Study: 30% of mothers and 40% of fathers are abused during a pregnancy

Started by ., Jul 06, 2007, 09:32 AM

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Is "Who Me" a troll who is not truly debating?

Yes, she's a troll.  Ban her!
2 (10%)
Yes, she's a troll.  Refute her.
9 (45%)
Yes, she's a troll.  Ignore her.
4 (20%)
She's a thoughtful and fair debater.
5 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 20

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who me?


Every time your pour logic on her argument and watch it dissolve she responds with emotional diatribe. 


I'm not emotional at all.

But your little comments are adorable.

who me?



So the ends justify the means?

Do you hold that opinion when those means are used against you or do you scream foul?


Are you saying that conforming to the legal process is a higher priority to you than a man's actual innocence?  Because that is the hypothetical we're speaking about here, someone who is falsely accused by a woman as a divorce/breakup tactic, defending themselves against a system stacked against them.  A system that presumes their guilt, and expects proof of innocence.


If someone is completely innocent; why the need to lie under oath?

I was commenting on Gonzo bragging about doing just that.  It wasn't a hypothetical.

But no, I would not lie under oath.  Maybe you do not take an oath as a serious thing?

So are you implying that a moral code is something you can just set asside?  So the ends justify the means?

Is that the message?

Men's Rights Activist

Quote
But when the numbers are as lopsided as they are and the movement refuses to hold men that do abuse to a standard but instead make excuses for the behavior; then they should not be shocked to get the same treatment in return.

The stats that Dr de is it? posted clearly show that men are most commonly assaulted by other men.  Refusal to deal with that glaring fact does nothing to curtail abuse in any direction.  

When you hear and read statements made by men cheering on another man that has beaten a woman senseless while supplying them with excuses why do you think females will cheer also?

Someone actually asked me in this thread if someone had to die for abuse to be taken seriously.  He failed to see that people do die as a result of domestic violence.  The majority of those dying are women and children.  That doesn't seem important though; they are just women and children.

Abuse should not be tolerated or cheered.  It doesn't matter what the gender of the victim or the perpetrator.  Abuse is wrong.

For generations the pendulum was swinging in favor of men's rights.  Women's rights were an afterthought at best.  Now it has swung in the opposite direction.  It needs to be centered.

But it's not going to happen as long as everyone holds on to this us and them mentality.


When you go to a d.v. conference and hear gender feminists tell you that "all" those 440 male victims of intimate partner homicide were batterers you get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

When all men are denied access to domestic violence shelter and services in states like CA you get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

Why is all this happening?  Answer:  So lying, evil gender feminists running the domestic violence industry can get the statistics to get more money to batter and arrest more men, to get more money to batter and arrest more men, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

I have heard from several very reliable sources of gender feminists advocating for more I.P. violence from women against men at an International Family Violence Conf. in San Diego one year.  Statistics based on such an evil system as the one presently supplying the crime stats means very little in light of the fact that men are being abused and not getting the services that they deserve, the services that women get.  In the early 90's, before VAWA, men and women were dying of IPV at equal rates.  Surprising, since VAWA, the number of men being killed has gone down.  If men got the same services as women, when they felt like killing their spouses, I suspect the numbers would be equal again so it is time for the evil, gender feminist, Amerikan government to STOP waging their hate war against men before any further talk of accountability and responsibility for domestic violence is talked about.  Give men the same services as women now and the gender feminists out of the domestic violence industry.  The real people responsible for the murders of so many women are the gender feminist bigots running the domestic violence industry so go tell them to accept responsibility for lying about domestic violence and not working to solve the problems based on the truth.  I have heard a report of a prominent gender feminist in the d.v. industry say, "Women are not violent enough."  She advocated women need to get more violent, and why not, as Mary Winkler proved, women can get away with killing their spouses.  And the d.v. industry just considers all men batterers.  Women will never ever be equal or free from domestic violence until men have ALL the same privileges, and pampering, and rights, and protections that women do.  So when are you going to start working to end domestic violence against women by ending all the fraud and lies that exist in today's domestic violence industry in Amerika?  That's the place where the most serious problems exist.
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Mr. X

#138
Jul 09, 2007, 12:56 PM Last Edit: Jul 09, 2007, 01:06 PM by Mr. X

I agree with you completely about Mary Winkler.  She is the poster child for exactly what we are discussing.

Why not go to the state legislatures?  You know, the guy that pass laws for the various states?

The majority of them are men just in case you didn't know.


Yes and I acknowledge and have stated on this board several times that a part of men's problems are caused by these men. Angel wing earning losers who wish to sell the rest of us guys out so they can get some man merit badge from women who don't care about them. I agree part of the problem is men not treating women as equals and pedistalizing them. But I also acknowlegde that women's groups pressure judges and prosecutors. A lot of the pressure in the Duke case was from women's groups pushing the failed stereotype that women never lie about rape. In the Winkler case and with the Yates case, women's groups pressured as well. With Yates women's groups pressured for her not to get the death penalty citing Post Pardum Psychosis as some legit illness.

Yes there are angel wing earners who make it harder for men and I curse those male succophants to hell but I also see that women pressure these men using the age old notion that men wish to please women to their benefit. Similar to using a boyfriend to do all the fighting for you.

In most cases women actually perform more evil than men. What is worse, the person who commits the bad act or the puppet master one step removed who manipulates the situation knowing the outcome is unfairness or violence? Is it the pit bull who mauls someone that's bad or the owner who doesn't call it off or encourages it to attack.


Quote from: who me?
If someone is completely innocent; why the need to lie under oath?

That similar to "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide." or "All suspects are guilty or they wouldn't be suspect."

What I am amazed about is how feminists have horrific blockage of history and the effects of oppressive governments. They acknowledge women's oppression but ignore that the components of oppression are the things being violated by the courts today. Guilty till proven innocent. Abolsihment of privacy. Suspect based on the word of someone belonging to a priviledged class. Those are all things that women suffered under. So why back it now? Women's history won't be any different than men's. You'll have or have had your own Stalins, Hitlers, Kim Jung Ils, Mao and worse, you'll ignore history and welcome them with open arms.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Virtue

#139
Jul 09, 2007, 12:57 PM Last Edit: Jul 09, 2007, 01:00 PM by Virtue
Quote
Every time your pour logic on her argument and watch it dissolve she responds with emotional diatribe.

I'm not emotional at all.

But your little comments are adorable.


Adoration is an emotion Cupcake.

Almost every argument you have made has been logically and irrefutably torn down  by multiple members here.  Yet you refuse to acknowledge this.......your not debating your being contrary and expecting to get away with it because you have a pussy.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

who me?



I agree with you completely about Mary Winkler.  She is the poster child for exactly what we are discussing.

Why not go to the state legislatures?  You know, the guy that pass laws for the various states?

The majority of them are men just in case you didn't know.


Yes and I acknowledge and have stated on this board several times that a part of men's problems are caused by these men. Angel wing earning losers who wish to sell the rest of us guys out so they can get some man merit badge from women who don't care about them. I agree part of the problem is men not treating women as equals and pedistalizing them. But I also acknowlegde that women's groups pressure judges and prosecutors. A lot of the pressure in the Duke case was from women's groups pushing the failed stereotype that women never lie about rape. In the Winkler case and with the Yates case, women's groups pressured as well. With Yates women's groups pressured for her not to get the death penalty citing Post Pardum Psychosis as some legit illness.

Yes there are angel wing earners who make it harder for men and I curse those male succophants to hell but I also see that women pressure these men using the age old notion that men wish to please women to their benefit. Similar to using a boyfriend to do all the fighting for you.

In most cases women actually perform more evil than men. What is worse, the person who commits the bad act or the puppet master one step removed who manipulates the situation knowing the outcome is unfairness or violence? Is it the pit bull who mauls someone that's bad or the owner who doesn't call it off or encourages it to attack.


I would say the evil is a 50/50 split.  Men are not inherrantly evil but then niether are women.

Here again, the use of the us and them mentality.  First of all we are human.

The Duke case was pushed by a racial agenda first and foremost.  I don't remember lots of women's groups (although I have to admit I don't keep up with them), but I do remember Jackson and Sharpton stirring the pot pretty good.  The Duke case was a political tool used by a corrupt DA.  Had the man not been running for office it would not have gone as far as it did.

Yates and Winkler I do not excuse or support so why keep bringing them up?  If you want to match criminals we can do that.

Name a female criminal and I'll name a male.  Is that the game you want to play?

It accomplishes nothing.  But I guess if makes for fun wordplay.


Men's Rights Activist

Quote
I'm not trying to drive a wedge between anyone.  Are you always this paranoid?

The little cartoons are cute, nonproductive but cute.


I'm not the least bit paranoid, just making observations based on behavior as I did for decades when working with personnel, but I do once again question your impertinent and patronizing communication.

Who set you up as the judge of what is "stupid," or "cute," or "nonproductive" without further qualifications or supporting input?  

As others have pointed out your behavior follows closely the behavior I have observed many gender feminists engaging in, based on the Marxist/Stalinist model.

If it walks like a gender feminist, if it talks like a gender feminist - quack.
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

who me?


Quote
But when the numbers are as lopsided as they are and the movement refuses to hold men that do abuse to a standard but instead make excuses for the behavior; then they should not be shocked to get the same treatment in return.

The stats that Dr de is it? posted clearly show that men are most commonly assaulted by other men.  Refusal to deal with that glaring fact does nothing to curtail abuse in any direction.  

When you hear and read statements made by men cheering on another man that has beaten a woman senseless while supplying them with excuses why do you think females will cheer also?

Someone actually asked me in this thread if someone had to die for abuse to be taken seriously.  He failed to see that people do die as a result of domestic violence.  The majority of those dying are women and children.  That doesn't seem important though; they are just women and children.

Abuse should not be tolerated or cheered.  It doesn't matter what the gender of the victim or the perpetrator.  Abuse is wrong.

For generations the pendulum was swinging in favor of men's rights.  Women's rights were an afterthought at best.  Now it has swung in the opposite direction.  It needs to be centered.

But it's not going to happen as long as everyone holds on to this us and them mentality.


When you go to a d.v. conference and hear gender feminists tell you that "all" those 440 male victims of intimate partner homicide were batterers you get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

When all men are denied access to domestic violence shelter and services in states like CA you get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

Why is all this happening?  Answer:  So lying, evil gender feminists running the domestic violence industry can get the statistics to get more money to batter and arrest more men, to get more money to batter and arrest more men, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

I have heard from several very reliable sources of gender feminists advocating for more I.P. violence from women against men at an International Family Violence Conf. in San Diego one year.  Statistics based on such an evil system as the one presently supplying the crime stats means very little in light of the fact that men are being abused and not getting the services that they deserve, the services that women get.  In the early 90's, before VAWA, men and women were dying of IPV at equal rates.  Surprising, since VAWA, the number of men being killed has gone down.  If men got the same services as women, when they felt like killing their spouses, I suspect the numbers would be equal again so it is time for the evil, gender feminist, Amerikan government to STOP waging their hate war against men before any further talk of accountability and responsibility for domestic violence is talked about.  Give men the same services as women now and the gender feminists out of the domestic violence industry.  The real people responsible for the murders of so many women are the gender feminist bigots running the domestic violence industry so go tell them to accept responsibility for lying about domestic violence and not working to solve the problems based on the truth.  I have heard a report of a prominent gender feminist in the d.v. industry say, "Women are not violent enough."  She advocated women need to get more violent, and why not, as Mary Winkler proved, women can get away with killing their spouses.  And the d.v. industry just considers all men batterers.  Women will never ever be equal or free from domestic violence until men have ALL the same privileges, and pampering, and rights, and protections that women do.  So when are you going to start working to end domestic violence against women by ending all the fraud and lies that exist in today's domestic violence industry in Amerika?  That's the place where the most serious problems exist.


You do understand that many of the women's shelters do not accept men because they are afraid the spouses the women are hiding from will try to pass themselves off as someone needing shelter?

The women's groups started the shelters on their own by raising money.  If I'm not totally off the mark the first was established in New England utilizing funds supplied by churches.

There is nothing keeping men's groups from doing the same thing.  Prove the need and the money will come.

Prove how many men are turned away each year.  It doesn't have to be an either/or when it comes to the funding.  Just prove the need.

Don't be surprised when the women's groups prove a greater need.  There are women and children that are turned away from overcrowded shelters everyday.  That is a fact you can expect to be brought forward.

who me?


Quote
I'm not trying to drive a wedge between anyone.  Are you always this paranoid?

The little cartoons are cute, nonproductive but cute.


I'm not the least bit paranoid, just making observations based on behavior as I did for decades when working with personnel, but I do once again question your impertinent and patronizing communication.

Who set you up as the judge of what is "stupid," or "cute," or "nonproductive" without further qualifications or supporting input?  

As others have pointed out your behavior follows closely the behavior I have observed many gender feminists engaging in, based on the Marxist/Stalinist model.

If it walks like a gender feminist, if it talks like a gender feminist - quack.


Yep, name calling is very productive isn't it? :dontknow:

Enjoy.  Do you feel better now?


who me?


Quote
Every time your pour logic on her argument and watch it dissolve she responds with emotional diatribe.

I'm not emotional at all.

But your little comments are adorable.


Adoration is an emotion Cupcake.

Almost every argument you have made has been logically and irrefutably torn down  by multiple members here.  Yet you refuse to acknowledge this.......your not debating your being contrary and expecting to get away with it because you have a pussy.


No, but go with the feeling.

I see by your postings that you are linguistically limited at best.  So go with what you are good at; one liners.

Yep, does fit you well along with your choice of words. 

Virtue

Completely predictable.   Next you will start with the attacks on sexuality ( your gay or you cant get laid) followed by your just all bitter......I can go on.....your bullshit is predictable because we have heard it so frequently.  Enjoy your pussy pass while it lasts.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

Men's Rights Activist

Quote
I would say the evil is a 50/50 split.  Men are not inherrantly evil but then niether are women.

Here again, the use of the us and them mentality.  First of all we are human.


I heartily agree with your first sentence.  As far as "us/them" I don't see any men's studies programs, or men's commissions using a gender agenda to lie about, batter and abuse the other gender.  Let's face it, the source of the evil gender feminist agenda is all those hundreds of taxpayer funded women's studies programs on college and university campuses teaching male bashing and male demonization 101, 102, 103, etc., etc., etc.








Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Mr. X

#147
Jul 09, 2007, 01:23 PM Last Edit: Jul 09, 2007, 01:25 PM by Mr. X

I would say the evil is a 50/50 split.  Men are not inherrantly evil but then niether are women.

Here again, the use of the us and them mentality.  First of all we are human.

The Duke case was pushed by a racial agenda first and foremost.  I don't remember lots of women's groups (although I have to admit I don't keep up with them), but I do remember Jackson and Sharpton stirring the pot pretty good.  The Duke case was a political tool used by a corrupt DA.  Had the man not been running for office it would not have gone as far as it did.

Yates and Winkler I do not excuse or support so why keep bringing them up?  If you want to match criminals we can do that.

Name a female criminal and I'll name a male.  Is that the game you want to play?

It accomplishes nothing.  But I guess if makes for fun wordplay.




But that is the point of this whole thread, to show that women commit evil at about the same rates as men, even more so given the fact that men usually have physical advantages in some ways. If men are say 1.5 times stronger than women on average then it would follow that men would commit 1.5 times more violence than women. But the stats show women are close to men in DV. That means womena re committing more DV than men given that men have a greater physical advantage.

You started arguing that it was MEN who commit the most amount of violent crimes way back on the second or third page. But clearly you accept that women commit violence as well as men and its not some 99 to 1 ratio. As you say, name a male criminal and I can name a female one. The point is I CAN DO THIS. That men are not the generic "bad guys" as you tried to state earlier when you brought up the stats about who commits the crimes.

We hear about those evil bad priests molesting boys and women's groups are all over the Catholic church tearing them apart even though it was shown the frequency of child molestation cases in the church were no more than the general public. Then BAM! all of a sudden the female teachers come out of the wood work. Again, for every male pedophile, I can now name a female one. I hardly think this is a new endemic situation and what's scary is, like the priest situation, tis been going on FOREVER. The only difference is society covered up the teacher cases because of the incorrect stereotype that women are angels and could never do such a thing.

As for Duke, there is plenty of news footage of women protesting the campus house demanding that a woman's word be believed. Also, have you ever watched Nancy Grace. There's a woman with a hard on for reasonable doubt ---- NOT.

What I am fighting is the stereotypes. The men-bad, women-good paradigm that is false. As you said, treat people as people. That means women lose all special priviledge. They are gray people like all the pother gray people shovelling coal like all the rest of us. If you do believe in "people are human" and "no teams" then all stereotypes and social rules like women never lie about rape have to be abolished.

Men only do worse than women cause they can physically. If women were bigger and stronger than men then we'd be the majority of abused people. Given the strong evidence of women performing over 60% of the child abuse in  this country, its pretty evident that when women are bigger and stronger than a child they can abuse children.

The real issue is power, not gender. People with power can abuse people with less power and sex doesn't matter.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

.

#148
Jul 09, 2007, 01:27 PM Last Edit: Jul 09, 2007, 01:33 PM by johndias
In order to "prove the need" for men and their kids to have shelters, you need to get statistics from the very shelters in whose interest it is to drive men away.  Their method is to classify men who seek help as batterers.  They also count the children of women as battered women, in order to increase their funding.  To "prove the need," you need these feminist-run shelters to divulge the facts.

Also, state legislatures have it written into their penal codes that domestic abuse is defined as a crime "against the woman," hence the need for the lawsuit in California (a ruling is now pending).  That lawsuit seeks redress in order to allow men's shelters to be set up, and receive matching funds just like women's shelters are.  Matching funds means that any donations that the shelter receives, the state will match them.  So you don't even need to "prove need," you just need to set up a shelter and start getting support.  You really only have to "prove that you're receiving financial support," and the state will match it.  But so far (under California state law, which may also be the case in other states),  only women's shelters are legally qualified to receive matching funds, because domestic violence is defined as a crime against the woman.

who me?


Quote
I would say the evil is a 50/50 split.  Men are not inherrantly evil but then niether are women.

Here again, the use of the us and them mentality.  First of all we are human.


I heartily agree with your first sentence.  As far as "us/them" I don't see any men's studies programs, or men's commissions using a gender agenda to lie about, batter and abuse the other gender.  Let's face it, the source of the evil gender feminist agenda is all those hundreds of taxpayer funded women's studies programs on college and university campuses teaching male bashing and male demonization 101, 102, 103, etc., etc., etc.



I've never taken any type of women's study type classes.  For that matter I don't even remember them being offered at the university I attended.  So I can not speak to the course content.  Have you ever read a syllabus for one of these classes or are you just telling me what you have read in articles? 

I do not see a need for them.  But then there are lots of classes offered on some university classes that hold no value beyond the professor being able to hit the required number of students to procure the funding for the class.

It is a numbers game plain and simple.  Get the numbers and the funding will come.

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