Sexism versus Misogyny/Misandry

[Amber]

I think it was Jen who mentioned that she was a sexist because she distinctly prefered men as sexual partners than women.  Hahaha, I thought it was hilarious.

There is a difference between sexism and misogyny/misandry.  Sexism is thinking about someone someway based on their gender.  It is not necessarily good or bad.  But misogny/misandry means you have a hatred of that gender.  Sexism is often rational; misogyny/misandry never is.

There is good and bad sexism.  Or rather, valid and invalid sexism.  Good sexism, like Jen said, may perhaps be being attracted to one sex as that sex - thus judging said person based on their gender.  Bad sexism, I would say, involves making non-verifiable conclusions, such as - women are bad at math, or what have you.



Amber [Proud Sexist, Anti-Misogynist/Misandrist]

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

Indeed, much like you have positive and negative discrimination.

Many people like to say that 'discrimination is bad', however this ignores the fact that we *must* discriminate in order to survive.  I discriminate between what I eat as being poisonous or not, etc.  Many of humanities best decisions have been made as a result of <shock!> discrimination.

Similarily, many people regard sexism as a 'crime against women (and to be fair, less frequently men)', i.e. 'women are only worth the sex they can give'.  Still others regard sexism as simply the assertion that  biological sexism or division exists, i.e. 'men are inately stronger' is a sexist generalization!  Yet still others think sexism is the, 'natural division of gender roles', i.e. sexism is a positive.  God...it's a bit much to keep track of!

[InternetDevil]

Actually, expecting somone you love to fill a rigid set of stereotypes is worse then hatered.  I am a male but my self-respect and sensitivity level is closer to that of females.

[Setaseba]

Actually, expecting somone you love to fill a rigid set of stereotypes is worse then hatered.  I am a male but my self-respect and sensitivity level is closer to that of females.

Okay, that's an interesting thing to say InterDev. Are male and female self-respect different in quality and quantity? Are men less sensitive than females. Men may not express emotions but they have them. Can you explain that a bit better please?

[InternetDevil]

Okay, that's an interesting thing to say InterDev. Are male and female self-respect different in quality and quantity? Are men less sensitive than females. Men may not express emotions but they have them. Can you explain that a bit better please?

Maybe it is culture specific to USA today but most men are
1)  far less sensitive to being insulted
2)  care little about themselves (98% of motorcycle riders, etc.)
3)  consider themselves tough
As I was in the past.  But after many many many many lessons I know I am not a superman.  Had I been one I would of been a lawyer and my opinions would of counted far more then some obscure message boards.  Because I thought I was a superman my life is wasted.

[Setaseba]

Maybe it is culture specific to USA today but most men are
1)  far less sensitive to being insulted
2)  care little about themselves (98% of motorcycle riders, etc.)
3)  consider themselves tough
As I was in the past.  But after many many many many lessons I know I am not a superman.  Had I been one I would of been a lawyer and my opinions would of counted far more then some obscure message boards.  Because I thought I was a superman my life is wasted.

Ummm, what has being tough or being a superman - which NONE of us is btw - got to do with self-respect? Toughness isn't insensitivity either. I also don't get how having lower self-respect, because that's what you seem to be saying about yourself, has got to do with being closer to a woman's sense of self-respect.

[InternetDevil]

Women have very hihg self-respect.  As I have after certain events.  In the past I had very low self respect and let myself be mentally abused.

[Setaseba]

Women have very hihg self-respect.  As I have after certain events.  In the past I had very low self respect and let myself be mentally abused.

Okay, NOW I get it. You're saying that guys tend to beat the crap out of themselves and not take care of themselves properly because we think we're strong enough. We tend to stay in bad situations because we don't have the same self-respect that women have and because "It's the right thing to do". I agree with that - g-d knows I thought that way too but I think women also have more options then we do at the moment. They can get help getting out and we have none. Don't want to lose our kids etc.

[InternetDevil]

Okay, NOW I get it. You're saying that guys tend to beat the crap out of themselves and not take care of themselves properly because we think we're strong enough. We tend to stay in bad situations because we don't have the same self-respect that women have and because "It's the right thing to do".

    For instance even as adult I stayed to help my stepmother who was verbally abusive before up to mid-'93.  Then she realised she can't abuse us anymore and stopped.

    I know she is somewhat lonly and in a difficult situation, but I can not be expected to sacrifice myself for her.  Had I abused a woman, I would be in prison and no one would have cared about my happiness.  Why should I sacrifice myself to care for hers?

[Setaseba]

I know she is somewhat lonely and in a difficult situation, but I can not be expected to sacrifice myself for her.  Had I abused a woman, I would be in prison and no one would have cared about my happiness.  Why should I sacrifice myself to care for hers?

Why SHOULD you care? Like I said, abusers die alone - good riddance! To me family is THE most important thing in life. If you betray the trust of the people who love you and depend on you then you're no better than scum. You deserve to lose everything. Period. It's no good saying "I'm sorry" after you've destroyed their lives and it's just not f***ing good enough anyway. If you were so sorry then why did you do it in the first place? Let her die alone InterDev.

[InternetDevil]

I know she is somewhat lonely and in a difficult situation, but I can not be expected to sacrifice myself for her.  Had I abused a woman, I would be in prison and no one would have cared about my happiness.  Why should I sacrifice myself to care for hers?

Why SHOULD you care? Like I said, abusers die alone - good riddance! To me family is THE most important thing in life. If you betray the trust of the people who love you and depend on you then you're no better than scum. You deserve to lose everything. Period. It's no good saying "I'm sorry" after you've destroyed their lives and it's just not f***ing good enough anyway. If you were so sorry then why did you do it in the first place? Let her die alone InterDev.

I can not be that harsh, and I still have very much contact with her to my own detriment.

LOGICALLY I understand that caring for someone who has abused me to my own stress is like an abused wife going for conjugal visits with her imprisoned husband.

EMOTIONALLY I can not give up...

One more reason why someone who can not protect himself should be involved with BIG politics.

[Setaseba]

I can not be that harsh, and I still have very much contact with her to my own detriment.

LOGICALLY I understand that caring for someone who has abused me to my own stress is like an abused wife going for conjugal visits with her imprisoned husband.

EMOTIONALLY I can not give up...

Well, what can I tell ya big guy? I tried. Some people ARE able to forgive the abuser once they've put it behind them and they're free (and out of danger). I know somebody like that but that doesn't sound like your situation though. One question I have for you though - in 10 years or 20 or whenever this is all over, you're going to look back over your life and realize you wasted all those years on a person or people who didn't give a shit about you. How do you think you'll feel? I think you're going to feel like the biggest dumb F*** that ever lived. That's all I've got to say ID.

[InternetDevil]

I can not be that harsh, and I still have very much contact with her to my own detriment.

LOGICALLY I understand that caring for someone who has abused me to my own stress is like an abused wife going for conjugal visits with her imprisoned husband.

EMOTIONALLY I can not give up...

Well, what can I tell ya big guy? I tried. Some people ARE able to forgive the abuser once they've put it behind them and they're free (and out of danger). I know somebody like that but that doesn't sound like your situation though. One question I have for you though - in 10 years or 20 or whenever this is all over, you're going to look back over your life and realize you wasted all those years on a person or people who didn't give a shit about you. How do you think you'll feel? I think you're going to feel like the biggest dumb F*** that ever lived. That's all I've got to say ID.

I feel dumb already.  I mean I wasted enough years already.

But I do not have the willpower to stop.  Had I seen a masculist therapist say anytime after I turned 18 in '82 I would have been free in a year.

PS.    Your advice is more helpful then that of many therapists I've seen.

[Setaseba]

PS.    Your advice is more helpful then that of many therapists I've seen.

FWIW ID, lot's of men go through this stuff every day. I'll never understand why some people won't let go. Is it that hard to be on your own?

[InternetDevil]

PS.    Your advice is more helpful then that of many therapists I've seen.

FWIW ID, lot's of men go through this stuff every day. I'll never understand why some people won't let go. Is it that hard to be on your own?

I live with my wife since '97.  But I still call and visit my father sister and stepmother a lot.