The Real Holocaust

Started by julie, Jan 25, 2009, 02:49 PM

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julie

Jan 25, 2009, 02:49 PM Last Edit: Jan 26, 2009, 05:55 AM by julie
I think I am beginning to understand the anti Zionist stand and why there is argument over the Holocaust. 


The Ukrainian Kulak Genocide (1932-1933), Known as Holomodor

Part 1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lbX_FYSpiOE

Part2
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRv2K...eature=related

This is copied from a priest's site. I think it sums up much of what is going on.

The HOLODOMOR

http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2008/11/holodomor.html

As we pray for the departed in this Month of the Holy Souls, I hope we will not forget a deeply Christian nation, the Ukrainians, who are commemorating the 75th anniversary of their Holodomor - the deliberately contrived mass starvation which Stalinist Russia unleashed upon them. It is estimated that between seven and ten million of them died.

As well as being a pious act of charity, such prayer would serve to remind us of one or two things. We live in an age of 'Apologies', when we are supposed to be sorry for acts of oppression and cruelty perpetrated by our predecessors; perhaps, for example, in the Slave trade. I am distinctly dubious about this; but, if we are to play such games, and if those of us now who have the 'Christianity' label attached to us are to 'apologise' for iniquities done in past generations by other people who also had the 'Christianity' tag around their necks, then I think it would be rather jolly if those now who wouldn't vastly object to being called Scientific Atheists did a bit of grovelling for what the soi-disant Scientific Atheist Joseph Stalin did.

And it is good to remember that nations other than Jewry have had their holocausts. I think there is something unfortunate about the anger some Zionists ( by which I do not mean all Jews) express when this is mentioned. It is as if they regard their community as having an exclusive right to the status and rhetoric of victimhood. When they go on to treat Palestinians as just a problem, as a group who have no rights and whose land can be appropriated to provide lebensraum ... I think you can guess what I'm going to say.

And, right on our doorstep, we have our own holocaust, the slaughter of the unborn, performed by well-heeled Englishmen with nice accents and clean fingernails who are kind to their children and wouldn't dream of kicking their pet dogs ... rather like the kindly family men who ran the extermination camps, when you think about it.
Posted by Fr John Hunwicke SSC, at 09:31
4 comments:

steely said...

    It is unfortunate that your timely reminder of the suffering of the Ukrainian peoples under Stalin should be linked to ill-considered and provocative remarks about Jews, Zionists and Israel. It is quite simply not the case that there is any general tendency among 'Jewry' to claim an 'exclusive right to the status and rhetoric of victimhood.' Many Holocaust survivors and scholars have done their utmost to draw attention to other historical and contemporary genocides. In Jerusalem for example, Yad Vashem (the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority) has hosted a seminar for survivors of the Rwandan genocide - you can read about it here: http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_yad/magazine/magazine_40/data_40/edu_seminar.html

    Meanwhile, in the Ukraine ancient, ingrained anti-semitism is once again on the increase. In 1941 the rape, torture and murder of Jews got off to an early start in the Ukraine when the locals rounded on their neighbours before the arrival of the Nazi army and death-squads. Sixty-five years later, Jew-hatred is still alive and (quite literally) kicking. The last available Annual Report from The Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism summarised the position in the Ukraine thus: 'the year 2006 witnessed an increase in crime motivated by racial hatred, and a commensurate rise in antisemitic attacks and attempted attacks. Jews were stabbed and beaten, and Holocaust memorials and synagogues desecrated. Some antisemites gained seats in the Ukrainian parliament in the March general election.' You can read the full report on the Institute's website: http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2006/ukraine.htm

    Your comment on the 'Palestinians' is as tendentious as it is ill-informed. In Israel (a genuinely multi-party democracy - can you think of many more Middle Eastern examples?) Arab citizens have full rights; there are Arab Members of the Knesset and Arab judges. The undeniable hardship of Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank is much more a result of local mismanagement (and the diversion of aid funding into terrorist equipment and training) than anything to do with Israel's stern resolve to protect its people from those who still deny its very right to exist. This concern for security is the reason for Israel's continuing presence beyond its internationally recognized borders, rather than any kind of 'land-grab'. Your employment of the 'Nazi slur' against Israel implicit in the use of the term lebensraum (though you did not have the courage to finish your sentence) is unworthy of a Christian priest and I hope you will withdraw it - its use places you in the company of hardened anti-semites and Jew-haters around the world.
   

rev'd up said...

    Uncle Joe was a Jew (married thrice, each time to yentas). Bolshevism was a Jewish phenomena, Sir Winston Churchill (among others) said so himself.

    Jews have aggressively fought against the "genocide" label as it properly should be applied to the events in Ukraine, Turkey and Palestine because each of them is the work of psudoIsrael. Not to mention the African slave trade which was a Jewish enterprise (Jewish sources are used to plainly prove this in the book "The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews" and subsequent research of Dr. Tony Martin).

    In an honest assessment of the abortion industry, one must reasonably come to the conclusion that the vast majority of its practitioners, proponents and professional defenders are Jews.

    How convenient that Jews, when confronted with these realities, always boast in the Shoah.

    Father, I commend your courage making what statements you did; too few Christians stand up for truth these days. However, your appellation of the German work camps as "extermination camps" is inaccurate. If this claim could be substantiated with more than threats, bluster and Hollywood propaganda, then it should be done. Unfortunately, in the very countries that these crimes are said to have taken place, it is a crime to scientifically investigate the validity of the Jewish claims.

Edit; And Oh, Oh, Oh... Dr E, "I don't have a bible in my hand. I doubt I would be allowed to speak up for any religion".


Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

Cordell Walker

joe stalin was NOT jewish
he was georgian and educated in a xtian seminary
his real name was djugashivilli
he was in no way jewish and himself was a rabid anti semite
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

The Gonzman

And as a communist, he was an atheist.

But hey, why let such trivialities as history and documentable facts get in the way of a good Jew-Bashing?
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Cordell Walker


And as a communist, he was an atheist.

But hey, why let such trivialities as history and documentable facts get in the way of a good Jew-Bashing?


he wasnt even ethnically jewish gonz
he was an ethnic georgian and was raised  orthodox xtian
I know pretty much everything there is to know about stalin
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

julie

So... back to the drawing board you reckon?

Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

Cordell Walker


So... back to the drawing board you reckon?




how bout for starters doing a bit of research about  stalin and stalinist russia
stalin purged all or most of the  old gaurd  bolshevicks who were ethincially jewish
he was a rabid anti semite who referred to jews as filthy yids
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

julie



So... back to the drawing board you reckon?




how bout for starters doing a bit of research about  stalin and stalinist russia
stalin purged all or most of the  old gaurd  bolshevicks who were ethincially jewish
he was a rabid anti semite who referred to jews as filthy yids


I just bolded some words to show the post was not saying Stalin was Jewish. But I will research some about Stalin.
Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

askance

Hmmm,


Zionist murder spree, gotcha. Ever heard of pogroms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ukraine
or was this Wikipedia page altered by zionist operatives controlling the media?
__________________________


http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2009/01/gaudium-et-spes.html

So he's happy. It warms his heart to have Bishop Richard Williamson welcomed back to the bosom of the Roman Catholic faith, and furthering Christian unity.

Including the dear Bishop's views. That would be the firmly held and disseminated view that the collapse of the twin towers on 9/11 was caused by demolition explosives.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=E7fjGxfNsKk

Yaaayyyy - the Vatican does trutherism !!

Oh and the obligatory holocaust denial . . .

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuXe2RM

I hear he likes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion too!! Good company to keep.

________________________

So Julie - "This is copied from a priest's site. I think it sums up much of what is going on."

I'm a bit thick and slow. Could you tell us all just what you think is "going on"??

_______________________

Geez, I thought MRAs had enough PR problems, does it really need to add this one?


Mk

gwallan

Very interesting read at Gendercide...

Case Study : Stalin's Purges
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

Mr. X


Very interesting read at Gendercide...

Case Study : Stalin's Purges


Quote
The gendering of the witch-hunt was cast into particularly sharp relief in those cases where most, sometimes almost all, adult males among a given population were rounded up for mass arrest and probable death. Writes Robert W. Thurston: "According to some reports, entire groups of men were taken in one swoop by the NKVD. 'Almost all the male inhabitants of the little Greek community where I lived [in the lower Ukraine] had been arrested,' recalled one émigré. Another reported that the NKVD took all males between the ages of seventeen and seventy from his village of German-Russians. ... In some stories, the police clearly knew they were arresting innocent people. For example, an order reportedly arrived in Tashkent to 'Send 200 [prisoners]!' The local NKVD was at its wits' end about who else to arrest, having exhausted all the obvious possibilities, until it learned that a band of 'gypsies' (Romany) had just camped in town. Police surrounded them and charged every male from seventeen to sixty with sabotage." In the city of Zherinka, "'Ivan Ivanovich' ... had his wife sew rubles [Soviet currency] into his coat because the NKVD was taking all the men in his town." (Thurston, Life and Terror in Stalin's Russia, 1934-1941 [New Haven: Yale University Press, 1996], pp. 79-80, 150.)

Nikolai Yezhov crushes the traitors in
a Soviet propaganda cartoon.
As the above examples suggest, the campaigns were further fuelled by the "denunciation quotas" established under the authority of Nikolai Yezhov, who took over as head of the NKVD in September 1936 and immediately widened the scope of secret-police persecutions. (Soviet citizens often referred to the Great Terror as the Yezhovshchina, "the times of Yezhov.") Relatives of those accused and arrested, including wives and children down to the age of twelve, were themselves often condemned under the "counter-terrorism" legislation: "Wives of enemies of the people" was one of four categories of those sentenced to execution or long prison terms. Women accounted for only a small minority of those executed and incarcerated on political grounds (perhaps 2 percent of the former and 5 percent of the latter). Conquest notes that "Women on the whole seem to have survived [incarceration] much better than men," although "in the mixed[-sex] camps, noncriminal [i.e., political-prisoner] women were frequently mass-raped by urkas [male criminals], or had to sell themselves for bread, or to get protection from camp officials.") But wives spared arrest or state-sanctioned murder nonetheless encountered extreme hardship. "For the wives ... life was very bad," writes Conquest. "... All reports agree that the women lost their jobs, their rooms, and their permits, had to sell possessions, and had to live on occasional work or on the few relatives who might help them. Ignorant of their husbands' fate, they faced a worsening future." (The Great Terror: A Reassessment, pp. 235, 264, 315)
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

julie


Very interesting read at Gendercide...

Case Study : Stalin's Purges


This sure is interesting. And the site too. Much to check over. Thanks.
Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

gwallan

#11
Jan 25, 2009, 10:00 PM Last Edit: Jan 25, 2009, 10:03 PM by gwallan


Very interesting read at Gendercide...

Case Study : Stalin's Purges


This sure is interesting. And the site too. Much to check over. Thanks.


I have referred you to gendercide before julie. Well worth the trouble. Not gender specific but it does skewer a number of things that have been portrayed by feminists as specifically oppression of women. The witch hunts which were most definitely not gendered would be one example.

Term folks may not have heard is "hydraulic despotism". It originally stems from the idea that controlling a water supply gives one power over those who need it.  It could equally be applied to other resources such as telecommunications or food.
In 95% of things 100% of people are alike. It's the other 5%, the bits that are different, that make us interesting. It's also the key to our existence, and future, as a species.

askance


So... back to the drawing board you reckon?




Why no - I think you achieved your objective.

After all the graphic pretty much says it all for you, right?

Lessee now, google search on holomodr yields

the wikipedia page first,

followed by a link to stormfront from 2005. On that stormfront thread are a series of comments charging the jews with responsibility for the death from starvation of millions of people. Amongst the academic lumiinaries cited in that thread is the upstanding Professor Kevin McDonald, whose work "The Culture of Critique" 1998 furthers a variety of jewish conspiracies including the 'US neocons are all jewish' and so on.

The fourth google entry is a link to eNationalist forums where a poster by the name of Saint Hitler has kindly posted a thread entitled " Holomodor-The Real Holocaust" (sound familiar). This board features such useful sections as 'jew watch'.  I am not linking to these threads here, use google.

I've already considered the links to the anglican clergy.
________________


So how about your opening line Julie. If you have gleaned some insight into the justification for anti-zionist views ( however it is that you define same), and are coming to understand such, based on stormfront, eNationalist, Williamson, and Kevin McDonald,  I'm very happy for you. And of course, questioning the Holocaust puts you in company with some interesting people.

Now as to your graphic contribution - is this original work, or have you acquired it somewhere. I do not see a cite for your source. (Oh, Isee an authorship signature - see below.)

The graphic mixes truth - food can be a weapon - with a lie - the Russian Bolsheviks were jewish. It continues by claiming that the Holmodor was a zionist murder spree. It closes by claiming that this is the real holocaust, the other one, by imputation is not 'real'. So Julie, where did the graphic come from, and please clarify in what way the Holocaust in Germany under Hitler is not 'real'.

In closing, the graphic cuts to the chase by implying that the jews are using food as a weapon in Gaza. What is the evidence for this please, and are you also prepared to charge Mubarak of Eygpt with this crime against humanity as well? Yunno for closing the rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza for the past three years?

I note that the graphic is claimed as being by Deesillustration.com. Wow, such really edgy stuff on offer there. Hmmmm . . .

Mumbai was caused by zionist insiders,

Obama is a product of Fascist World government

Rahm Emanuel and Obama have their zionist hooks into Washington,

Auschwitz and Treblinka were frauds

Alan Greenspan and the reserve are vampires controlling the money,

Ahhh, but why go on - he touches all the bases.

__________________
So, Julie, I would guess that you have accomplished what you wished, right?

Hmm, the graphic, the subject, the kink to the clergyman, all point to the same conclusion. It sure looks like the work of a poster that would be more comfortable hanging out at
stormfront, than someone that belongs at an MRA board.

Or is it all just a disturbing coincidence, and you are just doing "research"?





julie




Very interesting read at Gendercide...

Case Study : Stalin's Purges


This sure is interesting. And the site too. Much to check over. Thanks.


I have referred you to gendercide before julie. Well worth the trouble. Not gender specific but it does skewer a number of things that have been portrayed by feminists as specifically oppression of women. The witch hunts which were most definitely not gendered would be one example.


Oh! I am glad you refer again. There is so much knowledge and so many links. Sometimes you need to be reminded for it to sink in.  :greener: And to see the information used in conjunction with other information to put it all together.  


Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

askance




Very interesting read at Gendercide...

Case Study : Stalin's Purges


This sure is interesting. And the site too. Much to check over. Thanks.


I have referred you to gendercide before julie. Well worth the trouble. Not gender specific but it does skewer a number of things that have been portrayed by feminists as specifically oppression of women. The witch hunts which were most definitely not gendered would be one example.

Term folks may not have heard is "hydraulic despotism". It originally stems from the idea that controlling a water supply gives one power over those who need it.  It could equally be applied to other resources such as telecommunications or food.


Gwallan, Adam Jones is the real deal - a genuine researching academic with integrity - a great read.

Incidentally, wars have been fought over water for the entire history of mankind. Some of the fights over water were particularly intense in the history of the western United States, and the law on riparian rights over water is a history of fighting over resources.

Do you have a particular conflict in mind? Because I can think of several where the conflict over water is pretty marked.

Mk

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