuality.
5. We have draconian measures at airports. Has that truly stopped anything?
6. The ex-soviet union had draconian laws and was one of the biggest police states in history with secret police and legal spying. But people still had guns, drugs, prostitution and political decent. Did even gulag time or death penalty stop these things?
7. Alchohol was illegal. We even had an alchohol ammendment making it unconstitutional to have alchohol. Did that stop alchohol?
8. We have the largest consentual crime population in the world. So we toss millions of gun owners into prison simply because they own an object? All these law abiding citizens in jail for doing nothing wrong other than owning something they choose to own? Wow, and that won't make people angry?
9. Even if all guns are illegal and scooped up and destroyed, people will still get guns. They will ship them in, get them from Mexico, rob the military or the police. National Guard armories are robbed all the time. And this doesn't include all the government officials and police and military who will sell guns on the black market.

So I put this challenge out to all the anti-gun people. Name ONE THING that has ever been banned even under the most draconian laws, that has ever been eliminated or reduced so low as to be a non-issue. That no one was able to get anyway.

BTW there was a kid last year who killed a few people on campus by driving his car onto campus and ramming them. Should we ban cars?
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Mr. Bad

Oh man, the feminist blogosphere is starting to heat-up with chatter about how many of them wish it had been a "white boy" who had done the shooting.  They're afraid that now Asian men will be targeted for stereotyping, abuse, etc.  And all this right on the heels of the Duke Lacrosse hoax.

The shameless racism, sexism and hypocrisy in the feminist world is sickening. 
"Men in teams... got the human species from caves to palaces. When we watch men's teams at work, we pay homage to 10,000 years of male achievements; a record of vision, ingenuity and Herculean labor that feminism has been too mean-spirited to acknowledge."  Camille Paglia

VK


Yeah, I saw that.  It just said he was referred, I wonder if he actually went?  The antidepressants imply that he'd at least seen a psychiatrist. 




I don't know about the US, but in the UK it's fairly common for a GP to perscribe AD's, especially if they know there will be a long waiting time for a psychiatrist. I'd put my money on had been refered and was delayed getting an appointment by long waiting lists, which will all suddenly become much shorter now this has happened. The waiting list for a councellor at my uni last time I tried was 6 weeks. Until a student killed themselves last term - now it's less than two days.
Hopefully this will bring up more awareness of the importance of having sufficient resources to deal with mental health issues in college. Then at least some good would come of it.



VK



Note: addition:  This man was a S KOREAN VISA STUDENT.  This is important.  What with all the American White Male Scumfest going on.

TMOTS


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

From the looks of it, it seems as though early media reports of the gunman were a bit off. The current statements are that he is

"Cho Seung-hui, a South Korean national living in Virginia as a United States permanent resident. He arrived in the US with his family as an eight-year-old child in 1992."

From http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/us/17virginia.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Virtue

Well there is an established link between antidepressants and an increased risk of suicide (beyond the fact that if your taking antidepressants your more prone to begin with).....I am betting that the antidepressants played a role here......How much of a role I am uncertain.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

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