Men, Women, Emotion and the 80/20 Rule

Started by stands2p, May 04, 2007, 09:28 AM

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The Biscuit Queen

In theory that is the way it should work. Our insurance covered a certain number of visits per year, but it was open ended. We chose to keep going for a year and a half, even though it cost us a lot. As I said the second therapist was more like what you speak.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

JackBauersPowerHour

They'll get the "only insurance" folks to move along, the cash cows who can afford to not have it "on record"  they will keep as long as possible.

But my point remains the same, they will ride you out and milk you as long as they can. Lawyers do the same thing.

The "Tony Sopranos" out there are the dream gig (except for the being whacked part). All cash, money is no object, discrete, the person will keep coming back.

dr e


They'll get the "only insurance" folks to move along, the cash cows who can afford to not have it "on record"  they will keep as long as possible.

But my point remains the same, they will ride you out and milk you as long as they can. Lawyers do the same thing.

The "Tony Sopranos" out there are the dream gig (except for the being whacked part). All cash, money is no object, discrete, the person will keep coming back.


Your argument assumes that people are too stupid to realize they are being milked by therapists who are smarter and more able to hoodwink them.  I don't think people are that stupid.  People are usually very careful with their money and don't throw it away on something they don't see as helpful.  I suppose your argument is like PT Barnums "There is a sucker born every minute." 

So tell me how many hours have you been in therapy? :greener:
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

stands2p

Therapy is just one form of counseling.  Most people will not get through life without needing some sort of skilled advice.  BQ's experience with two different therapists highlights the two kinds of counseling I mean: functional, learned advice vs. an endlessly sympathetic ear.

When I was in college, I had two different academic advisors.  The first asked me lots of questions about how I was adjusting emotionally to the University environment and how I felt about my classes and professors etc.  Being a freshman, I let her guide the conversation even though I was more interested in what courses to take etc.

The advisor I had closer to graduation always began by laying my transcript and my graduation requirements side by side and talking about getting from where I was to where I wanted to be.  Towards the end of the session, he might ask: "everything going okay?" and I might say something like: "the stress is a bitch." and he'd say: "give me a call if you need anything."

I work in technology support so I see lots of people having technical problems.  Some people describe the problem and want to know how quickly it will be fixed.  Some people get hung up on trying to describe how much of a disruption the problem is and how important it is that it be fixed quickly.  I've had people try to call meetings, pulling my techs off task to discuss the urgency of fixing the problem.  I try to impress on the kids that work the incoming support calls that they are not grief counselors, their job is to get the relevant technical details but if I am too critical, they start to cry.

Auto mechanics are one of the signposts marking the great gender divide.  I think this might have something to do with certain people wanting to bring their "personal transportation needs" to a discussion about a defective transmission solenoid.  There is an advert for a car rental agency in which a woman comes in with a sleeping child on her hip and a story about a minor accident.  The rental clerks scurry around to get her a rental car and have her car towed to a repair shop, all without waking the child.  That level of service sounds excessive to me, and expensive.  Maybe women get charged more by mechanics because they ask for more.
The Lord works in strange ways; and with strange people.

dr e

Stands2p - I think your initial observation is right on the money.  Men and women have very different systems both physically, psychologically and emotionally.  With the advent of the work of Shelly Taylor out of UCLA we now know that what you are describing is a result not of purely socialization but of hormones.  Women when stressed, will move towards others and interact.  They will emote openly and want to be cared for and nurtured.  This is now understood to be related to the hormones estrogen and oxytocin.  When stressed we all get oxytocin released into our bloodstreams.  Oxytocin is called the "Cuddle" hormone since it makes you want to cuddle and snuggle up and talk.  What Taylor found was that the woman's estrogen AMPLIFIES the effects of the oxytocin so she really wants to "affiliate" when stressed.  She will move towards others and towards interaction in what Taylor has dubbed the "Tend and Befriend" response.  We are all familiar with this response having seen it repeatedly in our female family and friends.  Importantly for us Taylor also found that men have a different experience.  Their testosterone NEGATES the oxytocin and they simply don't have the same need to cuddle and affiliate.  The man's hormones move him into the fight or flight response where he either connects his stress with action (fight) or he pulls back and ponders (flight).  Of course both of these reactions have been shamed by women for years.  The man is "Not dealing with his feelings" etc etc.  The man's brain is built to solve problems.

Therapy is built primarily for women.  Why?  Because it is mostly women who come into therapy.  When a man comes into treatment he wants a consulting experience where he can find out what he needs to do to solve the problem and then get out.  Too often men have been forced by female therapists (who don't know a thing about the male way of doing things) to mimic the female way of being, to sit and talk about it, to have eye contact, to talk about the past and to emote openly.  This drives most men freaking nuts.  It also is an insult to them since it is so profoundly ignorant of their nature. 

And so it goes.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

dr e

An interesting aside to this is that after having sex both men and women get increased oxytocin in their bloodstreams.  Guess what?  The woman's oxytocin gets amplified by her estrogen and she really wants to snuggle.  The man's oxytocin gets negated by his testosterone and he really wants to go and watch the game.  Been there?  :greener:

For years we have heard the harsh judgments of women about men not being interested in THEM after sex.  Those men don't care, they just go off and blah blah blah.  Ladies, now we know why.  Gentlemen, the game starts at 2:00. :toothy9:
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

shiva

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One of my big issues with feminism is the idea that there are no fundamental differences between men and women beyond plumbing.


That's fundamentally wrong by any rational standard because everyone is an individual. And the popular exclusive dichotomy of man and woman is wrong in itself, since there's many people who live between the two extremes. They are a minority, but not by that much. No doubt this can be partially attributed to chemical interferences et cetera, but since the dawn of time there have been all kinds of people who do not fit the strict definition of male or female. Whenever someone makes such a broad, generalized statement they are wrong by default; feminism frequently disregards or condescends to those who live outside their male/female dichotomy. (Not just homosexual/lesbian people, or transsexuals, but those who were born between the genders as well). 

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If they fix you (assuming they can...) then they stop getting paid.


I totally agree with that. Of course there are the few professionals who are working to help others, but the majority tends to be working for personal profit, and that is dependent on messed up clients who keep coming back. 
The above is the individual opinion of shiva. Unless stated otherwise, it's just an opinion; please do not confuse with a certified expert's individual opinion.

The Biscuit Queen

Many businesses have the problem of fixing something well they do not get paid. Auto mechanics, plumbers, electricians.

They can do a shoddy job to get them to come back, or they can do an awesome job and get their friends to come. Also, new problems might come, and a job well done means repeat customers.

I think a therapist can make a good living doing a god job. I think part of the reason some do not is a hold over from the days of Freud, where therapy was supposed to take years. I prefer the toolbox approach personally.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

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