Study: 30% of mothers and 40% of fathers are abused during a pregnancy

Started by ., Jul 06, 2007, 09:32 AM

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who me?




all BS to the side, most men on some level do feel like that because we are tired of always seeing femazle violence excused


I agree that it is ignored by the courts.  The only way to defeat that is to press the charges and shove to see they are considered on an equal footing by the court. 

Ignoring the obvious doesn't mean the you are making progress.  It just shows an ability to deny basic fact.

To excuse violence to anyone is really stupid. 

I read much more than I post here.  Something that I've noticed are the excuses...oh the bitch probably....fill in the blank...she was asking for it.

What does that acheive?  I'll tell what it acheives, it keeps your cause pushed to the back and ignored.

Equality is not acheived by stepping up on the body of another.  Equality is supposed to mean equal not superior or more important.

You shouldn't excuse violence against women any more than you tolerate women excusing violence against men.


Placing one group ahead of another is a form of bigotry.  By ignoring one group you're more or less rendering demoting them to a "second-class" status.  The discrimination leads to caos between the two demographics, as the discriminated group will end up fighting back against the people who treated them like second-class citizens.  You're seeing this in action on this board.

Men as a group have been treated as second-class citizens by the law for a long time.  The problem dates back to 19th Century English law.  Women received a large amount of criminal law impunity and civil law privilege over men under 19th Century English Law.  The problem was worsened during the 20th Century when the second-wave feminists came along and inspired the legislators into enforcing more anti-male legal practices.

The result is men are losing empathy and respect for women.  They're starting to hate women and see them as the 'enemy'.  There is some legitimacy behind the way men are acting, as they are subjugated by a force (a coalition between the Government and women) that is far stronger than them.

Blame should be placed on the shoulders of the chivalrous legislators and women who have exploited men.  They've created a 'battle of the sexes' that has led to normal men feeling that the only alternative is to doubt and hate anything that is female.

You'll find that men will oppose 'violence against women' when the law system and women oppose 'violence against men'.  The problem is the media, the Government and society in general treats violence against men as a joke.  You cannot expect men to care about violence agaisnt women when society portrays violence against men as 'okay'.  It is wrong for men to not care about violence against women, but you cannot blame men for thinking this way when they live in a society that treats violence against men as a joke.  It's a example of why the chivalrous men and feminists are an enemy of women, as they're more or less turning normal men against women.


The domestic violence laws in the majority of states are gender nuetral as they should be.  The enforcement is where the problem exist in those states.

That has to be changed by getting the word.  You are not going to find many women that believe other women have the right to abuse their spouse or b/f just as the majority of men do not feel a man has the right to abuse his soupse or g/f. 

That is the stiuation that should be addressed...the enforcement of those laws that are on the book in the states who's laws are gender nuetral.

There also needs to be a concerted effort to see that the laws are gender nuetral in all states.

That will not be achieved by ignoring the problems that exist in regard to domestic violence.  It will not be achieved by ignoring the problems we have in our society in regard to violent attacks in general.

Meanwhile, back at the farm 2 more pregnant women have come up missing just this past week.  They are most likely dead. 

How many husbands of pregnant women have come up missing this week and are most likely dead on the other hand?

You can't cheer one and morn the other and expect anyone that can think and reason to back you on the deal.

If it's equality you want; go for it.  You will find much support.  But if you are looking to turn the clock back you will get absolutely nowhere.

Also I think you missed something in my posts.  I was comparing the figures between death caused by male on male attacks compared to death caused by female on male attacks.  There is a huge cavern between those numbers.  For the sake of reason and honesty they should not be ignored.

Houston we have problems here.  The problem is violence.  It should not be tolerated, ignored, or cheered.  But it looks like some just can't help themselves.......and then they wonder why things are the way they are?  Those people are part of the problem.

The Gonzman


Also I think you missed something in my posts.  I was comparing the figures between death caused by male on male attacks compared to death caused by female on male attacks.  There is a huge cavern between those numbers.  For the sake of reason and honesty they should not be ignored.


You missed it.  Women have many places where the discourse is about them.  They have agencies, commissions, advocates, organizations, and such by the score.  There are so many for women that many collapse or get assimilated by their competition.  Plenty of people arte talking and doing about women.

Few are talking or doing anything for men.  We have been told "Do for yourself."

So, we are.  And this is about US. 

Your tactic is a blatant - and tired - attempt to dilute our efforts.  "We're going to make women's organizations, and exclude men - BUT - men's organizations have to include women!"  Fuck. That.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

dr e

Yes, we do have a problem with violence.  You mention 2 women who are missing this week and that is a valid concern.  However it is absolutely dwarfed by the problem of violence against men.  I would estimate that over 300 men have been murdered in the last week in the United States of America.  That's 150 x's your figure.  This is a huge problem and one that is getting a tiny fraction of the attention women who are victims of DV are getting.  This shows your sexism and favoritism/female firstism.

The laws are equal in the majority of states on DV?  That's a ridiculous claim.  How can that be when the legislation that funds all of the states is so blatantly sexist.  The VAWA continues to overtly ignore the pain of men and chivalrously run to the aid of women in need.  I was involved in the last re-auhtorization of the VAWA on the hill and saw first hand how we were ignored completely and our speakers which we submitted to speak at the hearings were ignored and passed over.  Who was allowed to speak?  All of those from the present system that gave the same "dog and pony show" that has gone on for the last 10 years.  Not one voice that was offering to speak about men who were victims of domestic violence was allowed to speak.  I truly thought I had been transported to North Korea.  There is no fairness here, only sexism.  To me, seeing what you write is truly comical.  You don't have a clue of what is really going on.  The radical idealogues have command of this legislation and won't let any other victims near it.  This isn't compassion for those in need, this is selfishness fueled by hatred.

Sexism rules the hill.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

who me?


Yes, we do have a problem with violence.  You mention 2 women who are missing this week and that is a valid concern.  However it is absolutely dwarfed by the problem of violence against men.  I would estimate that over 300 men have been murdered in the last week in the United States of America.  That's 150 x's your figure.  This is a huge problem and one that is getting a tiny fraction of the attention women who are victims of DV are getting.  This shows your sexism and favoritism/female firstism.

The laws are equal in the majority of states on DV?  That's a ridiculous claim.  How can that be when the legislation that funds all of the states is so blatantly sexist.  The VAWA continues to overtly ignore the pain of men and chivalrously run to the aid of women in need.  I was involved in the last re-auhtorization of the VAWA on the hill and saw first hand how we were ignored completely and our speakers which we submitted to speak at the hearings were ignored and passed over.  Who was allowed to speak?  All of those from the present system that gave the same "dog and pony show" that has gone on for the last 10 years.  Not one voice that was offering to speak about men who were victims of domestic violence was allowed to speak.  I truly thought I had been transported to North Korea.  There is no fairness here, only sexism.  To me, seeing what you write is truly comical.  You don't have a clue of what is really going on.  The radical idealogues have command of this legislation and won't let any other victims near it.  This isn't compassion for those in need, this is selfishness fueled by hatred.

Sexism rules the hill.


Yes we do have a big problem with violence in this country.  Of the hundreds of men that were murdered last week.......at whose hand?  Were the majority of those deaths at the hands of other men or women?  It appears there is a need to ignore the violence against men perpetrated by men and act as if as many men are murdered by women each week.

The statistics do not prove that.  In fact just the opposite point is driven home.

As far as the domestic violence laws; yes I do understand that in some states they are lopsided to say the least.  That needs to be addressed loud and clear.  But it has to be accomplished on the state level.  The worst offenders in that area should be held up to public scrutiny

In the majority of the states it isn't the law but the enforcement of the law that needs to be addressed.  It isn't a one size fits all situation and should not be treated as such.

As far as the men not being allowed to speak at the VAWA conference.......that's wrong.  For one thing it shouldn't be exclusive to violence against women.  The name in and of itself is ignoring 1/2 of the problem.

Maybe it needs to be approached as no excuse for domestic violence in general. 

It is a problem from both sides.  One should not be excluded, ignored, or justified.  That is my point.


who me?

Just so none of you get the impression that I'm backing out of the debate.

I'll be out of pocket for the next 24 hours or so.  My husband is having shoulder surgery today and he is my first concern.

I'll be back after he is released from the hospital.

dr e

Quote
Yes we do have a big problem with violence in this country.  Of the hundreds of men that were murdered last week.......at whose hand?  Were the majority of those deaths at the hands of other men or women?  It appears there is a need to ignore the violence against men perpetrated by men and act as if as many men are murdered by women each week.


What difference does it make who the perpetrator might be?  Do you care about all victims or just those who are female victims of men?  I mean really, what difference does it make who perpetrated the crime.  The end result to the victim is exactly the same no matter who the perpetrator might have been:  They are DEAD.  Your trying to split off worthy victims versus unworthy victims shows your bigotry and sexism.  Victims are victims.  It is laughable how you blame and devalue male victims due to the sex of their perpetrators. 

Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

poiuyt

Quote
What difference does it make who the perpetrator might be?  Do you care about all victims or just those who are female victims of men?  I mean really, what difference does it make who perpetrated the crime.  The end result to the victim is exactly the same no matter who the perpetrator might have been:  They are DEAD.  Your trying to split off worthy victims versus unworthy victims shows your bigotry and sexism.  Victims are victims.  It is laughable how you blame and devalue male victims due to the sex of their perpetrators.


This nailed it.

Bravo ...

Feminism is indeed chauvenism.

devia

Unless you can call gangs and other criminal freinds family then those deaths are not DV related. In a discussion about DV it's apples and oranges.

How many of those deaths were suburban white men?

On topic what is the base line for abuse, what is considered abuse in this study? It sounds like a 1 in 6 stat to me. Holding up stats as proof when they fit your agenda and disbelieving them when they don't is something you accuse feminists of.

Do you belive that 30% of women are abused when they are pregnant?









The Gonzman


Quote
Yes we do have a big problem with violence in this country.  Of the hundreds of men that were murdered last week.......at whose hand?  Were the majority of those deaths at the hands of other men or women?  It appears there is a need to ignore the violence against men perpetrated by men and act as if as many men are murdered by women each week.


What difference does it make who the perpetrator might be?  Do you care about all victims or just those who are female victims of men?  I mean really, what difference does it make who perpetrated the crime.  The end result to the victim is exactly the same no matter who the perpetrator might have been:  They are DEAD.  Your trying to split off worthy victims versus unworthy victims shows your bigotry and sexism.  Victims are victims.  It is laughable how you blame and devalue male victims due to the sex of their perpetrators. 


Doesn't even matter that.  Any woman who is a victim - hell, even if she is a victim of her own stupidity - can open any phone book and have her choice of agencies, charities, or what-have-you, willing to bend over backwards to solve her problem, and as likely as not on the taxpayer dime, and for free.

But you'll search long and hard for a blessed one of them that will provide a referral for men to an agency where they have to pay, let alone provide even a paid service for men.

And now - ONCE AGAIN - after decades of "Start your own _________" we have some woman-firsting feminag coming in here telling us we're sonsofbitches if we do start our own, and don't give women first billing and first attention, and dilute our efforts.

Again - FUCK that.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

who me?


Quote
Yes we do have a big problem with violence in this country.  Of the hundreds of men that were murdered last week.......at whose hand?  Were the majority of those deaths at the hands of other men or women?  It appears there is a need to ignore the violence against men perpetrated by men and act as if as many men are murdered by women each week.


What difference does it make who the perpetrator might be?  Do you care about all victims or just those who are female victims of men?  I mean really, what difference does it make who perpetrated the crime.  The end result to the victim is exactly the same no matter who the perpetrator might have been:  They are DEAD.  Your trying to split off worthy victims versus unworthy victims shows your bigotry and sexism.  Victims are victims.  It is laughable how you blame and devalue male victims due to the sex of their perpetrators. 




Strange, I thought the topic was domestic violence.  Are you saying all of the men you spoke of were murdered by domestic partners or are you attempting to change the subject?

I'm not devaluing the life of any man but I guess while you are jumping to conclusions that one will work for you as well as any other.

So now we are back to some of the first points I made in this thread.  Until the men's groups try to speak honestly about the subject of domestic violence instead of trying to ignore the numbers and take the issue seriously despite the gender of the victim or the gender of the perpetrator they can not be expect to be taken seriously.

Yeah, you nailed it alright.  You drifted back to my original point in an attempt to shift the subject.

Cordell Walker

who me?
hope the husbands surgery went ok

seriously,  "the numbers" , what do they tell; hell,  the way the cops operate, a woman could beat the hell out of a man and then have him arrested for domestic abuse for hurting her hand
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

dr e


Last time I checked murders related to domestic violence are included in the general category of murder.  The sad fact is that men are the overwhelming majority of those murder victims.  I was pointing out that you are focusing on a tiny fraction of the violence in the US and by doing so are missing the larger and more important picture.  You remind me of someone in the ER jumping up and down and demanding that the patient's sprained wrist get immediate attention...but ignoring that the major problem is that the patient had both legs severed by a train. 

I see many men who are concerned about violence against women.  I see our government concerned about this and pouring tons of money to try and make a difference.  What I don't see is those same people and our government showing anywhere near the same concern for men.  The men here see the same thing and rightly focus on those who are ignored and in need.  You come in and complain that by focusing on the men in need they are HURTING WOMEN!  Oh please, take that old world shaming crap someplace else.  This is a board that focuses on men and how they are in need and ignored in situation after situation.  Don't like it?  Find a different place to post.   We really don't need people trying to tell us how bad we are for not pushing their pet agenda. 





Quote
Yes we do have a big problem with violence in this country.  Of the hundreds of men that were murdered last week.......at whose hand?  Were the majority of those deaths at the hands of other men or women?  It appears there is a need to ignore the violence against men perpetrated by men and act as if as many men are murdered by women each week.


What difference does it make who the perpetrator might be?  Do you care about all victims or just those who are female victims of men?  I mean really, what difference does it make who perpetrated the crime.  The end result to the victim is exactly the same no matter who the perpetrator might have been:  They are DEAD.  Your trying to split off worthy victims versus unworthy victims shows your bigotry and sexism.  Victims are victims.  It is laughable how you blame and devalue male victims due to the sex of their perpetrators. 




Strange, I thought the topic was domestic violence.  Are you saying all of the men you spoke of were murdered by domestic partners or are you attempting to change the subject?

I'm not devaluing the life of any man but I guess while you are jumping to conclusions that one will work for you as well as any other.

So now we are back to some of the first points I made in this thread.  Until the men's groups try to speak honestly about the subject of domestic violence instead of trying to ignore the numbers and take the issue seriously despite the gender of the victim or the gender of the perpetrator they can not be expect to be taken seriously.

Yeah, you nailed it alright.  You drifted back to my original point in an attempt to shift the subject.

Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

poiuyt

Quote
Re: Study:  30% of mothers and 40% of fathers are abused during a pregnancy


Quote
How about the difference in the result of the abuse?

Are men more likely to die than women?

Or do you guys prefer to overlook the leading cause of death in pregnant women?


But YOU shifted the articles goalposts in trying to introduce the "difference in result [by sex]of the abuse" during pregnancy, hence the logical extension to "differences in results [by sex] of violent abuses" overall.

Mr. X

Quote from: who me?
Yes we do have a big problem with violence in this country.  Of the hundreds of men that were murdered last week.......at whose hand?  Were the majority of those deaths at the hands of other men or women?  It appears there is a need to ignore the violence against men perpetrated by men and act as if as many men are murdered by women each week.


And thousands of kids are abused every week... at who's hands? Women. Women commit the majority of child abuse. Do you dismiss when girls are hurt by mothers?

Again why do you base your arguement on WHO perpetuates crime and then use that as an excuse to ignore the crime committed against men? Should we ignore the girls abused by their mothers cause that's a crime of woman on woman?

Hey why not break it down by race as well. If more blacks are killed by blacks should white people ignore it?

You mean to tell me if women were the majority of people killed in this country AND the persp were women I can ignore what happens to women cause that would be a crime of woman on woman?

It seems the goal for women then is if they are at least .00000001% better than men then ALL MEN can be ignored and ONLY WOMEN can be helped.

Way more men get murdered in this country and your attitude is "well it ain't my concern"? And then you argue we men should help women? Wow, that's amazing. I'm surprised more men haven't just up and flipped you women off and told you to fend for yourselves.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

devia

<<<Women commit the majority of child abuse.>>>

That's a 'DUH'.

Women commit the majority of child rearing, hence they will commit the majority of abuse.

What sucks about the above arguement (women commit the majority of child abuse) is it fails to take stats on a level playing field.

The majority of children spend the majority of time around their mothers.

Yes or no? Who the heck cares?

But this is a derailing of the thread.  DO you beleive that 30% of women are abused during pregnacy?


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