Level of abortions reaches record high of 200,000 a year

[Mr. X]

I was 19 and 20- and like most people that age not so responsible,I'd forget to take my pill and that brings on ovulation. My daughters are 11 months apart so for the second one they hadn'y kicked in yet.

If we had not been able to support our children then we would not have had them. It's not like were going to agree on this but in my view having children you cannot support is child abuse.

And abortions HURT. Big time.

Well then it wasn't the pill that failed, it was YOU that failed to take the pill. If you WERE on the pill you WOULDN'T have gotten pregnant. That's like me saying cars kill... oh BTW I was driving recklessly and drunk... but cars kill.

[sharkhunter]

The "family" solved  this problem.

If a child is conceived, the child has a home. Period.

If the parents are faithful, both parents have a child. Period.

There is no need to kill the child.

There is no reason to enslave one of he parents.

The famly developed over thousands of years because it worked.

The family and faithfulness are what is necessary for men to participate in childrearing --this way the child[ren] is "his."

No longer, now, he child[ren] are not "his" -- the children can be taken away at the drop of feather by the mother and in fact often never were his (biologically) because so many women are not faithful (not longer a "value" and certainly no longer "mandated" in any meaningful way).

The fact that marriage and faithfulness make children "his" doesn't mean the children aren't also "hers." Marriage is sharing.

Men are supposed to be "responsible" and pay for child[ren] who they never intended, never agreed to, etc.

I say women should be "responsible" by not having children outside marriage, not destroying marriages (this is usually done by women), etc.

A man should be resonsible, yes, but he is not the only one that should be responsible.  There should be some responsibilities on women also. The women's movement to a large extent has been about elminating virtually every responsibility of women.

Any system of thought that leads to justification of killing of children (a "fetus" is undeniably a "child" long before birth) is unacceptable. Period.

[neonsamurai]

I'm pro abortion, but only to a point. Friends of mine have had abortions and it's not something entered into lightly. I don't think anyone thinks that killing unborn babies is a good thing (unless you're a fucking whacko), but there are certainly acceptable reasons for an abortion.

However, like Gonzo said birth control isn't one of them. I'm betting that those 200,000 abortions aren't all rapes or 15 year old girls and that the majority of them are because they didn't use birthcontrol properly. They messed up and don't want to face up to the consequences, which in all fairness are life altering, but even so.

I remember an argument I had with a girl a few years back who was saying that if you killed a pregnant woman, you should be arrested for double murder. My point was that if you had a law like that then all abortions would classify as murder, to which she responded "no, because those are unwanted babies". It's bizarre that a pet dog has more rights than an feotus.

But I also have friends who, like Devia, concieved when they weren't ready for a baby or at a time when it would seriously mess up their life choices, but who didn't take the easier path and abort the pregnancy. Without exception they all say they wouldn't change a thing about their lives and are glad that they became young parents.

Unfortunately today's society seems to be about easy fixes and irresponsibility, which is why abortions are so popular.

[.]

I'm pro abortion, but only to a point. Friends of mine have had abortions and it's not something entered into lightly.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, nearly half of all abortions are repeat abortions.  Seems like abortion is "entered into" more lightly than many of us realize.

[devia]

And over half of woman who have abortions seem to decide that they don't want to go there again.

Both my daughters use IUD's. The risks of them have lessened over the years and you don't have to worry about forgetting.

They've been raised in a household that does not believe in welfare, unions or social programs except for a handup and have been told straight up that they will not be bringing any babies home for us to raise. Hence if they don't want to get an abortion (because they HURT and they make you feel like a shit afterwards) they better dam well take care of biz if they wish to be sexually active.

Fact is the highest abortion rates in the U.S are in the bible belt even with the billboard shock tactics . Much harder to get birth control there, and sex is baaaaad!

P.S Mr X of course I was irresponsible when I was 19, the guys at 19 who can claim to never have gone into sex uncovered would be slim to none. Generally 19 year olds are pretty stupid in some ways.

All that being said I'm against abortion after 3 months. If you don't take care of biz before then, then imo you have the duty to carry the child till term and unless you can support said child you have the duty to put said child up for adoption.

Back in the day before abortion was easy to aquire where I live you used to have to go in front of a commitee to plead your case. My ex-sister-in-law who was a mental patient and had done every drug known to man including repeated uses of LSD (which causes down's syndrome and a multitude of other problems) signed up for an abortion at 6 weeks and didn't get it till she was 4 1/2 months pregnant. She was an addict with manic depression, she met the father in a mental hospital.

I would think that pro-choice or not instinct would tell us that an abortion at 6 weeks is better then at 4 1/2 months.

[.]

And over half of woman who have abortions seem to decide that they don't want to go there again.

If we know that 48 percent of abortions are repeats, then I can assume that abortion is not treated as a gravely serious and contemplated act.  Rather, it's portrayed and perceived as just another medical procedure.  For the remaining 52 percent, undoubtedly there is a percentage of abortion recipients who thought in this capricious way about the "procedure."  What exactly that percentage is we cannot know, but I would venture to say that a majority of abortion recipients fail to grasp the gravity of what they are doing to their own offspring.  Informed consent laws, which merely educate women on the current developmental stage of the baby, are opposed as a matter of course by popular media, ideologues in elected office, as well as abortion lobbying groups.  If even informed consent is to be demonized like this, how can you possibly make a plausible argument that abortion is not portrayed and perceived in a capricious, non-serious way?  It is!

[Garak]

I am pro-life in general, and I think any man who makes a fatherless child is scum

I take issue with this misandrist statement. This isn't something I would expect from you Gonzo.

This statement toes the feminist line because you are essentially giving women a free pass to discard the father and deny him his children and still expect him to pay or he is scum.

Maybe you are saying that any father who wants nothing to do with his child because the mother is too hard to deal with is scum.

You are forgetting that men are not giving equal rights in regards to children and have to fight back somehow.

You are forgetting that men do not get automatic custody like women do.

You are forgetting that all the risk of losing a child falls on mens shoulders, women have no fear of losing their children in a break-up. Women initiate most of the divorces as they have nothing to lose and they know it.

What would you have men do? Keep paying? Keep letting her hold the child over thier heads? How would you expect men to fight back?

Most men want to keep their children but are against not only a justice system that hates them but an entire population of people that hates them (men and women). People who do not believe men CAN be good single parents.

How do you account for men who love their children but HAD NO CHOICE but to grow apart from them? Should these men punish themselves daily (torture and a lot of stress) or just let it go? Most men let it go to save themselves from suicide and move on with their lives.

The problem Gonzo is not men who don't want their children, the problem is women who don't want the father to be a part of the children's lives but still want them to pay for those children. The problem is a society who says things like you said (that I quoted). Your statement shoots many fathers in the foot who were already victimized by the mothers, the courts, the feminists and now the MRA's. We cannot win if we shoot victimized fathers in the foot.

Your statement was painted with a broad brush so who knows if you were limiting it to fathers who were REALLY wrong. Rest assured that a broad statement like that will be used by feminists to their advantage, not to yours. 

[devia]

<<<Most men want to keep their children but are against not only a justice system that hates them but an entire population of people that hates them (men and women).>>>

Stats please.

I beleive thatm men do not want to become parents against their will, as would any sane human being feel.

[Garak]

<<<Most men want to keep their children but are against not only a justice system that hates them but an entire population of people that hates them (men and women).>>>

Stats please.

I beleive thatm men do not want to become parents against their will, as would any sane human being feel.

What do you want stats for? Men who are fathers until SHE wants a divorce are forced to jump through hoops just to get a small amount of time with their kids?

[The Gonzman]

I am pro-life in general, and I think any man who makes a fatherless child is scum

I take issue with this misandrist statement. This isn't something I would expect from you Gonzo.

This statement toes the feminist line because you are essentially giving women a free pass to discard the father and deny him his children and still expect him to pay or he is scum.

Maybe you are saying that any father who wants nothing to do with his child because the mother is too hard to deal with is scum.

You are forgetting that men are not giving equal rights in regards to children and have to fight back somehow.

You are forgetting that men do not get automatic custody like women do.

You are forgetting that all the risk of losing a child falls on mens shoulders, women have no fear of losing their children in a break-up. Women initiate most of the divorces as they have nothing to lose and they know it.

What would you have men do? Keep paying? Keep letting her hold the child over thier heads? How would you expect men to fight back?

Most men want to keep their children but are against not only a justice system that hates them but an entire population of people that hates them (men and women). People who do not believe men CAN be good single parents.

How do you account for men who love their children but HAD NO CHOICE but to grow apart from them? Should these men punish themselves daily (torture and a lot of stress) or just let it go? Most men let it go to save themselves from suicide and move on with their lives.

The problem Gonzo is not men who don't want their children, the problem is women who don't want the father to be a part of the children's lives but still want them to pay for those children. The problem is a society who says things like you said (that I quoted). Your statement shoots many fathers in the foot who were already victimized by the mothers, the courts, the feminists and now the MRA's. We cannot win if we shoot victimized fathers in the foot.

Your statement was painted with a broad brush so who knows if you were limiting it to fathers who were REALLY wrong. Rest assured that a broad statement like that will be used by feminists to their advantage, not to yours. 

If you go into sex thinking "If a child results, so what?  I'll duck out." Then you are scum.  You are no different from the woman who goes into it intending to get pregnant and trap you into something, or deny you your child for her fulfillment (at least until reality meets the fantasy) or who will get an abortion, your wants be damned, etc.

If you want to bitch about bad behavior, you have to eschew it.  Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

I don't much hold with "No adultery for women, but it's different because men don't get pregnant.  It's not.  You made a vow, you broke it.

[devia]

<<<What do you want stats for? Men who are fathers until SHE wants a divorce are forced to jump through hoops just to get a small amount of time with their kids?>>>

No I'm talking about guys who have sex with someone without wanting to spend their entire life raising a kid cause the condom or lack there of broke.

[Garak]

<<<What do you want stats for? Men who are fathers until SHE wants a divorce are forced to jump through hoops just to get a small amount of time with their kids?>>>

No I'm talking about guys who have sex with someone without wanting to spend their entire life raising a kid cause the condom or lack there of broke.

You provide the stats that MOST men fit this category because I have no doubt that most men WANT to be good fathers but are prevented from it due to a corrupt and biased legal system and vengeful mothers.

[Garak]

I am pro-life in general, and I think any man who makes a fatherless child is scum

I take issue with this misandrist statement. This isn't something I would expect from you Gonzo.

This statement toes the feminist line because you are essentially giving women a free pass to discard the father and deny him his children and still expect him to pay or he is scum.

Maybe you are saying that any father who wants nothing to do with his child because the mother is too hard to deal with is scum.

You are forgetting that men are not giving equal rights in regards to children and have to fight back somehow.

You are forgetting that men do not get automatic custody like women do.

You are forgetting that all the risk of losing a child falls on mens shoulders, women have no fear of losing their children in a break-up. Women initiate most of the divorces as they have nothing to lose and they know it.

What would you have men do? Keep paying? Keep letting her hold the child over thier heads? How would you expect men to fight back?

Most men want to keep their children but are against not only a justice system that hates them but an entire population of people that hates them (men and women). People who do not believe men CAN be good single parents.

How do you account for men who love their children but HAD NO CHOICE but to grow apart from them? Should these men punish themselves daily (torture and a lot of stress) or just let it go? Most men let it go to save themselves from suicide and move on with their lives.

The problem Gonzo is not men who don't want their children, the problem is women who don't want the father to be a part of the children's lives but still want them to pay for those children. The problem is a society who says things like you said (that I quoted). Your statement shoots many fathers in the foot who were already victimized by the mothers, the courts, the feminists and now the MRA's. We cannot win if we shoot victimized fathers in the foot.

Your statement was painted with a broad brush so who knows if you were limiting it to fathers who were REALLY wrong. Rest assured that a broad statement like that will be used by feminists to their advantage, not to yours. 

If you go into sex thinking "If a child results, so what?  I'll duck out." Then you are scum.  You are no different from the woman who goes into it intending to get pregnant and trap you into something, or deny you your child for her fulfillment (at least until reality meets the fantasy) or who will get an abortion, your wants be damned, etc.

If you want to bitch about bad behavior, you have to eschew it.  Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

I don't much hold with "No adultery for women, but it's different because men don't get pregnant.  It's not.  You made a vow, you broke it.

Since women initiate most divorces I would say that most men do not go into sex thinking that at all.

In fact, it is women who are FAR more likely to think that because they (and only women) can rid themselves of the responsibility in a number of ways.

[devia]

There is of course something to be said for the shot-gun wedding, or if that didn't work out shipping the wanton girl out of state to "go stay with relatives" is also great.


Nothing wrong with marrying someone you had sex with because you had sex with them I guess, and my birth mother being shipped off beause of the lack of shot-gun wedding to be a maid in someones home to hide her shameful position was all good too.

[devia]

<<<<Since women initiate most divorces I would say that most men do not go into sex thinking that at all.>>>>>


Most abortions are performed on unwed mothers, those married I imagine it's been discussed between the two of them most often.. not sure how divorce gets into this picture.