Study: 30% of mothers and 40% of fathers are abused during a pregnancy

Started by ., Jul 06, 2007, 09:32 AM

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Is "Who Me" a troll who is not truly debating?

Yes, she's a troll.  Ban her!
2 (10%)
Yes, she's a troll.  Refute her.
9 (45%)
Yes, she's a troll.  Ignore her.
4 (20%)
She's a thoughtful and fair debater.
5 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 20

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Cordell Walker

there is a difference between self defense and bullying Mr X,  a jab to the face and left hook to the liver for a slap would IMO fall under self defense...........................hitting someone when they are down though is bad ettiquette
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

Cordell Walker


Mr. X, so what would you have a man do, when he has been assaulted by a woman?  Just sit there and take it?  If it's in an ongoing relationship and both partners are living together, this is probably not just an isolated incident.  It's probably a pattern.  One punch in the nose will be followed a week hence by a kick in the groin.  The violence goes on and on.  One day a man will have enough of it, and lash out.  I'm not justifying retributive violence on a moral level (although it might be justified, depending).  I'm just referring to human nature.  A woman is 7 times more likely to sustain injury in mutual combat, which means that one of seven assaults she commits will incur injury.  The pattern guarantees that the man will bleed, have broken bones, head trauma, or worse.

The violence must stop!  If it doesn't, do you really think a man who is much larger has a moral obligation to just sit there and take it?


and you made me think of an interesting point...when a man sits back and takes it from a woman throwing  a temper tantrum, he really isn't doing her any favors, because after he wises up and leaves, the next dude she is with might be amore violent than she is;  but  DV is a form of bullying and a bullly usually reconsiders when they find out that they are going to have to at least give up a sandwich to get a meal....Im not advocating  putting a rodney king on a girl for a slap  or thrown lamp, but a good left hook to the kidney and uppercut to the solar plexus will not only incapacitate her long enough for you to get the hell out the dooor , it will usually keep  the fights verbal from that point on.
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

.

#32
Jul 08, 2007, 11:01 PM Last Edit: Jul 08, 2007, 11:04 PM by johndias
...but a good left hook to the kidney and uppercut to the solar plexus will not only incapacitate her long enough for you to get the hell out the door, it will usually keep the fights verbal from that point on.


I would hope that such a relationship would end, and the abused man get out before he ever did retaliate.  Knowing the way domestic violence laws are stacked, an abused man has a bleak future if he retaliates.  In my state, California, a man who puts up his arms to shield his face from oncoming blows is considered an abuser if a woman's attacks leave bruises on his arms.  He can be arrested.

Women can be punished by the man's absence.  The only caveat is that men are heavily vested in their families if they have kids (they can't just leave the kids in the care of an abusive woman, and absconding would be considered kidnapping in many states); men are also financially vested in their homes.  Which is why retaliation by the male is not a solution to the problem of female violence, but rather a reaction.  Men who are abused by women have one out, in my opinion, if they wish to save all that they have.  This is especially applicable in relationships where there is a pattern of violence and abuse by a woman, making it predictable or inevitable.  Men in such abusive relationships must use surveillance to capture a woman's violence on tape.  That's what my Web site (DontMakeHerMad.com) promotes.

Simply fleeing the home by himself means he loses his kids (if he has any), and all his property.
Fleeing the home with any kids means he faces charges of child kidnapping.
Defending himself by blocking his attacker's blows means he can face charges of assault and battery.
Retaliating with violence means that he will almost definitely face assault charges, a restraining order, loss of custody, a move-out order, and an obligation to pay on the mortgage so his abusive wife can have it even easier.

Men have no options when they are abused.  Retaliation with violence is not a viable solution in giving violent women pause before they batter; rather, it's the kiss of death to the man.  I wish men could defend themselves with appropriate levels of violence if the situation called for it, but the laws (primary aggressor laws and mandatory arrest laws) don't support this (nor does society).

Men only have the almighty record button, or a reliable and friendly witness, as their chief weapons to counter abusive women.  Women simply get a pass in this society.  Look at the name of this thread; could a man retaliate against his pregnant and violent wife, in this system?  Legitimacy and the perception of moral high-ground must be secured by the man before he can make any appeal to law enforcement.  Surveillance provides that.

The Gonzman



Preach on Gonzo!

I think more men need to hold women to the standards that men hold men too.  A man would not think twice about busting a 130lb person in the mouth for hiting them if the person was another man. Why should that be different if the person who strikes you is a female.


Yeah and when that hoe talks back you can break her jaw too. yeah a slap definitly deserves a broken jaw. A kick deserves a severed arm. A bad word deserves a gouged out eye. Perhaps disobedience deserves broken teeth. Disagreeing deserves mental abuse.


Hyperbole.

Strike someone - get struck back.  Not that hard a concept.  Don't want to be struck back?  Don't commit the crime of battery, and initiate violence.

Brian is right - if a 130 pound man came up and whomped me, I'd plow him - and let the chips fall where they may.  If his jaw is broken when he wakes up - it's on him.

Why should I offer a woman special treatment in that regard?

Your knee-jerk, one-sided chivalry is showing.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

dr e

I can see both sides. 

I think we have agreement that women are not held accountable for their violence.  The question seems to revolve around the hypothetical response to the violent act. 

Yes, a man should be able to respond with force if he is attacked. I think we all agree there. I am no lawyer but I would guess that the courts would allow a response to a violent act that was in self-defense.  I would bet that they might be less understanding if the act in response was a level or two or three above the initial act.  An exagerated example:  A man hits  you in the arm in a bar.  He hits you with a closed fist and he hits hard.  You respond by cutting off his legs with a chain saw.  Guess what?  You go to jail.  The response didn't match the event.  I think both Gonz and Mr X are in basic agreement but differ in the degree of response that should be allowed with Mr X thinking the response should be more restrained and Gonz thinking in more "liberal" terms.

It's an interesting question. 
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

TheManOnTheStreet

And there you have it.  Freaking troll comes in, makes rediculous statements on a mens forum telling men that they should maintain the chivelrous status quo.. stirs the pot... then sits back with her bon-bons and giggles at the men bickering...

Pathetic.
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

dr e

Sadly agree with you Al.  Check your pms.

E


And there you have it.  Freaking troll comes in, makes rediculous statements on a mens forum telling men that they should maintain the chivelrous status quo.. stirs the pot... then sits back with her bon-bons and giggles at the men bickering...

Pathetic.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

who me?

So anyone that voices an opinion that isn't the standard men always good women always bad black and white view of the universe some here appear to hold; they are a troll?

And to think I thought this was a debate forum.  You guys do not want a debate you are more inclined toward the "yeah, what he said" thing.

Why would a man have to just sit and take it if attacked by a woman?  There is no law that states such.  Why not press charges and follow through the legal process?

Given the example Gonzo gave; a woman slapping a man twice her size gives him the right to break her jaw, does that mean if the same woman picks up on equalizer and uses it then everything is good?

She would be defending herself against a much stronger attacker.

Police do not magically appear when an attack takes place.  They are called.  Once they are there if the abused wants to pursue charges then an arrest is made.  What's so hard about that?

You have to use the legal process or be willing to accept the consequences of ignoring it.

If you choose to ignore it and prove your manhood by beating down someone twice your size; you shouldn't be surprised if you are held repsonsible for the stupidity of it all.

You can't blame the feminist for that.  Blame it on the man in the mirror.  He's the one that made the bad call.

The Gonzman


So anyone that voices an opinion that isn't the standard men always good women always bad black and white view of the universe some here appear to hold; they are a troll?


Shit-pot stirring =/= troll.

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And to think I thought this was a debate forum.  You guys do not want a debate you are more inclined toward the "yeah, what he said" thing.


Gee, and here me and Mr. X just had a difference of opinion.

Methinks the troll doth protest too much.  What YOU are wanting is people to be impressed with your profundity and cleverness.

Quote
Why would a man have to just sit and take it if attacked by a woman?  There is no law that states such.  Why not press charges and follow through the legal process?


"What a whiner!  THAT didn't hurt!"

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Given the example Gonzo gave; a woman slapping a man twice her size gives him the right to break her jaw, does that mean if the same woman picks up on equalizer and uses it then everything is good?


No, Troll.  A woman hitting a man - not slapping.  Do not put words in my mouth in your attempt to spin the example.

You hit - you get hit back.  And you suck it up if your alligator mouth gets your hummingbird ass in trouble for it.  Guess what - also in my example a woman who never hits a man never gets hit back.  Or hit to begin with.

But we overlook that...

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She would be defending herself against a much stronger attacker.


No, Troll - she would be, AS THE ATTACKER - escalating the violence she initiated.

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Police do not magically appear when an attack takes place.  They are called.  Once they are there if the abused wants to pursue charges then an arrest is made.  What's so hard about that?


Duluth model where the man - because of his greater size and strength - is automatically rubricized as the "primary agressor" regardless of the facts.

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You have to use the legal process or be willing to accept the consequences of ignoring it.


I am fully advocating the legal process.  It is legal in most places to defend yourself from an attack.  I'm just advocating women be part of this too and not yhave a pussy pass to initiate violence.

Something wrong with that, Troll?

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If you choose to ignore it and prove your manhood by beating down someone twice your size; you shouldn't be surprised if you are held repsonsible for the stupidity of it all.


Ah, the trollish "Blame and shame" game.  Try this one on for size, Troll: "Little Person's Disease."  That's where some skinny little, flannel mouthed runt goes up to the biggest guy they can find and starts a fight, counting on someone to come to their aid if they start getting their heads handed to them - to prove wha big, strong, capable people they really are; because, yanno, any big guy who defends himself against an obnoxious and aggressive twerp is really a big bully.

They should just take it, and be a pussy instead.

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You can't blame the feminist for that.  Blame it on the man in the mirror.  He's the one that made the bad call.


And I look forward to the day when some cunt smacks a guy and gets backhanded for it, people everywhere say "You can't blame the man for that.  Blame it on the woman in the mirror.  She's the one that made the bad call."

You want equality?  Be equal, then.  If you want to be a legal child - expect to be treated like one, and told to go sit down while the grown-ups talk.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Cordell Walker

spot on gonzo bloke!!!! I'll buy you a pint of stella owd taeter!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just had an arguement with a female friend of mine(a feminist at  that) over this same sbject
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

who me?

Gonzo,
You are not even worth the time.  You are incapable of having a civilized conversation and debate is way beyond your basic capability.

Whiner?

Look in the mirror. 

Cordell Walker

at least gonzo cna look in the mirror............your so ugly your mirrors went on strike :angryfire:

go take a ride with ted kennedy, troll
PISS ON FEMINIST TROLLS
R KELLY STYLE
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

who me?


at least gonzo cna look in the mirror............your so ugly your mirrors went on strike :angryfire:

go take a ride with ted kennedy, troll
PISS ON FEMINIST TROLLS
R KELLY STYLE


You know nothing of me.  Just because I state that you follow the legal process I'm a troll?

Poor guy.  Well, I guess it's easier to pretend the legal system is against you if you refuse to use it when needed.

It's also easier to pretend that females have a different set of laws that affect them as opposed to males if you do not involve the police.

So your and gonzo's answer is alway up the antie on the violence and then blame anyone other than yourself?

Yeah, that's an example of clear thinking isn't it?

Why do the right thing when the wrong thing feels so much better.  That way you can blame your own stupidity of some evil force that keeps you down.

I can understand why you are so upset.  It is difficult to debate someone that is using their mind.  Might as well call them a troll and pitch a fit while doing it. :laughing6:

Cordell Walker

you are the internet ersion of glass joe from mike tyson's punch out nentendo game back in the 80's

and what kind of dumb name is  who me? anyway...if you were from texas you would know who?
who????
MIKE JONES!!!!
:laughing6: :laughing6: :laughing6:

  anyway if you are suggesting that self defense isnt a basic human right, you really do have your head up your culo
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

The Gonzman


Gonzo,
You are not even worth the time.  You are incapable of having a civilized conversation and debate is way beyond your basic capability.

Whiner?

Look in the mirror. 


Awwwww ... Ol' Gonzo Meany didn't fall down and roll over for the feminist.  Bad Gonzo.

In other words, you got nothing.  Pretty fucking typical for femherroids, actually - unless you all are in an echo chamber, complete with the Shoutdown Chorus, and a sympathetic moderator ready to edit or ban anyone who gets the better of you, you're pretty worthless as far as debate goes.

It's little wonder left-wing ass-bags (among which are numbered feminists) are always so intent on silencing dissent.

Oh, in if you read for context - I know nuance, like math, is hard, but do try - the "What a whiner!  THAT didn't hurt!" is a direct answer to your question of "Why not use the legal system?"  Because that is the response we get.

So, let's take a look at your observation: "So your and gonzo's (Gonzo's) answer is alway up the antie(ante) on the violence and then blame anyone other than yourself?"

Now here we have a red herring. The victim of an attack - Under the legal system you claim we don't use - almost ALWAYS has the right of escalation (Places like the People's Republik of Massachusetts excepted, of course).  If you attack me with a lethal weapon, for instance, I have the right to counter that attack, and meet it with one as lethal.  If I merely injure you - what you get, and in fact, YOU will wind up in jail for assault with a deadly weapon, if not attempted murder.  If I kill you - I'll sleep in my own bed that night.  :greener: If you win, or kill me - you are still the criminal.

And that really seems to bother you - holding women to the same standard as men.  Imagine that.  REAL equality bothers a feminist.

Hmmm.  Wonder why that is?
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

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