Study: 30% of mothers and 40% of fathers are abused during a pregnancy

[who me?]

You can see from the stats below (easier to see them on the link) that men comprise over 76% of the murder victims in the US.  Deaths within a family men still are more likely to be murdered 51% -  48%.  Importantly look at the perpetrators of intimate homicides where women are 34.7% of the perps and  family homicides and notice that it is 29.4% female.  They also are twice as likely to murder their children (mothers only 31%) than fathers only (14%).  Women are far from exempt from responsibility when it comes to murder.  Do men murder more often?  Yes.  ARe they the only culprits?  No.  If we are going to have movements for men stopping male violence then it is time for us to see some movement of women stopping female violence.  Why don't we hear about that?  LOL!

The pregnancy question is a bit different and I hope I can find time to post a little on that one.  Right now I am swamped with the conference.

E

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

Homicide Type by Gender, 1976-2004
                                Victims         Offenders
                               Male    Female         Male    Female
  All homicides    76.5%       23.5%         88.7%    11.3%
Victim/offender relationship                        
           Intimate     36.5%    63.5%              65.3%    34.7%
            Family    51.7%    48.3%         70.6%    29.4%
       Infanticide    54.5%    45.5%         61.8%    38.2%
           Eldercide    58.3%    41.7%         85.3%    14.7%

I agree that there needs to be a concerted movement to stop all violence.  Not just violence against men or violence against women.  Many ignore the stats you have linked.  Even you bring up the 34.7% violent crimes by women and hold that up.  But it appears you are ignoring the 75.3% that is left over.

From your link:

Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male
     Male offender/Male victim 65.2%
  Male offender/Female victim 22.6%
  Female offender/Male victim 9.7%
  Female offender/Female victim  2.4%

So you are going to rant about female perpetrating 9.7% of the violent acts against men and ignore the first set of numbers here?

How about the figure for male on female violence.  It's more than doubles the number of female on male violent attacks.

Are you going to ignore that too?

You are sounding allot like what you are complaining about.  But isn't that exactly what you are doing?

[dr e]

I think you need to take a deep breath and relax a little bit.  No one is ignoring anything.  How do you come to the conclusion that anyone here is ignoring anything?  This is deception and misdirection.  Maybe you can tell us just how you came to the conclusion that I am ignoring anything?  Let's hear it.

You can see from the stats below (easier to see them on the link) that men comprise over 76% of the murder victims in the US.  Deaths within a family men still are more likely to be murdered 51% -  48%.  Importantly look at the perpetrators of intimate homicides where women are 34.7% of the perps and  family homicides and notice that it is 29.4% female.  They also are twice as likely to murder their children (mothers only 31%) than fathers only (14%).  Women are far from exempt from responsibility when it comes to murder.  Do men murder more often?  Yes.  ARe they the only culprits?  No.  If we are going to have movements for men stopping male violence then it is time for us to see some movement of women stopping female violence.  Why don't we hear about that?  LOL!

The pregnancy question is a bit different and I hope I can find time to post a little on that one.  Right now I am swamped with the conference.

E

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

Homicide Type by Gender, 1976-2004
                                Victims         Offenders
                               Male    Female         Male    Female
  All homicides    76.5%       23.5%         88.7%    11.3%
Victim/offender relationship                        
           Intimate     36.5%    63.5%              65.3%    34.7%
            Family    51.7%    48.3%         70.6%    29.4%
       Infanticide    54.5%    45.5%         61.8%    38.2%
           Eldercide    58.3%    41.7%         85.3%    14.7%

I agree that there needs to be a concerted movement to stop all violence.  Not just violence against men or violence against women.  Many ignore the stats you have linked.  Even you bring up the 34.7% violent crimes by women and hold that up.  But it appears you are ignoring the 75.3% that is left over.

From your link:

Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male
     Male offender/Male victim 65.2%
  Male offender/Female victim 22.6%
  Female offender/Male victim 9.7%
  Female offender/Female victim  2.4%

So you are going to rant about female perpetrating 9.7% of the violent acts against men and ignore the first set of numbers here?

How about the figure for male on female violence.  It's more than doubles the number of female on male violent attacks.

Are you going to ignore that too?

You are sounding allot like what you are complaining about.  But isn't that exactly what you are doing?

[The Gonzman]

I'm going to say something straight out:

If you are a 130 pound woman who jumps up and smacks a 260 pound man, and he breaks your jaw (Or any other injury which does not result in a permanent maiming) for hitting him first...

You got what you deserved, and should go to jail for assault, and he should stay out on the grounds of self defense.

And you're a stupid bitch too, for "having your mouth write checks your ass can't cash."

That's some radical equality.

[Mr. X]

I'm going to say something straight out:

If you are a 130 pound woman who jumps up and smacks a 260 pound man, and he breaks your jaw (Or any other injury which does not result in a permanent maiming) for hitting him first...

You got what you deserved, and should go to jail for assault, and he should stay out on the grounds of self defense.

And you're a stupid bitch too, for "having your mouth write checks your ass can't cash."

That's some radical equality.

So what if a kid hit a 260 lb guy and he broke the kids face? Do you believe in proportionality? Should a store owner shoot a little kid for stealing a pcak of gum? Did the girl in your example break the guy's jaw? She's wrong for hitting but why does the result have to be a broken jaw? If I push a gun owner is the result to be shot to death?

[.]

I'm going to say something straight out:

If you are a 130 pound woman who jumps up and smacks a 260 pound man, and he breaks your jaw (Or any other injury which does not result in a permanent maiming) for hitting him first...

You got what you deserved, and should go to jail for assault, and he should stay out on the grounds of self defense.

And you're a stupid bitch too, for "having your mouth write checks your ass can't cash."

That's some radical equality.

So what if a kid hit a 260 lb guy and he broke the kids face? Do you believe in proportionality? Should a store owner shoot a little kid for stealing a pcak of gum? Did the girl in your example break the guy's jaw? She's wrong for hitting but why does the result have to be a broken jaw? If I push a gun owner is the result to be shot to death?

I think Gonzo was referring to adults, and also to situations that did not result in permanent injury (death would be included in that).

[who me?]

I think you need to take a deep breath and relax a little bit.  No one is ignoring anything.  How do you come to the conclusion that anyone here is ignoring anything?  This is deception and misdirection.  Maybe you can tell us just how you came to the conclusion that I am ignoring anything?  Let's hear it.

I was using the term you very generally.  I'm speaking more to posts I've read on this message board than I am your statement in particular.

I'm not trying to deceive or misdirect anything.  I'm trying to discuss a very serious issue.  Domestic violence is a big deal.

But as long as the men's rights movement focuses only on abuse perpetrated on men by women; well they are ignoring the bulk of the problem.  Look at the figures you linked for example.   62.5% of attacks on men are perpetrated by men.  But instead of trying to deal with that the focus is the 9.7% that are perpetrated by women.  Now take a look at the figures for attacks on women perpetuated by men.  Do you not see the radical difference in the figures?

It seems there is a somewhat of a consensus that since murder is the second leading cause of injury based death in pregnant women, they should be grateful it isn't the number 1 cause.  There have even been excuses made in this thread for the action.  Take a look at Gonzo's comment or the one made by TPTM and you will see what I mean.

I've read threads on this board where comments were made that she probably deserved it.  Treating him like an ATM and statements like that.  Statements that are made not from direct knowledge but based on nothing more than it was a female victim and a male attacker.

It just seems that with so many cheering when a woman is beaten or killed while blaming her for the abuse it's impossible to expect someone to take the issue of the 9.7% of physical attacks by women on men seriously. 

If you guys want to get a movement going and have people take it seriously, you are going to have to learn to show some compassion for what makes up 1/2 of the population. 

So many on this board complain about women doing certain things and then turn right around and do the exact thing they are complaining about.

It comes off as childish, irresponsible, and vindictive all at once.  Surely that is not the message you want to send, no?

And uh, I am relaxed.  Do not assume just because someone disagrees with you that they are hysterical.  The assumption for one thing is wrong and for another does nothing for the debate. 

[gwallan]

Some reading
Equal Justice Foundation
Only Women Are Offered An Alternative To Domestic Violence by Angry Harry who makes a very valid argument that the feminist inspired approach to interpersonal violence helps men more than women.

Until we stop denying the mutual dynamics involved in abuse no solutions will be forthcoming.

[dr e]

I think the listening part of you has been severely drugged with novacaine.  It ain't workin.  If we are going to discuss things then you need to listen to what others are saying.  At this point you are simply assuming what people here are thinking and the assumptions seem to be contained in a narrow-minded ideological view of the world that is usually the result of longterm brainwashing.  It looks grim for a good dialogue.

Here are some suggestions:

1.  Cease judging others based on your assumptions.
2.  Ask more questions and listen to what is said in response.
3.  State your point of view and listen to what others may say in response.

I think I speak for most of the folks here to say that we all have a concern about violence in general, no matter who is the victim.  What we see beyond that general concern is that we are spending a billion dollars a year to help women who are victims of violence but are spending ZERO dollars a year to help our men.  This even though men are obviously and overwhelmingly outnumber women in terms of being victims of violence.  Now just what might be going on here?  Why do we show more love and compassion for our women than we do for our men? 

I think you need to take a deep breath and relax a little bit.  No one is ignoring anything.  How do you come to the conclusion that anyone here is ignoring anything?  This is deception and misdirection.  Maybe you can tell us just how you came to the conclusion that I am ignoring anything?  Let's hear it.

I was using the term you very generally.  I'm speaking more to posts I've read on this message board than I am your statement in particular.

I'm not trying to deceive or misdirect anything.  I'm trying to discuss a very serious issue.  Domestic violence is a big deal.

But as long as the men's rights movement focuses only on abuse perpetrated on men by women; well they are ignoring the bulk of the problem.  Look at the figures you linked for example.   62.5% of attacks on men are perpetrated by men.  But instead of trying to deal with that the focus is the 9.7% that are perpetrated by women.  Now take a look at the figures for attacks on women perpetuated by men.  Do you not see the radical difference in the figures?

It seems there is a somewhat of a consensus that since murder is the second leading cause of injury based death in pregnant women, they should be grateful it isn't the number 1 cause.  There have even been excuses made in this thread for the action.  Take a look at Gonzo's comment or the one made by TPTM and you will see what I mean.

I've read threads on this board where comments were made that she probably deserved it.  Treating him like an ATM and statements like that.  Statements that are made not from direct knowledge but based on nothing more than it was a female victim and a male attacker.

It just seems that with so many cheering when a woman is beaten or killed while blaming her for the abuse it's impossible to expect someone to take the issue of the 9.7% of physical attacks by women on men seriously. 

If you guys want to get a movement going and have people take it seriously, you are going to have to learn to show some compassion for what makes up 1/2 of the population. 

So many on this board complain about women doing certain things and then turn right around and do the exact thing they are complaining about.

It comes off as childish, irresponsible, and vindictive all at once.  Surely that is not the message you want to send, no?

And uh, I am relaxed.  Do not assume just because someone disagrees with you that they are hysterical.  The assumption for one thing is wrong and for another does nothing for the debate. 

[Men's Rights Activist]

Domestic violence is a big deal.

The hypocrisy you've been posting makes me want to puke.  The entire domestic violence industry is nothing more than a gender feminist run, Nazi style hate movement, intent on committing hate crimes against men in the name of domestic violence law.  All the numbers are very skewed in favor of women by all the hate monger bigots running the d.v. industry and committing hate crimes against men using domestic violence laws to accomplish their evil ends.  

I refer to police, prosecutors and judges as the unholy trinity, inasmuch as they've all been trained to commit their misandrist deviltry by STOP grants funded through VAWA.  If you are so concerned about domestic violence and violence in general why don't you start with all the corrupt, hate monger bigots running the d.v. industry and destroying good mens lives based on the gender feminist, misandrist ideology.

[Mr. X]

If you guys want to get a movement going and have people take it seriously, you are going to have to learn to show some compassion for what makes up 1/2 of the population. 

Tell that to yourself. If women want to be taken seriously they are going to have to learn to show some compassion for what makes up 1/2 of the population.

BTW 100% of all dog bites are committed by dogs. If your dog was bitten severly by another dog would you ignore it and just blame dogs cause its a crime of dog on dog? Your dog bleeds to death cause it was the victim of another dog so "that's their problem".

BTW 60% of all child abuse is caused by mothers. Do we ignore all other circumstance that revolve around that and just say its a crime of women on children? 100% of all abortions are committed by women so we should ignore when little baby girls are aborted cause that's a crime of girl on girl? For example, according to your logic, we should not help chinese fetus girls cause mothers are aborting them faster than aborting baby boys?

All murder is committed by humans so we should ignore the victims of murder cause its a crime of human on human?

It seems there is a somewhat of a consensus that since murder is the second leading cause of injury based death in pregnant women, they should be grateful it isn't the number 1 cause.  There have even been excuses made in this thread for the action.  Take a look at Gonzo's comment or the one made by TPTM and you will see what I mean.

Yes if you take a stat blindly you misread a stat. Perhaps what this says is that pregnant women are so safe in our society that the second leading cause of death for them is some obscure event like murder. What if the leading cause of death was lightning strikes? Wouldn't that tell you that pregnant women are so protected and sheltered that it takes a fluke like lightning to cause their deaths? if you are going to tout this line you have to look at the real numbers. If one woman per 1 million dies of murder is that a significant amount?

What would be a more concerning number is the much more vast number of men who die on the job which is 5 times more than women AND the majority of people murdered are men. You seem concerned about pregnant women yet unconcerned about the much larger numbers of men murdered and dying.

Want us men to help women? Then women have to help men as well. The one way street ends. No compassion for men means no compassion for women. I am done trying to earn angel wings and I find no woman is worth selling out my fellow man. Why shouldn't I act like women... caring about myself first. Want us men to care? Then they should care about us as much as we care about women.

[The Gonzman]

I'm going to say something straight out:

If you are a 130 pound woman who jumps up and smacks a 260 pound man, and he breaks your jaw (Or any other injury which does not result in a permanent maiming) for hitting him first...

You got what you deserved, and should go to jail for assault, and he should stay out on the grounds of self defense.

And you're a stupid bitch too, for "having your mouth write checks your ass can't cash."

That's some radical equality.

So what if a kid hit a 260 lb guy and he broke the kids face?

"kid?"

You mean a 75 pound 7 year old, or a 300 pound 17 year old who plays lineman for his high school team and has already accepted a football scholarship to Notre Dame?

In any event - apples and oranges.  Child:  Immature person who is not grown up enough to subscribe to the social contract, and historically and traditionally protected from harm by adults in all but the most egregious circumstances.  Woman:  Adult human, and full free agent and participant in adult interaction.

Do you believe in proportionality?

Not necessarily.

Should a store owner shoot a little kid for stealing a pcak of gum?

Regardless of the heartstring pulling "little kid" and "pack of gum," when all things are erased, you have a merchant and property owner protecting his property from a thief.

Death over "things?"  In general, excepting burglary in a private residence, I'm not for it.  But the kid should not expect his youth to be a protection for him from being chased down, tackled, cuffed, and given the frog march.

And if he winds up scuffed up from it - what he gets.  Might make for quite a few less little thieves.

Did the girl in your example break the guy's jaw?

No.  At what point when someone assaults someone do we justify retaliation?

There's that "chivalry" reflex that allows women to whale on a man and then whine "You big meany! That didn't hurt you!"  Maybe not.  But it's still assault, and still merits being hit back.  A 5'4" and 130 pound woman most certainly *could* break your jaw.  Likely?  Perhaps not.  But "could" merits the response.

A broken jaw heals.

She's wrong for hitting but why does the result have to be a broken jaw?

If you start a fight, you assume that risk.  It is a logical consequence.  Unless you assert women are legally children who must be protected from the consequences of their actions...

If I push a gun owner is the result to be shot to death?

Very well could.  Might be a good idea not to violently assault someone who might be armed and judge your felonious assault as a clear and present danger to his life and well being.

[The Gonzman]

There have even been excuses made in this thread for the action.  Take a look at Gonzo's comment or the one made by TPTM and you will see what I mean.

I've seen women who were never hit falsely accuse someone of assault, and get TRO's based on "I'm scared" and provide no reason for their "fear."

Women have plenty of advocates, and advocates who will even defend their "right" to falsely accuse men.

So I \refuse to re-invent the wheel.  I am here for my brothers, and I am not about to dilute my efforts to that end. 

Women have tossed men under the bus for years, with no thought to their well being.  Fine.  So be it.  Let them solve their own problems.  Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

[BRIAN]

Preach on Gonzo!

I think more men need to hold women to the standards that men hold men too.  A man would not think twice about busting a 130lb person in the mouth for hiting them if the person was another man. Why should that be different if the person who strikes you is a female.

[Mr. X]

Preach on Gonzo!

I think more men need to hold women to the standards that men hold men too.  A man would not think twice about busting a 130lb person in the mouth for hiting them if the person was another man. Why should that be different if the person who strikes you is a female.

Yeah and when that hoe talks back you can break her jaw too. yeah a slap definitly deserves a broken jaw. A kick deserves a severed arm. A bad word deserves a gouged out eye. Perhaps disobedience deserves broken teeth. Disagreeing deserves mental abuse.

Hey so when a 7 year old kicks you do you break their legs cause you have a massive size an weight advantage? I don't care what the sex of the other person is, proportionality always should apply. So next time a kid bumps into me in the grocery store I should pick up their tiny little 60lb body and shove it through the glass door cause I can. WEEE DOGGIEE ITS FAIR GAME TIME!

Hey Gonzo, remember your attitude when you're 75 in a nursing home and some nurse breaks your arm cause you swatted her hand. Remember the weak must always be kept in line by the bullies who have a distinct physical advantage... oops I mean the "strong". You will be weak someday Gonzo. When that day comes I hope a younger, stronger woman breaks your jaw.

[.]

Mr. X, so what would you have a man do, when he has been assaulted by a woman?  Just sit there and take it?  If it's in an ongoing relationship and both partners are living together, this is probably not just an isolated incident.  It's probably a pattern.  One punch in the nose will be followed a week hence by a kick in the groin.  The violence goes on and on.  One day a man will have enough of it, and lash out.  I'm not justifying retributive violence on a moral level (although it might be justified, depending).  I'm just referring to human nature.  A woman is 7 times more likely to sustain injury in mutual combat, which means that one of seven assaults she commits will incur injury.  The pattern guarantees that the man will bleed, have broken bones, head trauma, or worse.

The violence must stop!  If it doesn't, do you really think a man who is much larger has a moral obligation to just sit there and take it?