proof and point

Started by outdoors, Aug 07, 2007, 07:15 AM

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outdoors

 i have been trying to get funding for a men's alternative safe house and have been met with sarcasm by some and enthusiasm from others in my town-but no funding.
I also have been exposing the truth as to the lies concerning domestic abuse against men- and met with vigourous opposition by some and again support from others.
I don't know if i would call it luck or not(not for the men )but with two throat slashings of men in the last few months in my town  by women,things are really starting to take shape in my favour.These two stories made the news and have really opened some eyes as to the need for a mens safe house,and all of a sudden i don't sound like i am such a radical in my mission.
the first woman was offered two years probation and to refrain from alcohol and drugs for that period-which she quickly refused.She ended up getting 3 months jail time,because of the 3 months she has already spent doing "dead time"..6 months for cutting a man's throat,i am not impressed-any man doing the same type of crime would have been givin 6 years NOT 6 months.The other womans court date is coming up.I also wonder why these women were not charged with attempted mascucide instead of agravated assault.
Why am i getting more support from women than i am from men?

anyways i had to blow off some steam-thanx;
                outdoors

dr e



Why am i getting more support from women than i am from men?

anyways i had to blow off some steam-thanx;
                outdoors


This is one of the most eye-opening annd frustrating parts about trying to make changes in a real world environment.  The men often times are less helpful and supportive than the women.  It is the men we have to fight in order to get services.  The reason for this which is also the reason that feminists have had such an easy time in getting legislation passed and services funded, is because men are genetically, hormonally and socially programmed to take care of (provide and protect) women.  Men are asleep in a sea of provide and protect and refuse to wake to the humanist idea that men are also in need sometimes.

I hear your frusttration and can only nod my head with a similar experience.  For all of our upset with the feminists it is the sleeping and bigoted men in power who are a huge force that is against us.

Sounds like you are doing some great work!
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

typhonblue


The reason for this which is also the reason that feminists have had such an easy time in getting legislation passed and services funded, is because men are genetically, hormonally and socially programmed to take care of (provide and protect) women. 


Having lived in a culture in which 'provide and protect women' seemed to be the last thing on men's minds, I have to disagree.

A few weeks ago I heard a story about a medic deployed in the middle east. A clinic had opened up offering free health care. The medic came in to take appointments and found all the men standing first in line with the women standing after them. She quickly 'corrected' this injustice with a, no doubt selfrighteous, shrill call of 'Women and Children FIRST!"

There are cultures where women are expected to do the heavy lifting, expected to provide equally and expected to do for themselves.

dr e



The reason for this which is also the reason that feminists have had such an easy time in getting legislation passed and services funded, is because men are genetically, hormonally and socially programmed to take care of (provide and protect) women. 


Having lived in a culture in which 'provide and protect women' seemed to be the last thing on men's minds, I have to disagree.

A few weeks ago I heard a story about a medic deployed in the middle east. A clinic had opened up offering free health care. The medic came in to take appointments and found all the men standing first in line with the women standing after them. She quickly 'corrected' this injustice with a, no doubt selfrighteous, shrill call of 'Women and Children FIRST!"

There are cultures where women are expected to do the heavy lifting, expected to provide equally and expected to do for themselves.


Putting women first is not necessarily related to providing and protecting. Here's a test for the culture you lived in and observed.  Would the men allow their women to have sex with strangers visiting town?  Why not?  Remember treating someone as if they are your property doesn't mean you are not providing and protecting.  Did the men take pride in being the protector and provider?  I would bet yes.  What do you think?

Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

typhonblue


Putting women first is not necessarily related to providing and protecting. Here's a test for the culture you lived in and observed.  Would the men allow their women to have sex with strangers visiting town?  Why not?


It's not that they wouldn't let them have sex with strangers visiting town. It's that they would drown them or stone them to death if they did.

I think that's one reason why their population is 2-1 male-to-female.

Quote
Remember treating someone as if they are your property doesn't mean you are not providing and protecting.  Did the men take pride in being the protector and provider?  I would bet yes.  What do you think?


No, I don't think so. But it's difficult to say as the upper class didn't work and in the lower class both women and men worked. In the middle was basically a bunch of bachelors working for themselves.

And being too accomodating towards women-- carrying heavy loads, opening doors, being courteous-- was seen as not macho.

I think if the modern western he-mangina visited and bragged about how hard he works to support his wife, they'd probably laugh at him and call him a pussy-whipped weenie. If there was any pride in providing for and protecting women, I didn't see signs of it.

dr e

Typhon - Ruling with an iron fist does not indicate that they are not merged with the idea of providing and protecting.  Mistreating people and treating them poorly doesn't necessarily indicate someone who is not interested in providing and protecting.  Look at it like this:  They are interested in providing and protecting their PROPERTY.  The women were a part of their "empire" over which they ruled.  The basics of being a King is to provide and protect and insure the kingdom is viable.  There are good kings and bad kings, selfish and selfless but they all have dominion over their kingdoms and have a vested interest in "providing and protecting."  IOW's they have a vested interest in the success of their kingdom

If your example had been of a band of men who were only living life for their own interests and picked up women as they went and then dumped them when they felt finished with them I would say that you have a good point.   
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

MAUS


i have been trying to get funding for a men's alternative safe house and have been met with sarcasm by some and enthusiasm from others in my town-but no funding.
I also have been exposing the truth as to the lies concerning domestic abuse against men- and met with vigourous opposition by some and again support from others.
I don't know if i would call it luck or not(not for the men )but with two throat slashings of men in the last few months in my town  by women,things are really starting to take shape in my favour.These two stories made the news and have really opened some eyes as to the need for a mens safe house,and all of a sudden i don't sound like i am such a radical in my mission.
the first woman was offered two years probation and to refrain from alcohol and drugs for that period-which she quickly refused.She ended up getting 3 months jail time,because of the 3 months she has already spent doing "dead time"..6 months for cutting a man's throat,i am not impressed-any man doing the same type of crime would have been givin 6 years NOT 6 months.The other womans court date is coming up.I also wonder why these women were not charged with attempted mascucide instead of agravated assault.
Why am i getting more support from women than i am from men?

anyways i had to blow off some steam-thanx;
                outdoors


Outdoors, I worked a summer internship at a United Way when Iwas attending University. I have issues with United Way....and if they insist on supporting misandrist groups I am going after THEIR funding next.

Tell me, outdoors,were you rejected by the United Way?......If you were I will make them regret it.

Outdoors, this is my favourite song on that theme...The Los Angeles equivalent to Skid Row in Portland Oregon is Fifth Street, and men who are discarded are "On The Nickle"....turn off your video monitor and turn up the sound....if their is ever a compliation album made of MRA music, I would ask Tom Waits personally for permission to include this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or49SRsV9E4&mode=related&search=

outdoors

Maus-i just fired a letter to united way-thanx-they were never even a suggestion to me.My local m.p.p. gave me some places such as s.o.w. and victim assistance program but funding from v.a.p. is halted till 2008,as for s.o.w. i didn't even apply as i am not a dyke and i don't hate men,so i figured i wouldn't waste my time-but maybe i will yet,just to see what they have to say-lol-i also was refered to a few abused gay help-lines and womens groups, but again-no help for the straight guy.
I think i know enough people around my town that am going to start going around and asking people for donations-its the only way.I already have the food bank, support and their encouragement.As more men are becoming hungry and homeless by the day
I will let you know when i get a response from the united way.
Salvation army  also was very understanding to my cause as they help the "down and out",but again came up dry when it came to funding.
I was also told the trillium foundation might be help but seeing as the ex's father is the director and a feminist supporter-again i didn't bother.

typhonblue


Typhon - Ruling with an iron fist does not indicate that they are not merged with the idea of providing and protecting.  Mistreating people and treating them poorly doesn't necessarily indicate someone who is not interested in providing and protecting.  Look at it like this:  They are interested in providing and protecting their PROPERTY.  The women were a part of their "empire" over which they ruled.  The basics of being a King is to provide and protect and insure the kingdom is viable.  There are good kings and bad kings, selfish and selfless but they all have dominion over their kingdoms and have a vested interest in "providing and protecting."  IOW's they have a vested interest in the success of their kingdom

If your example had been of a band of men who were only living life for their own interests and picked up women as they went and then dumped them when they felt finished with them I would say that you have a good point.   


I'd be the first to say that men can 'lead' for the benefit of women. But that wasn't what I was seeing. It was more then 'women are property', it was more like 'women are basically worthless aside from what they can provide men.'

The problem I have with what you're saying is that I see a big distiction between men who see women in terms of what women can do for them and men who see _themselves_ in terms of what they can do for women.

The first attitude does exist. And men in societies like that don't measure their manhood based on how well they 'provide for and protect' women. In fact I think they see whatever they do for women to be a nuisance and a drain--as well as potentially effeminate behavior--rather then a point of pride.

Again, men don't really provide for women and they don't protect them either, in the lower classes women work to provide for their families. There really is not much of a middle class, but I suppose the employed permenant, never-getting-married bachelors, _working for themselves_ might count as middle class. And in the upper class no body works, they just get oil money.

devia

Open it yourself.


shiva

Have to agree with Typhonblue on this one. Practically any research on tribes and races of people soon reveals that there have been plenty of societies in which the men don't provide for or protect their women or children, and basically live at their expense parasitically. There are examples of the reverse as well, but it's not looking like they are the majority. Until recently they weren't, at least. History has so many examples of bad ideas all across the board.
The above is the individual opinion of shiva. Unless stated otherwise, it's just an opinion; please do not confuse with a certified expert's individual opinion.

dr e

Okay Typhon let's break this down and make it easy.  Two questions:

Do the men in your examples provide the women with clothing, food, shelter and the other necessities of living?  Yes or no?

Do the men in your examples protect the women from rape, murder, or some other intrustion from outside sources that might injure them in some way?  Yes or no.

If you answer yes to both then these men provide and protect. 
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

TheManOnTheStreet


Open it yourself.


Devia.... What a very typical feminist response.

Is it that you just cannot get it?  Or is it that you just refuse to...

There are systems in place.  Millions out there for assistance.  Why should HE have to?  Shouldn't it be equally allowed, offerd, and disbursed?

It is one thing to complain that all the drive-in theaters are gone now... and someone saying, "well then, open one up!"  It is entirely another thing to say it about social programs (monies) that are SUPPOSED to be for THE PEOPLE... not just one half "justified" by lies, deception, and MISinformation.

TMOTS
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

outdoors

Devia-I already have made it known that i have a safe house available to men and thier children. Still gotta feed them,still have to provide toiletries etc..oh,and lets not forget hydro and things like that.
Even the people that i have told are skeptical and i don't really know if they are telling any-one about it.ie the hosp.  other councilling services in the area,and all the local churches
they all wanna know where the safe house is and what organization is running it.
I have to tell them it wouldn't be a safe house if every-one knew where it is-so i won't tell them.
As far as an organization my response is-why do men need an organization to be safe?
Any place ,organization or not, is better than nothing.
I think the biggest problem is that the fems would hate to see something like this open as it would put an end to the lies of"only women are victims" and thus put a wrench in their exclusive funding-I mean god forbid that the fems are not put on a pedestol and treated above and foremost to male victims of domestic violence.

typhonblue


Okay Typhon let's break this down and make it easy.  Two questions:

Do the men in your examples provide the women with clothing, food, shelter and the other necessities of living?  Yes or no?

Do the men in your examples protect the women from rape, murder, or some other intrustion from outside sources that might injure them in some way?  Yes or no.

If you answer yes to both then these men provide and protect. 


The upper class women get the benefit of oil money, just like the men. The lower class women provide materially for the family _with_ men.

I suppose in the upper classes you could say the men are 'providing' because they allow women to benefit from oil money, but they don't do a stich of labor or put any effort into it.

Coupling that with what I know of their attitudes towards women, if they _had_ to make an effort to support a woman living in greater luxury to themselves, they _wouldn't_.  So, no.

As for the rape. There isn't any protections against rape. The women are compelled to take responsibility for protecting themselves from rape by modifying their dress and behavior. And when women are raped, they are usually blamed for having been raped and punished as adulterers.

Again, no.

It's really hard to explain the depth of how little they care about women unless you've lived there. There is no 'provider or chivalrous pride', women are valued only for what they give to men and any sense that a woman is living for herself--instead of accomodating men--is usually punished rather swiftly.

Even something as basic as escaping from a burning building without wearing sufficently modest clothing. Women are expected to burn to death before they assault male eyes with their _very_ minimal nudity.

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