Study: 30% of mothers and 40% of fathers are abused during a pregnancy

Started by ., Jul 06, 2007, 09:32 AM

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Is "Who Me" a troll who is not truly debating?

Yes, she's a troll.  Ban her!
2 (10%)
Yes, she's a troll.  Refute her.
9 (45%)
Yes, she's a troll.  Ignore her.
4 (20%)
She's a thoughtful and fair debater.
5 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 20

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The Gonzman


The majority of those dying are women and children. 


The majority of those killing children are Women.  Matter of fact, the vast and overwhelming majority.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

who me?



The majority of those dying are women and children. 


The majority of those killing children are Women.  Matter of fact, the vast and overwhelming majority.


Yes I realize that.  Have I said anything to the contrary.

Notice something else, I'm not going to cheer for them and I would never lie for them either.

Some of us have a real moral code that we live by.  Other's pretend while lying under oath.

bachelor tom

Feminists who parrot arguments like Who Me's are either delusional idealists or cynical totalitarian wannabes.  In either case they have zero credibility.
political correctness = patriarchal chivalry + matriarchal victimology

who me?


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One thing I see you guys need to overcome is the need that so many men have to paint a man that is suffering from the abuse by their spouse as wimps.


I have not observed that here.  It's always possible I missed something so please post any example you find.  If so, such sentiments are certainly the exception, not the rule on this site, IMO,  as a significant number of men who've posted here have been battered by their wives, but out of gentlemanly conduct did not respond in kind.  Such has been the chivalrous role conditioning of many, many men in America.


There is life outside of the board.  I have managed to see and experience a few things in my 51 year of life.

I've heard the comments that men make about other men that are abused by their spouse.

I also know what the reaction is when you bring up a subject like male and male rape.

The so called men's rights activist get strangly silent.

It's a cultural thing.  Men have been taught they are the providers and protecters.  When something happens that puts that identity in crisis; many men will avoid the man experiencing the crisis as if it's catching or something.

Men's Rights Activist

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I want to think you Pen for the honest and civil conversation that you have set forth.  You are one of the few I've encountered so far that is able to do it.

It is voices like yours that will make an impact.


Your comments appear to be seeking to divide, not unite, males to stand against the gender feminist tyranny that plagues us all.  We are not a homogonous group that all fell out of some cookie cutter cast, but a divergent groups of individual males, many with dissimilar views to a greater or lesser degree.  Our differences could be divisive to us as a group, if divisive people come here and try to use our differences to drive a wedge between us.

In much sound counsel is wisdom, largely because we don't all think alike or expect others to all think alike - like communists, cultural Marxists and radical feminists do.  People can have many different opinions with out the need for a collective right, making everyone not thinking the same - wrong.

Here's one thing that most of the guys who post on this site do, coincidently, have in common:

Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Virtue

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Some of us have a real moral code that we live by.


10 to one says she cant even define the word morality
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

The Gonzman

Some of us have a real moral code that we live by.  Other's pretend while lying under oath.


And then there are those of us who fight to actually win, and be a winner, than a loser who consoles themselves with how "noble" they are.

I know who I'd rather have in my corner in a tight spot.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Men's Rights Activist

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Yeah, your posts have been so civil haven't they.

There have only been a few that have been able to converse on a civil level.

The broad brush use of "you guys" refers to the ones that do not have the capability of debate or civil discourse.

Does it fit you?

Go back, read your posts and check out your little cartoons and then make that call for yourself.


Yes, my posts have been civil to a fault, unless you just can't handle the truth, which I am beginning to suspect maybe the case more than anything.
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Garak

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Try to understand that I wasn't trying to downplay anything.


It looked that way and it is common for the media to downplay or simply not report mens issues. Look at the headline....Even though mothers are abused less...they are mentioned FIRST and are also mentioned first in the article. Could it be because society as a whole cares more about abuse towards women than it does about abuse towards men?

If the numbers were higher for women it would still put mothers ahead of fathers..wouldn't it? In virtually every aspect mothers are put above fathers. So many in this society see fathers as worthless to the development of a child, apparently the courts do as well. This is a problem and it start with acknowledging that men are abused by women too....especially pregnant women having mood swings. There is literally no excuse for a man to hit a woman but a woman does not need a reason to do it and pregnancy just makes it even more "ok".

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But when the numbers are as lopsided as they are and the movement refuses to hold men that do abuse to a standard but instead make excuses for the behavior; then they should not be shocked to get the same treatment in return.

The stats that Dr de is it? posted clearly show that men are most commonly assaulted by other men.  Refusal to deal with that glaring fact does nothing to curtail abuse in any direction.  


Men do hold men accountable for abuse...those male lawmakers, those male police officers, those male judges...need I go on? Mandatory arrest laws that usually put men in jail even if THEY are the victim and especially if they defended themselves. Raising your voice is a form of domestic violence so to put it in perspective...a woman can (and they do) beat the shit out of a man and he cannot raise his arm to block her attack nor can he even raise his voice. He can leave but if he takes the children the police will be called and it is likely he will go to jail and he may even be charged with kidnapping. His choices are to sit and take it or leave without the kids. Either way, he loses. You must see this in your own experiences.

As for men abusing other men, you bet and most of the time it is probably over a female. That doesn't mean SHE put the man up to it but surely you won't deny that women can and do manipulate men to turn against each other. I have had it happen to me. I calmly explained to the man that she was just trying to use him to get back at me but that doesn't always work. Men have always defended women which is why it is so easy for women to manipulate men. Female manipulation combined with all the power women have these days is a disastorous.

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When you hear and read statements made by men cheering on another man that has beaten a woman senseless while supplying them with excuses why do you think females will cheer also?


Men do not cheer when other men kill women or mutilate women and very seldom when men beat up women. Women though, do say "you go girl" when a man is mutilated or killed cause for women...self defense always works as an excuse.

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Someone actually asked me in this thread if someone had to die for abuse to be taken seriously.  He failed to see that people do die as a result of domestic violence.  The majority of those dying are women and children.  That doesn't seem important though; they are just women and children.


I asked that actually. Men also die in DV situations and usually because women use the excuse "he is bigger so I can use a weapon". It's just that when that happens other women (and men) cheer and say he deserved it.

Quote
Abuse should not be tolerated or cheered.  It doesn't matter what the gender of the victim or the perpetrator.  Abuse is wrong.


Agreed

Quote
For generations the pendulum was swinging in favor of men's rights.  Women's rights were an afterthought at best.  Now it has swung in the opposite direction.  It needs to be centered.

But it's not going to happen as long as everyone holds on to this us and them mentality.


Since it was men who helped feminism take control....I think the ball is in your court to help us now that you see it has gone too far. The "us and them" mentality is why feminism works so talk to the feminists abou that...they force us to fight the battle this way.
I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

Virtue

Every time your pour logic on her argument and watch it dissolve she responds with emotional diatribe. 
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

who me?


Quote
I want to think you Pen for the honest and civil conversation that you have set forth.  You are one of the few I've encountered so far that is able to do it.

It is voices like yours that will make an impact.


Your comments appear to be seeking to divide, not unite, males to stand against the gender feminist tyranny that plagues us all.  We are not a homogonous group that all fell out of some cookie cutter cast, but a divergent groups of individual males, many with dissimilar views to a greater or lesser degree.  Our differences could be divisive to us as a group, if divisive people come here and try to use our differences to drive a wedge between us.

In much sound counsel is wisdom, largely because we don't all think alike or expect others to all think alike - like communists, cultural Marxists and radical feminists do.  People can have many different opinions with out the need for a collective right, making everyone not thinking the same - wrong.

Here's one thing that most of the guys who post on this site do, coincidently, have in common:




I'm not trying to drive a wedge between anyone.  Are you always this paranoid?

The little cartoons are cute, nonproductive but cute.

Men's Rights Activist

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Quote

Quote

Interesting.  A site that is put together that allows no alternative views?


Quote from: Men's Rights Activist on Today at 02:03:01 PM  
Now who's "out of context?"  You are still freely posting your views, yet you've accused this site of not allowing alternate views.  Hmmm.  Could it be you are having problems accepting/allowing others views that are not like your own?



No I was talking about the cute little poll.  :laughing6:


Nice try, but you are clearly wrong, and arrogantly so.  You were not "talking about that cute little poll" in the quotation I cited as that quotation was clearly from a post you made before the "cute little pole" you are citing.
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

who me?


Some of us have a real moral code that we live by.  Other's pretend while lying under oath.


And then there are those of us who fight to actually win, and be a winner, than a loser who consoles themselves with how "noble" they are.

I know who I'd rather have in my corner in a tight spot.


So the ends justify the means?

Do you hold that opinion when those means are used against you or do you scream foul?

.


So the ends justify the means?

Do you hold that opinion when those means are used against you or do you scream foul?


Are you saying that conforming to the legal process is a higher priority to you than a man's actual innocence?  Because that is the hypothetical we're speaking about here, someone who is falsely accused by a woman as a divorce/breakup tactic, defending themselves against a system stacked against them.  A system that presumes their guilt, and expects proof of innocence.

who me?


Quote
Try to understand that I wasn't trying to downplay anything.


It looked that way and it is common for the media to downplay or simply not report mens issues. Look at the headline....Even though mothers are abused less...they are mentioned FIRST and are also mentioned first in the article. Could it be because society as a whole cares more about abuse towards women than it does about abuse towards men?

If the numbers were higher for women it would still put mothers ahead of fathers..wouldn't it? In virtually every aspect mothers are put above fathers. So many in this society see fathers as worthless to the development of a child, apparently the courts do as well. This is a problem and it start with acknowledging that men are abused by women too....especially pregnant women having mood swings. There is literally no excuse for a man to hit a woman but a woman does not need a reason to do it and pregnancy just makes it even more "ok".

Quote
But when the numbers are as lopsided as they are and the movement refuses to hold men that do abuse to a standard but instead make excuses for the behavior; then they should not be shocked to get the same treatment in return.

The stats that Dr de is it? posted clearly show that men are most commonly assaulted by other men.  Refusal to deal with that glaring fact does nothing to curtail abuse in any direction.  


Men do hold men accountable for abuse...those male lawmakers, those male police officers, those male judges...need I go on? Mandatory arrest laws that usually put men in jail even if THEY are the victim and especially if they defended themselves. Raising your voice is a form of domestic violence so to put it in perspective...a woman can (and they do) beat the shit out of a man and he cannot raise his arm to block her attack nor can he even raise his voice. He can leave but if he takes the children the police will be called and it is likely he will go to jail and he may even be charged with kidnapping. His choices are to sit and take it or leave without the kids. Either way, he loses. You must see this in your own experiences.

As for men abusing other men, you bet and most of the time it is probably over a female. That doesn't mean SHE put the man up to it but surely you won't deny that women can and do manipulate men to turn against each other. I have had it happen to me. I calmly explained to the man that she was just trying to use him to get back at me but that doesn't always work. Men have always defended women which is why it is so easy for women to manipulate men. Female manipulation combined with all the power women have these days is a disastorous.

Quote
When you hear and read statements made by men cheering on another man that has beaten a woman senseless while supplying them with excuses why do you think females will cheer also?


Men do not cheer when other men kill women or mutilate women and very seldom when men beat up women. Women though, do say "you go girl" when a man is mutilated or killed cause for women...self defense always works as an excuse.

Quote
Someone actually asked me in this thread if someone had to die for abuse to be taken seriously.  He failed to see that people do die as a result of domestic violence.  The majority of those dying are women and children.  That doesn't seem important though; they are just women and children.


I asked that actually. Men also die in DV situations and usually because women use the excuse "he is bigger so I can use a weapon". It's just that when that happens other women (and men) cheer and say he deserved it.

Quote
Abuse should not be tolerated or cheered.  It doesn't matter what the gender of the victim or the perpetrator.  Abuse is wrong.


Agreed

Quote
For generations the pendulum was swinging in favor of men's rights.  Women's rights were an afterthought at best.  Now it has swung in the opposite direction.  It needs to be centered.

But it's not going to happen as long as everyone holds on to this us and them mentality.


Since it was men who helped feminism take control....I think the ball is in your court to help us now that you see it has gone too far. The "us and them" mentality is why feminism works so talk to the feminists abou that...they force us to fight the battle this way.



You are still trying your best to identify me as a feminist.  I do believe in equal rights for both genders so if that makes me a feminist so be it.

As a hard core Daddy's girl you will find that I'm the last person you will ever hear saying that men are useless when it comes to children.  Demanding that child chooses between a mother and father is like asking them which leg do they prefer to keep.  Both legs equal good balance.  There are aspects and experiences that a father brings to a child's life that a mother can not.  By the same token there are aspects and experiences that a mother brings into a child's life that a father can not.  When one parent is missing from the equation the other can not make that up to the child.

In my opinon the courts have forgotten the best interests of the child and instead have exchanged that idea for what is politically correct in the view of some.

The women's rights movement was something that needed to happen when it did.  Without it I would not have the right to do what it is I do for a living.  Without it I would not have been able to move up the ladder careerwise.

The playing field has been levelled in the career world and in the world of education.  But there is a huge mountain when it comes to parental rights and responsibility.

Also as time has moved on and as women have entered the work world in the numbers that we now see...women are changing.  We now read about violent crimes perpetrated by females that we would have not seen 30 years ago.  Women have become more agreesive in order to compete in the workforce.

The problem is, it has carried over into the home and has found its way into the family structure.  But the courts do not deal with this violence on equal terms.

The family court is the biggest of offenders in this area.  In my opinion it needs to be a real focus.

No child should ever have to choose between father and mother as long as both parents are fit to raise the child.

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