Kids' article on throwing.

Started by lovingly angry young man, May 05, 2007, 10:07 PM

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lovingly angry young man


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The Girl Throw - Throwing Like a Girl

Courtesy Windsor Wildcats
"Hey, you throw like a girl!" Ever heard that on the field while playing ball with your friends? If you have, it means your throw kinda sucks.

The Girl Throw - What Is It?
The "girl throw" is that gimpy throwing style a lot of girls seem to have where it looks like they're almost "pushing" rather than hurling the ball. So what's the deal with the "girl throw?" Well, before going any further - let's get one thing straight. GIRLS CAN THROW. And many can throw harder and faster than a lot of guys. Softball players like Jennie Finch can chuck a ball close to 90 miles per hour. But many other girls still seem to throw really weird.
Many people think the reason for the "girl throw" is that guys and girls are somehow born with different kinds of arms and shoulders. Sure, there are a lot of physical differences between guys and girls (you've probably noticed) but the arm joint isn't one of them.

So what's the real reason. Well, it comes down to "practice makes perfect." Most boys grow up learning to 
throw - either playing catch in the backyard with their friends or by joining Little League. There are lots of girls that play baseball and softball at a young age as well. But many never learn to throw when they're a kid because their parents don't teach them or they chose to do other things. It's the same reason why kids from France speak French better than most kids from America - it's because they've been learning to talk that way since they were born. The bottom line is the phrase "throwing like a girl" is really outdated - because many guys and girls throw really well, and many don't.

So the next time you see someone on the field (guy or girl) with one of those strange throwing motions, don't say, "you throw like a girl". Instead say, "you suck, you're a loser, you can't throw at all, you should be embarrassed to even be on the field. Go play for the Cubs." 

http://www.kidzworld.com/article/371-the-girl-throw-throwing-like-a-girl
   


       
It's not wrong to give up, but I'm out there for you, my friend.

Mr. X

This seems similar to those pleas to kids to not use "gay" when refering to someone playing shadey or wimping out.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

lovingly angry young man

I agree,actually,that using that phrase would not be optimal. However, the encouraged response is a tad overblown.
It's not wrong to give up, but I'm out there for you, my friend.

JackBauersPowerHour

And this article will discuss the reality that males tend to have greater upper body strength in general compared to women when?

The article also fails to mention that Jennie Finch is listed between 6 feet tall to 6 foot 1 inch. The average American woman is what? 5'2-5'5? The average American male is 5'8 to 5'10 on the average. She is taller than most men she encounters on a daily basis.

The ability to gain velocity on the ball when throwing is often dependent on height. You can get into the argument about mechanics, conditions of the throwing surface, etc - but it's commonly known that taller people can generate more velocity on a thrown ball because of the impact of their increased pitching stride.

The article doesn't mention she started pitching at 8 years old. Far far younger than most boys even begin pitching.

You could take 100 little girls and give them all the professional training in the world, and they will won't be able to outthrow 100 randomly selected boys their age.

If you want to make a sweeping generalization, then say boys AND girls today are probably stronger, taller and faster  than kids their age 30 years ago. Nutrition is different. I wouldn't say better, but different. Information on health has changed. Information about the factors that promote/inhibit growth has changed. So if girls can throw much better now, well that means boys can throw even that much better than before as well.

JBPH

lovingly angry young man

JackBauersPowerHour:
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The article also fails to mention that Jennie Finch is listed between 6 feet tall to 6 foot 1 inch. The average American woman is what? 5'2-5'5? The average American male is 5'8 to 5'10 on the average. She is taller than most men she encounters on a daily basis.

I don't think they denied she's an exception.
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And this article will discuss the reality that males tend to have greater upper body strength in general compared to women when?
Or lower body strength. I don't know much about throwing outside of of track and field but legs make up up to 70% of power in the discus for example.
Quote
The ability to gain velocity on the ball when throwing is often dependent on height. You can get into the argument about mechanics, conditions of the throwing surface, etc - but it's commonly known that taller people can generate more velocity on a thrown ball because of the impact of their increased pitching stride.
However,some throwers holding current world or national records are not ridiculously tall.
It's not wrong to give up, but I'm out there for you, my friend.

gwallan


JackBauersPowerHour:
Quote
The article also fails to mention that Jennie Finch is listed between 6 feet tall to 6 foot 1 inch. The average American woman is what? 5'2-5'5? The average American male is 5'8 to 5'10 on the average. She is taller than most men she encounters on a daily basis.

I don't think they denied she's an exception.
Quote
And this article will discuss the reality that males tend to have greater upper body strength in general compared to women when?
Or lower body strength. I don't know much about throwing outside of of track and field but legs make up up to 70% of power in the discus for example.
Quote
The ability to gain velocity on the ball when throwing is often dependent on height. You can get into the argument about mechanics, conditions of the throwing surface, etc - but it's commonly known that taller people can generate more velocity on a thrown ball because of the impact of their increased pitching stride.
However,some throwers holding current world or national records are not ridiculously tall.


Umm...firstly see my avatar.

re throwing.
- upper body strength contributes only about ten percent.
- height is an advantage but only up to a point. Discus throwers do gain an advantage from height because of arm length and consequently top performers tend to be quite tall. Other throwing events and sports height isn't that much of an issue except for the fact that larger bodies can be made stronger(ie if everything else is equal the bigger athlete has an advantage which is true of just about anything).
- girls can throw but, as the article suggests, it's something their exposed to less than boys as they grow up.
- I've taught T&F throwing events to boys and girls for decades. Almost always the girls have to be taught to throw properly BEFORE the specific event techniques can be taught.
- you throw with your hips - NOT your arms.
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

dr e

My guess is that there are physical differences that impact the ability to throw.  When my daughter was very young she, um, threw like a girl.  No teaching, no nothing.  Her motion of throwing appeared awkward and inefficient.  When my son was very young he needed absolutely no instruction about how to throw.  He threw efficiently and effectively from the start.  The old "socially constructed" crap smells bad.  Boys and girls are different physically.   It seems more likely to me that for thousands of years boys were taught to throw for reasons of survival while girls were not given the same instruction or the same amount of practice time.  Over those thousands of years the bodies of boys developed and evolved to maximize this ability.  Lots of our differences can be traced to this idea.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

lovingly angry young man

Quote
Umm...firstly see my avatar.

re throwing.
- upper body strength contributes only about ten percent.
- height is an advantage but only up to a point. Discus throwers do gain an advantage from height because of arm length and consequently top performers tend to be quite tall. Other throwing events and sports height isn't that much of an issue except for the fact that larger bodies can be made stronger(ie if everything else is equal the bigger athlete has an advantage which is true of just about anything).
- girls can throw but, as the article suggests, it's something their exposed to less than boys as they grow up.
- I've taught T&F throwing events to boys and girls for decades. Almost always the girls have to be taught to throw properly BEFORE the specific event techniques can be taught.
- you throw with your hips - NOT your arms.

Why are you telling me this? I'm kind of a thrower myself. Not that I don't enjoy this topic.
The top throwers are always tall in comparison to the average. According to the testimonies of some of the greatest,height matters in other throws as well.It is not true of many other sports. 10%? What's your source?
It's not wrong to give up, but I'm out there for you, my friend.

The Biscuit Queen

I don't throw like a girl-and I can out throw most men in frisbee.  :tongue2:

Of course my damn dog will still take the disc to any man in a 100 yard radius, even if they can only throw 10 freaking feet!

:BangHead:

He is such a man dog.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

gwallan

#9
May 06, 2007, 09:14 AM Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 09:29 AM by gwallan

Quote
Umm...firstly see my avatar.

re throwing.
- upper body strength contributes only about ten percent.
- height is an advantage but only up to a point. Discus throwers do gain an advantage from height because of arm length and consequently top performers tend to be quite tall. Other throwing events and sports height isn't that much of an issue except for the fact that larger bodies can be made stronger(ie if everything else is equal the bigger athlete has an advantage which is true of just about anything).
- girls can throw but, as the article suggests, it's something their exposed to less than boys as they grow up.
- I've taught T&F throwing events to boys and girls for decades. Almost always the girls have to be taught to throw properly BEFORE the specific event techniques can be taught.
- you throw with your hips - NOT your arms.

Why are you telling me this? I'm kind of a thrower myself. Not that I don't enjoy this topic.
The top throwers are always tall in comparison to the average. According to the testimonies of some of the greatest,height matters in other throws as well.It is not true of many other sports. 10%? What's your source?

Sorry. Came off wrong. Not trying to disagree with you.
Larger bodies can be made stronger. Ergo at the top level larger athletes are more likely to succeed. Not arguing that.

This article isn't about the olympics. It's about more mundane, everyday people and about simple throwing action rather than anything specialised. I'm saying girls can be taught to throw quite effectively. Their different physique means their action needs to be a bit different but otherwise it's simply a matter of repetition - same as for boys. Boys are just more inclined to do it and tend to learn the best way on their own.

Source, aside from possibly simlar involvement to your own, was a publication from the late eighties which looked at olympic medalists and world record holders. Discus throwers are generally tall(bigger wing span, in those days about 6'4 tall), javelin(ave 6'1 surprised me) they're fairly spread, shot putters in between, and hammer throwers often short(advantage to smaller feet? more turns?). They're certainly all a couple of inches taller today but that's true in all sports.

There's actually a bit of a physical disconnect for women. As girls their body shape is roughly the same as the boys. As they mature the boy's physique greatly enhances his ability to generate energy. In women the change in body shape doesn't neccessarily help them in the same way. Top women athletes are generally on a par with top sixteen year old boys. Many boys grow into their twenties.

So there is a huge physical discrepancy but that still doesn't stop women from learning to throw efficiently.

Back in the dim dark ages I had the privilege of training with a number of world class athletes. One of them once spent several minutes lecturing me about how superior men were physically - particularly in sport. Her training partner nodded through all this and then said that the greatest compliment she'd ever received was being told she ran like a man. Because "men run perfectly". She had shoulders I would have killed for.


Sorry for edit but this prompted me to check google. I knew "shoulders" had married and headed to the US with hubby but I lost touch with her after that. This doesn't surprise me...
Powerhouse Gym, Bev Francis
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

The Biscuit Queen

 :yikes:

Damn. She could probably outlift most humans on this planet!

I have a lot of respect for those women, but I sure as hell would not want to look like that.

I am a girl, and I kinda like looking like one!
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

gwallan


:yikes:

Damn. She could probably outlift most humans on this planet!

I have a lot of respect for those women, but I sure as hell would not want to look like that.

I am a girl, and I kinda like looking like one!


It's one of the sources of my admiration for her at the time(I was eighteen). I reckon it's pretty gutsy for anyone to step outside the norm like that. She's actually really easy to talk to. I suspect she was a good teacher.
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

The Biscuit Queen

I agree, you are really opening yourself up for a lot of flak stepping outside the box. That is a hard one. She does not, IMO, look much like a woman, she looks more like a man in a bikini. If she likes that, more power to her. As I said, I sincerely have a lot of respect for a woman who works that hard to do something. That is many, many hours of work to accomplish what she has.

he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

The Gonzman


My guess is that there are physical differences that impact the ability to throw.  When my daughter was very young she, um, threw like a girl.  No teaching, no nothing.  Her motion of throwing appeared awkward and inefficient.  When my son was very young he needed absolutely no instruction about how to throw.  He threw efficiently and effectively from the start.  The old "socially constructed" crap smells bad.  Boys and girls are different physically.   It seems more likely to me that for thousands of years boys were taught to throw for reasons of survival while girls were not given the same instruction or the same amount of practice time.  Over those thousands of years the bodies of boys developed and evolved to maximize this ability.  Lots of our differences can be traced to this idea.


There is a book out that I use in the SCA when training female fighters called "The Armored Rose."  This discusses the very real physiological differences between men and women, and how to compensate for them in training.  I have used similar principles when teaching my daughter martial arts.

The up shot of it is, the problem is not that your little girl is throwing like I girl.  She's trying to copy all the boys throwing and is actually throwing like a boy, when her body is not designed that way.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Virtue

The woman bodybuilder in the above link has more free-circulating testosterone in her blood stream than most men....and thats because she injects it daily.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

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