Level of abortions reaches record high of 200,000 a year

Started by Mr. X, Jun 19, 2007, 10:38 AM

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Mr. X

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23401185-details/Level+of+abortions+reaches+record+high+of+200%2C000+a+year/article.do

And why not. If there exists no negative effect from abortion and positive encouragement then the numbers will go up.

1. Abortion is encouraged by various groups and the state as a viable solution to a baby "problem".
2. Abortion is encouraged to be acceptable, not just tolerated, but acceptable to the point of websites with stories from women boasting they don't feel guilty.
3. Access to abortion is made easy and inrestricted.
4. Negative comments about abortion are thoroughly discouraged.
5. In some cases the state even pays for abortion and pro choice groups continue to push for state funded abortions.
6. Even the catholic church is pressured to accept abortion and not condemn it.

So can anyone name one negative aspect of getting an abortion that society or the state promotes? If its easy to get one, no guilt, no objections and literally free then why would women not use this as their primary means of birth control? Why bother with the pill or with diaphrams and condoms. One rarely gets pregnant and its just a trip to the McAbortion clinic to suck the little trouble maker out. BAM! Problem solved. Plus getting pregnant is power since the female can compel the father to pay child support if she decides to keep the child.

Now as a semi-libertarian I accept that technically the woman can abort the fetus because technically she owns her body and can do what she wants. If she wants to cut off her fingers, thats her business.

But one area I am in a dilema about is proportionality. Proportionality talks about not shooting a kid to death for stealing a pack of gum from your store. You use only the equal amount of force against the crime. In the gum case the store owner would make the kid pay for the gum.

So with abortion I think the woman has the right to remove the fetus. I do NOT believe she has the right to call for its death. First trimester abortions result in death because there is no other way to remove the fetus but, what of a 7 month fetus that can live outside the womb. Can the woman call for the death of the fetus or merely call for its removal.

I think there is a BIG difference between the right to seperate oneself from a fetus vs thinking one has a right to actually kill the fetus. I think all the female has the right to do is disconnect herself and killing a 7 month old fetus would be like shooting a kid for stealing gum.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

devia

I don't understand the genral mra stand point aginaist  abortion.
We want more babies we don't want but shouldn't  have to pay for them . Men should be able to choose if they want to take on the resonsibilty of providing for these unwanted babies , a woman becomes a whome/forced caregiver under your system of justice.

]


Virtue

Where do you get that idea Devia?
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

The Gonzman


I don't understand the genral mra stand point aginaist  abortion.
We want more babies we don't want but shouldn't  have to pay for them . Men should be able to choose if they want to take on the resonsibilty of providing for these unwanted babies , a woman becomes a whome/forced caregiver under your system of justice.


I am pro-life in general, and I think any man who makes a fatherless child is scum - but I also think any woman who does is likewise scum, and abusive to the child.

I have zero sympathy for anyone who uses abortion as a form of retroactive birth control - and that is exactly how it is used anymore.  Given the availability and reliability of modern birth control, the abortion rate is absolutely shameful.  It is a result of both abject stupidity and gross irresponsibility.

And yes, women bear the brunt of that.  They all are the ones who get pregnant.  Your body, your choice, remember?  Also your responsibility.

That said, the law needs to be made fair - sole choice and no responsibility for women Vs.. no choice and forced responsibility for men?  Ain't even close to right.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Mr. X


I don't understand the genral mra stand point aginaist  abortion.
We want more babies we don't want but shouldn't  have to pay for them . Men should be able to choose if they want to take on the resonsibilty of providing for these unwanted babies , a woman becomes a whome/forced caregiver under your system of justice.

]



Strawman. Where did I say my stance was against abortion. Its a technically tolerated act, nothing more. But if the woman can terminate her responsibility then why can't a man? As it is, the woman is the one with all the choices, even outside the womb and men are stuck with the bills. Men won't vote to help women if the issue is so one sided.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

.

I oppose abortion because it takes an innocent human life (in other words, on the merits).  To wish that men had an equal right to carry out this violence is to validate the violence.  Most MRAs will look at abortion as an example of an imbalance of rights between men and women.  I look at abortion as killing and child abuse, and support efforts to curtail, restrict, or even outlaw it at every opportunity. 

Some MRAs look upon my position as throwing away a potential avenue of political progress for men, since "Roe-v-Wade for Men" is lately in the consciousness of the men's movement.  By being pro-life, I cede the issue of "men being allowed to evade responsibility for their choices," a right women now have in various forms.  But once a child is created by one's own actions, the following two responsibilities exist in my view:


  • Do no harm to your offspring.

  • Support your offspring.



Along the lines of "equaling the playing field" between men and women, I support the following:


  • Restrict abortion only to those cases necessary to save the life of the mother

  • Make DNA testing mandatory at birth, to prevent paternity fraud

  • Support scientific research and development of the artificial womb

  • Support scientific research and development of the male pill

  • Support both the legality and ease of surrogate parenting arrangements



All of the above five items do no violence to any child, and yet provide a host of benefits to men relative to women.

devia

<<<I have zero sympathy for anyone who uses abortion as a form of retroactive birth control - and that is exactly how it is used anymore.  Given the availability and reliability of modern birth control, the abortion rate is absolutely shameful.  It is a result of both abject stupidity and gross irresponsibility.>>>


A) Abortions hurt- birth control doesn't. 

B) No doubt abortion is a form of birth control after birth control has failed, and no doubt some girls are stupid enough to not to use birth control.

c) Both my daughters were conceived when I was on the pill. Birth control does fail (or at least it did 20 years ago

d) I am against unwanted children being brought into the world.


Garak

I don't agree with abortion but the way it works now is the worst it can be. It is a womans right to kill or her right to enslave a man.

I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

Virtue

In every statement Devia has made here not one relates to a womans responsibility......only her choices.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

.

I am against unwanted children being brought into the world.


There are tens of thousands of people on waiting lists, ready to adopt.  There is a huge demand.  These kids are wanted, just not by the murderess who thinks the baby's life is hers to destroy.  This is not about "compassion" for kids, snuffing out their lives so they can avoid a life of "not being wanted."  This is about power.  Female power, over life.

devia

In the sixties and before there were equal or more amounts of kids raise without parents. Ever seen footage of the Romanian orphans back in the 90's?


BRIAN

Devia,

You are making some broad accusations and pronouncements. Most of us here are Fathers. All of us here who are fathers would kill or die for our chldren and it is abhorent to us to even think of killing a child that we created, destroying the flesh of our flesh. What we have protested is the excessive ammounts of child support awarded by the courts, the fact the courts put no onus on the woman to use the childsupport for the welfare of the child, and the ability of women to take our children and use them as weapons against us, and paternity fraud that women can perpatrate without fear of criminal penalty. This is not simply an issue where we don't want to pay.

The Primarry reasons I am against abortion are:

1) It kills an innocent. I don't buy the hogwash that it is the womans body and thus her choice. The child is a seperate entity.

2) A woman can kill my child and I can do nothing to stop it I have no say in the matter(See the fatherhood flesh of my flesh thing above).

I really don't buy the thing about you concieving your daughters while on the pill either. The standard oral contraceptives of today are no different than the ones of 20 years ago and they have about a 99.9% effecacy. To have had it fail twice is about the same as getting struck by lightening, you should play the lotto with that kind of luck. But then I notice you have a personal anecdote to back up every One-upsman point you try to make.


 
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

Mr. X



A) Abortions hurt- birth control doesn't. 


Technically some birth control does have problems. The pill is a hormone dose. Abortions maybe temporary pain but its over in short order and women don't get pregnant each time they have sex. Ultimately it can be used for birth control.


B) No doubt abortion is a form of birth control after birth control has failed, and no doubt some girls are stupid enough to not to use birth control.

And no doubt some women figure that since there is no negative drawback they care about to abortion, why not use it instead of contraceptives. If woemn aren't doing this then how come the number of abortions has gone up and not down?



c) Both my daughters were conceived when I was on the pill. Birth control does fail (or at least it did 20 years ago

Either you had crappy birth control pills or that's highly unlikely. Two children both in the same household while taking the pill?


d) I am against unwanted children being brought into the world.


Um didn't you just say BOTH your daughters were born WHILE you were on the pill? That would mean both your daughters were unwanted, right? And just cause someone does not want a child doesn't mean one shouldn't be responsible for them? I don't want a fire in my home but if I accidently set my home on fire does that mean I don't have to deal with the responsibility?

Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

devia

I was 19 and 20- and like most people that age not so responsible,I'd forget to take my pill and that brings on ovulation. My daughters are 11 months apart so for the second one they hadn'y kicked in yet.

If we had not been able to support our children then we would not have had them. It's not like were going to agree on this but in my view having children you cannot support is child abuse.

And abortions HURT. Big time.

woof


I don't understand the genral mra stand point aginaist  abortion.
We want more babies we don't want but shouldn't  have to pay for them . Men should be able to choose if they want to take on the resonsibilty of providing for these unwanted babies , a woman becomes a whome/forced caregiver under your system of justice.

For myself it's plan and simple, it's murder.

Just because marriage has been trashed by the feminists dosen't mean the idea of creating a family is wrong.
Unwanted babies?....what ever happened to being responsible for your actions?.......the same standard that men are held to today.
Just because you want children dosen't mean you will be a good parent, and just because you don't want children dosen't mean you will be a bad parent.
People don't asked to be permently injured or have a life long illness but the deal with it, they rise to the occation.
As far as I am concerned woman have the same choice as men......."To keep their pants on."
Even a whole village can't replace dad, children need both parents.

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