Another Feminist bites the dust. Same old Same old.

[dr e]

In her introduction a new member Kate posed the question of the harm that feminism might be causing or not causig to boys and men.  Sorry Kate if that is not exactly what you meant.  I think it's an important question and will start off and I hope others will join in with their ideas.

Imagine a family with a mother, father, two boys and two girls.  In this family the girls are given special privileges.  They get special desserts, a special diet and are taken on special outings simply becuase they are girls.  At school the classes have been designed to h elp them learn and much of the curricula is girl centered.  Talking is important to your grades.  The girls are taught special chants and slogans and are praised for repeating them.  An example is "I am a woman (girl) of power."  Extra credit is given for pumping the fist in the air while proclaiming this little ditty.  The girls are given chores but they usually are daintier and less grueling than those given the boys.  When punishments are given the girls get special treatment and are often ex cused for htting the boys since they are simply defending themselves while the boys are given harsh punishments for hitting their sisters.  Everything is done to help the girls self-esteem be as high as possible.  The rules favor the girls and often there are rules that give punishments to a behavior that is done to a girl but no punishment for the same thing done to boys.

All the while the boys are told that all of this is being done for the girls since in families prior to theirs the girls didn't get as much. Now it is time to make up for that.  They are told that is just the way it is.  They are also told that much of this is their fault.  Boys and men historically have been the problem and that they shouldn't try to be powerful like their sisters, they should try to be humble and simply take it like a man.  They don't have any chants for the boys, they tell them that being a boy is not a great start and that he needs to strive to counter his biology and his natural instinct to be masculine by being more like his sisters. 

Now tell me.  Does this system hurt the boys?

DUH.

[The Gonzman]

Yes, feminism hurts boys; so much so that if it were within my power I would remove boys from the custody of feminist mothers.

[zarby]

 
I take my children over to my sister's household frequently to visit.

She is affluent with a nice house. She lives "the good life."

She has three children -- two girls and one boy.

Her children are very successful. The oldest (a girl) got admitted to a prestigous university.
She has gotten awards for various things, etc.

My two boys spent several days over there over the Easter holiday.

They came back pointing out that the girls have nicer things in their room than the boy.
The girls don't do chores. They boy does all kinds of chores.

The statement was made that the the "[boy] is not loved as much."

Further, "mom [my ex-wife] says [sister] never wanted any boys -- just girls."

I actually don't think any of these things are true. This boy started life as an extremely
premature baby. His parents went to great lengths suffering huge hardships to get
him started out right in life. I know they love him as much as the girls. I do suspect
though that he does far more chores than the girls. I don't know who has the most
goodies in their rooms -- who has the newest computer, the biggest TV, etc.

I was shocked though that the boys picked up on this. I was disturbed that my
ex-wife apparently would say something like that.

I think at a minimum this story shows that boys are thinking about things like these.

[brian44]

I would say most of the depression, loneliness, lack of self-respect and poor self-image I have experienced over the decades is completely attributable to feminism. So yes, it has definitely hurt me.

[zarby]

That is interesting, Brian44.

I don't know your age or circumstances but you speak of decades so you must have some age on you.

I never felt harmed by feminism until my divorce but I have felt extremely harmed since that point.

I was shocked -- absolutely shocked -- at how I was treated.

I didn't feel harmed as a child or even a young adult.

I probably predated the worst abuses.

I graduated high school 1979.

I don't think these got really bad until the 1990s and after.

[brian44]

That is interesting, Brian44.

I don't know your age or circumstances but you speak of decades so you must have some age on you.

I never felt harmed by feminism until my divorce but I have felt extremely harmed since that point.

I was shocked -- absolutely shocked -- at how I was treated.

I didn't feel harmed as a child or even a young adult.

I probably predated the worst abuses.

I graduated high school 1979.

I don't think these got really bad until the 1990s and after.

I'm in my 40s. My earliest memory of feminism was a programme about the redundancy of men, broadcast in the early 70s. There were aggressive feminist lesbians supporting the argument that women could one day reproduce without men, as only two X chromosomes were necessary.  They spoke of a man-free utopia where all evil would be eradicated without men. It was a studio debate, with a lot of hatred towards men. As I was a boy at the time, I found it quite disturbing to think that there were women out there that didn't think I was needed, or even deserve to exist. This left a scar on me. I'm old enough to remember a time when women did need men and the media didn't take every opportunity to destroy our self image or confidence. I remember a time when women were feminine. And I also remember a time when I didn't get depressed watching films or programmes where my gender was ridiculed to sell products or appeal to women. BTW, I have been complaining about the negative stereotyping of men since the 80s. I think at the time, most men didn't actually notice what was going on and why they didn't feel as good about themselves. Nearly all of the men I spoke to about this agreed with me after watching the media from a new perspective.

[zarby]

Yeah, I remember elements of extreme feminism from the 1970s but I considered them just wierdos.

I didn't think they had any real effect on my life. I viewed much as a bizarre cult or something.

Your comment about remembering women being feminine is so true.

I so rarely see a woman anymore who is truly feminine. I am not talking just about her body shape, etc.

I truly feminine woman carries herself differently and has a different attitude than most women now.

I do think the younger women may be reverting back to feminity (or never lost it). I visited a college campus a week or so ago and saw a number of women who seemed to me to have a "feminine" attitude and appearance. I wonder whether they will still have it at age 30 or 40 and beyond?

[brian44]

I do think the younger women may be reverting back to feminity (or never lost it). I visited a college campus a week or so ago and saw a number of women who seemed to me to have a "feminine" attitude and appearance. I wonder whether they will still have it at age 30 or 40 and beyond?

I wish I could say the same for London. When I see so many young women drunk and incapable of walking properly, or even collapsed in the street, I'm not too hopeful. I've actually seen women brawling in the street and it's not a pretty sight. I hope things really are better for you in your area though.

[The Biscuit Queen]

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Boys are

80% Ritalin users
80% teen suicides
most drop outs
most suspensions and expulsions
Less likely to score well on standardized testing (except math SATs?)
Less likely to graduate
Less likely to apply to or get into college
Less likely to graduate college

95% of elementary-high school school teachers are women


any more?

[brian44]

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Boys are

80% Ritalin users
80% teen suicides
most drop outs
most suspensions and expulsions
Less likely to score well on standardized testing (except math SATs?)
Less likely to graduate
Less likely to apply to or get into college
Less likely to graduate college

95% of elementary-high school school teachers are women


any more?

Outrageous. Imagine the seismic shock waves if those figures were for girls...

[JackBauersPowerHour]

Feminism has "separated" boys from men, and then I think the harm is implied.

Divorce has left kids to see Dad maybe 4 days a month if hes lucky. Now with such paranoia over child abuse and sexual abuse, good luck trying to find a talented strong male in the teaching or child care profession anymore. In fact, there is such hysteria going on, good luck finding males who want to be Big Brothers or Little League coaches or Boy Scout leaders or mentors anymore either. All it takes is one false accusation and your life is over.

There is no longer any structure in society left, except maybe sports, where men and boys can bond and boys can learn how to be men.

I think feminism is reaching for straws now. They can vote. They can apply for any job now. Theres nothing to whine about but the petty stupid things. No different than PETA or MADD now. Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, well the penalties for drunk driving are pretty extreme now. All they can do is demand the legal limit be lowered yet again, because thats all that they can bitch about. At some level, this is about justifying your job. If a woman's job is to push feminist issues and lobby, but there is no oppression going on anymore, what can they do except invent something? "Hey lets threaten to sue public schools to start programs just for little girls! That will justify my paycheck this month!"

Feminism will self destruct rest assured. Eventually they will be seen by society as a bunch of fucking idiots. No offense to PETA, but they've grasped at straws for so long that they look stupid most of the time now. Completely out of touch with the real world. Feminism will do the same thing. Eventually they will run out of things to cry about and people will stop listening. And finally people will look at feminists for what they are - a bunch of old, probably overweight nags who no man wants to fuck, marry or date. Any movement based on hate is bound to self destruct. That's why I've always said that MRAs shouldn't pan women indiscriminately like the way women piss on men, it only makes us as bad as them. It will only ensure our destruction in the end.

JBPH

[jaketk]

All the while the boys are told that all of this is being done for the girls since in families prior to theirs the girls didn't get as much. Now it is time to make up for that.  They are told that is just the way it is.  They are also told that much of this is their fault.  Boys and men historically have been the problem and that they shouldn't try to be powerful like their sisters, they should try to be humble and simply take it like a man.  They don't have any chants for the boys, they tell them that being a boy is not a great start and that he needs to strive to counter his biology and his natural instinct to be masculine by being more like his sisters. 

One of the foster kids I stay with grew up in a home similar to what you describe, though more violent. As I understand it, he was the only male in the home with several women and his sisters. While I cannot be sure those women were feminists, based on his behavior and the things he has occasionally stated about his experience, it would appear that their views about males are in sync with those feminists. But even outside of an extreme example like that, constantly being reminded that girls are better or need special treatment is not something boys will miss. One does not have to tell a person that is he lesser than someone else for the message to get across. All one need do is constantly tell the other person she is better or treat her better.

[Mr. X]

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Boys are

80% Ritalin users
80% teen suicides
most drop outs
most suspensions and expulsions
Less likely to score well on standardized testing (except math SATs?)
Less likely to graduate
Less likely to apply to or get into college
Less likely to graduate college

95% of elementary-high school school teachers are women


any more?

Only 12% of teachers k-8 are men.
Men die 5 times more on the job.
Men live on the average 8 years less than women.
In the vast majority of single parent households its the boy who will live without a same sex parent more than a girl.

[The Biscuit Queen]

Oh, you are right, it is 85% of teachers, not 95%, sorry!

[PaulGuelph]

It is hurting everyone.