Bachelorette parties- immaturity and sexism

Started by realman, Dec 06, 2007, 07:41 AM

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Garak

#15
Dec 06, 2007, 10:33 AM Last Edit: Dec 06, 2007, 10:40 AM by Pentium 4
You ask how men would act if given complete freedom. Well, you answered that yourself, we have proven ourselves and our species lived on.

We didn't have to take care of women and children as cavemen, but we did. When someone had to step up to the plate and take charge, it was us. All through history we have protected women. We have built civilizations where women and children can live comfortable happy lives and this is the thanks we get.

It could have gone either way, women could have been the ones to step up and take charge but it isn't in their nature. You see, leadership is something that requires a person to think about the welfare of others, the opposite of selfishness.

Men are still supporting women and children and many would do it without being forced. That is the true nature of men, the government forcing it is only leaving a bitter taste in our mouths because we have been doing of our own free will all along.

However, the gravy train is coming to an end. Men do ask for respect for supporting women and children, I think this is more than fair  but now that it is being forced and no respect is given...like I said, the gravy train is coming to an end.

One thing that drives men protecting ourselves these days is that we know what to expect from women acting on their own nature.

It reminds me of a parable I saw in a Voyager episode about a scorpion and a fox:

A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.

The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."

The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."

The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.

As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."

"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."




I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

Mr. X




Why is it difficult to haul female patrons out of clubs?


According to the guy I knew who danced in one of these joints, a number of bad things can happen.  Typically, all of the ejectee's friends leap to her defense, screaming and thrashing around about how rough and out of line the bouncer is for putting his hand on her wrist when all she did was put her mouth where it was not invited.  At this stage, the bouncer is in a situation that is six or more to one, and physically dangerous.  The gang is steadily escalating the conflict and trying to pull the other patrons into the incident.  The club manager and bouncers now have a choice to make.  They can call the police.  That basically means closing early, and is a risky proposition.  Some police will gallantly arrest the bouncer.  The bouncer could slug the ringleader and drag her and the offender out.  Then he will definitely spend the night in jail.  Or the manager can signal the bouncer to throw up his hands like he always does, apologize for the woman's sexual assault on a dancer "misunderstanding", and start the music back up.  Meanwhile, all dancers leave the floor, drinks and food are no longer served to the offender's party, and after a few minutes a waitress drops by the table and whispers to the bachelorette "Maybe you should ask your friend to leave.  Now."  Option number three is the least bad for business.


Add to this three factors.

1. Women feel they can hit as hard as they like and as much as they like cause they "can't hurt men" and men "can take it" and if he can't he's a wuss.

2. The law protects women when using force. If a woman is jumped by a mugger and she uses excessive force on him (breaks his legs while he's down or his pelvis) she will not be charged with excessive use of force. If I beat up a mugger too hard I will be jailed and/or sued by the mugger. The female will not be charged for using excessive force on a man. The bouncer, on the other hand, must watch is Ps and Qs all the way.

3. Its a merit badge for women to beat men up. Even IF they get hauled in nothing really will happen to them, they will be treated with kitt gloves and what bouncer is actually going to press charges. Also how many women get raped in a lock up vs men who get raped in a lock up.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Garak

Quote
Anyway, getting back to the original topic, does anyone else see the sad irony in women acting in such selfish, sexist ways even as they are about to profess their "love" for a man?


The love of a woman is conditional, very much unlike we are taught. That is why we are so easily fooled, there is a false sense of security until we really sit down and think about past relationships.

How many mothers have turned on their own children over feminist ideas (mine did)?



I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

dr e


If you look at most women you know you will realize that they are alot like big children. They are very materialistic and never seem to get out of the high school gossip stage.


That's a waring for you P4.  You don't have any left.  I strongly suggest that you be careful in your wording or you will be gone.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Garak

#19
Dec 06, 2007, 11:27 AM Last Edit: Dec 06, 2007, 11:35 AM by Pentium 4


If you look at most women you know you will realize that they are alot like big children. They are very materialistic and never seem to get out of the high school gossip stage.


That's a waring for you P4.  You don't have any left.  I strongly suggest that you be careful in your wording or you will be gone.


How so? I qualified it with most.
Besides, do you disagree? I know that I have read things like this on here before.


I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

dr e

"Most" is a generalization.  I would not allow a feminist to come in here and say that "most men are like big children."  I would guess you wouldn't like hearing that either.  Use your words more carefully.  Talk about your own experience.  You could have said, "It has been my experience with the women I have known that they are similar to big children."  This is simply calling on your own experience and is not making a grand statement about the majority of women, only those that you know or have had contact with.  Do you see the difference?
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Garak


"Most" is a generalization.  I would not allow a feminist to come in here and say that "most men are like big children."  I would guess you wouldn't like hearing that either.  Use your words more carefully.  Talk about your own experience.  You could have said, "It has been my experience with the women I have known that they are similar to big children."  This is simply calling on your own experience and is not making a grand statement about the majority of women, only those that you know or have had contact with.  Do you see the difference?


Ok, how about this. In my experience this is the nature of women. My experience comes from many sources though, here, other MRA sites, friends, family members, etc...

I am formally asking others if they have had the same experience.



I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

The Invisible Male

I agree with P4 on this one.  *In my personal experience*  :greener: having read many of his past postings, I think he manages to carefully consider his word choices.  His statements are generally well thought out yet passionate.  I operate under the assumption (as I think *most* people do) that a person is speaking from their own life experience unless stated otherwise--I don't think they need to qualify their statements with something to that effect; it's just assumed, unless they are quoting a specific source, such as something they read or heard, in which case I would expect them to quote that source.  If no source is quoted, I'll take it to mean it is from their own experiences, either with people they personally know or as a composite of all the news stories and internet postings they've ever read on the subject.

P4 did say "most" and not "all".  What more can we ask people to do?  If in his experience, say three-quarters of women act a certain way, I would call that "most".  Obviously a person can't put an exact percentage on observations through life experience.  I like that P4 doesn't sugarcoat his observations or try to downplay things to appease anyone.  If he said "some women" I would personally interpret the word "some" to mean maybe 20-40% of women, "few" meaning maybe 10-20%, "rare" under 10%, "equal numbers" 40-60%, "many" or "a lot" 60-80%, and "most" over 80%.  If anyone ever sees me using the above words referring to women, please refer to the above guide for corresponding percentages  :greener:

P4, please don't change your ways.  I love your passion.
The Invisible Man is an 1897 sci-fi novella by H.G. Wells.  The protagonist cannot become visible again, becoming mentally unstable as a result.

The Gonzman

I worked in strip clubs for several years bouncing.  In my experience, the well behaved woman, come ladies' nights, is by far the exception and not the rule.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Garak

#24
Dec 06, 2007, 12:57 PM Last Edit: Dec 06, 2007, 01:01 PM by Pentium 4
Thanks for the support IM.
:toothy9:

We cannot address a problem if we refuse to look at it outside the realm of political correctness.

We tell men to protect themselves from women but we don't even consider that their behavior may be due to their nature. This handicaps men into thinking "my girl would never do that".
I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

realman

#25
Dec 06, 2007, 01:02 PM Last Edit: Dec 06, 2007, 01:13 PM by realman
Pentium I think were saying two sides of the same coin, just "it's their nature- they were that way from day one" vs. "it's their nature, eons of evolution has allowed behavior among women and disallowed it (either through men's own realizations, natural selection (i.e., those men who didn't fill their requirements, or those women who took on "male" roles, were weeded out) among men"

Edited in response to P4s last post: I think the types of flaws we're speaking about are largely flaws of human nature across gender lines... just that we have allowed it among women and disallowed it among men in greatly disproportioante degrees. The reasons for this are subject to interpretation and speculation and your mileage will vary, but I think plenty of men have it in their "nature" to be lazy, materialistic, selfish, etc... and that it is social contructs that are actually behind a man's motivation to work when he's tired, give when he'd liek to get, or act on behalf of others when he actually wants something from them. Or put simply, I think there is just as much "bad" in men as in women, but for whatever reasons men are more motivated to "fight" the "bad" within them, and women are more likely to "accept and embrace" it. I think men get into trouble for assuming in many cases that women fight the same internal fights that men do, when in fact it is questionable. Maybe because men are generally more cognitive, and that internal struggle is largely a cognitive one, so they just assume women think similarly when in fact the female thought processes are rather different? The difference seems to be that even a man who sleeps around on his wife will , when cornered, probably fully admit he was a pig for doing it- even IF she "deserved" it; whereas a woman who sexually mutilates her husband will feel that she was in the right and he deserved it... regardless of his actual infractions or lack thereof.

Regardless of how they got there though, the fact remains that women can act as they do without repercussions because the men are doling out passes instead of consequences... and I do believ that if everyone were okay with it, and human life could thrive despite it, men would act the same way. But for whatever reasons, men and women aren't okay with it, and if men WERE to act that way human life would more or less disappear from earth after a generation or two because nature doesn;t allow for it either.

So how many men out there would actually get a huge kick out of smashing a fake set of tits with a broom handle shortly before they marry a woman? I just don't think many men would find that funny or get a rise out of "sticking it to women" (no pun intended) that way?  I really don't think too many would, and I don't know of any industry marketing such products as the "perky pair pinata".

Mr. X


I worked in strip clubs for several years bouncing.  In my experience, the well behaved woman, come ladies' nights, is by far the exception and not the rule.


I was talking to two female stripper friends today actually (part of my job ironically). They were telling me the male strippers are actually pretty aggressive grabbing women, kissing them, putting their mouths on them etc. Now these ladies I do believe but this is in my town and may not be elsewhere. Again, I had a male friend who was in one of these bars and he had bad times.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

dr e


Thanks for the support IM.
:toothy9:

We cannot address a problem if we refuse to look at it outside the realm of political correctness.

We tell men to protect themselves from women but we don't even consider that their behavior may be due to their nature. This handicaps men into thinking "my girl would never do that".


Stay within the rules here and all will be well.   I have gone out of my way to let you know ways to express yourself that would be within the rules.  Step out of it one more time your account will be disabled.  It's my call.  I really don't care what anyone else thinks or says. 
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

The Invisible Male

You're right P4.  I thought my first wife was unlike the rest and saw nothing blantant until the day she decided to walk out with no warning after 12 years of a seemingly happy marriage.  The last time I ever saw her was 20 minutes after she announced she "can't do this anymore."  20 minutes is how long she gave me to discuss our entire marraige, but of course it wasn't even a real discussion.  Just her laundry list of BS, such as "I never really loved you."  BS-you can't fake loving someone for that long.  She just wanted to make nothing sound open to negotiation or leave any room for me to make her doubt her decision.  I was never wealthly, so I guess she just wanted my sperm, because she was still talking about having kids together just months before she left.  At least I (barely) escaped that scam.  My current wife talked about thinking of resorting to having a child on her own before she met me, and after having heard that, I made it clear I'll only consider having foster children with her.

Can anybody confirm that there's no way I can be held financially responsible for a foster child if we break up?  I assume we could return the foster child in the case of divorce, or if she wanted to keep the child, she'd be solely responsible.  Just starting the ball rolling with the whole process.  If anyone has some advice on this matter, feel free to PM me.  Thanks.
The Invisible Man is an 1897 sci-fi novella by H.G. Wells.  The protagonist cannot become visible again, becoming mentally unstable as a result.

Garak



Thanks for the support IM.
:toothy9:

We cannot address a problem if we refuse to look at it outside the realm of political correctness.

We tell men to protect themselves from women but we don't even consider that their behavior may be due to their nature. This handicaps men into thinking "my girl would never do that".


Stay within the rules here and all will be well.   I have gone out of my way to let you know ways to express yourself that would be within the rules.  Step out of it one more time your account will be disabled.  It's my call.  I really don't care what anyone else thinks or says. 


I can appreciate your position but sometimes things just need to be said. I think that I chose my words wisely and you disagreed. You have the upper hand here as it is your board.

If it were my board I would allow debates on the matter, truly flesh it out and see where it leads. Of course, neither your way nor my way is right or wrong, it is a matter of opinion and as this is your board, you call the shots as per your principles.

I can't fault a man for standing up for his principles.  :greener:
I will stop staring at your boobs when you stop staring at my paycheck!

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