Women hit hardest by economic downturn so need their own bailout!?!?!?

Started by Quentin0352, Nov 28, 2008, 09:56 AM

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dr e

Tony -  You remind me of a bumper sticker I saw today.  It read:  "Don't believe everything you think."

I give up. :BangHead:
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Cordell Walker

you need to give up
or at least give some logical thought to it
what reason, legitimate reason, would it be that JUST BECAUSE 80% of the homeless, a small subgroup of a larger group, the poor, are men; would leave you to beleive that it would be impossible for a slight majority,60%, of the MUCH larger group that the smaller sub group belongs to, the MUCH larger group, being the poor, be women?
Ive already given a reason that men would be underrepresented statistically in the larger group(incarceration, boys from poor families immediatly joining the forces at 18) and the over-representation of men in the sub-group of the larger group(its more difficult for poor men to get housing assistance)
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother


dr e

Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

dr e


Let's say there are 100 poor people and 10 of them are homeless.  There are 60 poor women and 40 poor men altogether (60% men).  Eight of the 10 homeless are men and two of them are women (80% men).


Pat, I should have followed up on your idea before.  It is concrete and simple.  Thanks.  Let's make it 1000 instead of 100. So we get:

5% of the 1000 poor are homeless  N=50
of these 50 80% are men  N=40
of these 50 20% are women N=10

95% of the 1000 poor are poor but not homeless  N=950
of the 950 60% are women  N=570
of the 950 40% are men  N=380

homeless men (40) plus "poor" men (380) = 420
homeless women (10) plus "poor" women (570) = 580

Given the above conditions there are more poor women then there are men.  Using Tony's statement about homeless being 3-5% and women being 60% of the poor there is no other conclusion that can be drawn other than there are more poor women than there are men.  Can you show us one Tony that comes out with more men being poor?  I don't think so.

What I was trying to say on top of this is that by diluting the definition of poor it has accordingly included more women.  i.e. older women who outnumber men by a long shot living on a fixed income, but living comfortably, are considered "poor" by these govt standards.  By doing so they are artificially creating a statistic that bloats the numbers of the poor and makes women the chief victims.   

Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

SIAM

#35
Nov 29, 2008, 09:41 PM Last Edit: Nov 29, 2008, 09:44 PM by SIAM
It all depends how you define "poor".  Today your AVERAGE "poor" person (on welfare, not homeless) live better than the upper class did 100 years ago (in the west we have better health care, transport, food supplies etc).  If in 2008 you rely on horses for transport, and live with 100 year old technology only, you'd certainly be in the "poor" category. 

It's all about definitions.  That's why statements like "60% of the poor peeple are wimmins" is meaningless.  What is poor? It will be some arbitrary income limit.  So what? It's meaningless. 

When you get so poor you are homeless, this is something else.  You have immediate dangers such as freezing to death, being murdered, or simply "expiring" through disease/ill health from a poor constitution from being homeless for many months/years.  Homelessness is the REAL yardstick of being poor. 

dr e

Exactly Siam.  Heres a quote from the article that was linked from Heritage:

Quote
**Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
** Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
** Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
** The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
** Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
** Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
** Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
** Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

SIAM

Quote
**Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
** Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
** Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
** The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
** Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
** Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
** Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
** Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.


LOL - wish I was poor. 

Pat Kibbon

When politicians want to "tax the rich", they often use a very broad definition of who is rich in order to include as many people as possible.  When they want to use that tax money to "help the poor", again, they use the broadest possible definition of who is poor.

I wonder, if you take the government definition of who is
"rich" and its definition of who is "poor" and apply both at the same time would some people turn out to be both rich and poor at the same time?
"We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paper work is overwhelming."

SIAM

Quote
I wonder, if you take the government definition of who is
"rich" and its definition of who is "poor" and apply both at the same time would some people turn out to be both rich and poor at the same time?


"Poor" and "rich" are relative terms, not absolutes, so these terms are used to "make a point" about almost anything.  It's no different to the redefinitions of rape and domestic violence.  Someone makes a point by using meaningless relative terms and then says "SO SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!".

Cordell Walker

one interesting point is  the  relative standard of poverty
in the US, you can literally get a microwave and color TV that works out of a trash can..........so its no surprise that most or many poor households have these things
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

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