Are fathers optional?

Started by Tigerman, Feb 25, 2009, 04:41 PM

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Tigerman

A very positive article by a brave lady who is sticking her head well above the parapets to get this important message out:-
Are fathers optional? - here is a brief extract:
Quote
Judging by their behavior, American women appear to think that fathers are optional. According to the recently published birth statistics (Births: Final Data for 2006), the proportion of births to unmarried women has reached 38.5%, the highest rate ever recorded.

... [T]he proportion changed relatively little during the years 1998-2002, but has since climbed sharply, reaching 38.5% compared with 34.0 in 2002. While the overwhelming majority of teenage births have long been nonmarital .., these proportions have risen very steeply for women aged 20 years and over. For example, among women aged 20-24 years, the proportion increased from 37% in 1990 to 58% in 2006. Similar increases are seen for other age groups ... The proportions of nonmarital births among population subgroups ranged widely: ... 26.6% for non-Hispanic white, 49.9% for Hispanic, ... and 70.7% for non-Hispanic black births.

  In other words, more than of white children, of Hispanic children, and almost of black children were born to mothers who did not feel that marriage was necessary. Since marriage reflects the commitment of mother and father to stay together permanently, it means that a large proportion of women chose to give birth without taking steps to make sure that the father would live with his child and be a permanent presence in his or her life.

Fathers are not optional, though. On almost every possible parameter of child well being, children with resident fathers are far better off than those with absentee fathers.

SIAM

Regarding fatherlessness, I wonder how many proponents of the "fathers are optional" belief are:-


  • mothers who deliberately live in denial that fathers don't matter to smother their regrets at the choices they made

  • children who grew up without a father who also live in denial saying their life is fine even though it isn't because they lacked a father



Not saying all children without a father grow up "bad" or "unhappy" but I bet a big proportion have been negatively affected by missing out on their father's influence, and of that proportion, another large proportion live in denial about this.

davis2ab


The reality is that money explains a large part of human behavior.

From a money perspective, a father living in the household truly is optional.

The mother gets child support or welfare regardless of whether she brings the father into the household (or allows him to stay).

In many instances, she gets more money. This is true if the father is poor.  This is also true if she has children by multiple fathers (or she gets support both from one father and a new husband or boyfriend -- she can get support from multiple men all at once).

By the way, some of this is not the result of choice. Some of this is by necessity. Some of these women are having trouble getting a man to marry them.  This would be particularly true with the older women facing their biological clocks. They are having difficulty getting married so they get knocked up by a man who really just wants a girlfriend (not a wife and not a child) possibly by  a man who just wants a one night stand.  They get their baby (and money). He gets screwed.

This illustrates why marriage strike alone is not enough.  Men also need to go on a strike against impregnating women. This of course is problematic because birth control for men is not good. This is particularly problematic for young men who do not want to get a vasectomy.

davis2ab


A friend has told me that he is going to get his son a vasectomy for his 18th birthday (he going to have his son's sperm frozen so his son can still have children -- but only by choice). I actually think this is a very idea in theory at least. There is always the problem of the freezer failing or the sperm deteriorating.

The Gonzman

The Male pill is the answer.

When you contemplate how much society would change with one, it is truly staggering.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

TheManOnTheStreet


The Male pill is the answer.

When you contemplate how much society would change with one, it is truly staggering.


Indeed.. the whole male/female reproductive rights (and responsibilities) dynamics would fip 180!  THEN!  We will see "if fathers are necessary"... wouldn't we.

TMOTS
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

CG9603

Well, I have noticed many women have the attitude that a man cannot parent the right way.  This kind of ties in with the attitude of where if a tree falls in the forest, the man will be "wrong" no matter what.  I'm willing to bet that several of these single moms had the attitude of "her being right" all the time, on all topics under the sun, so how could a man parent with a mate holding that attitude ?

I also think that some of these women are looking for the "wage slave," where the man has the responsibility of paying for whatever she decides to spend money upon. 

They made their beds, they can sleep in them. 

These women will go through their lives never knowing how things look from a male perspective any more than a man would know what a woman's daily experience is like -- except that these individuals would have the condescension to patronize the man regarding how he "felt."  If anything, it takes a man to teach another young man how to be masculine, whereas the woman would teach the son equality when it is convenient, and then chivalry when that is convenient.   

Sorry for the rambling digression.  I think fathers are not optional, its just that single motherhood is yet another example these individuals wanting it both ways.   
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-- General Dwight D.  Eisenhower. 

"Be bold and courageous.  When you look back on your life, you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did."
-- Unknown.

Mr. X


The Male pill is the answer.

When you contemplate how much society would change with one, it is truly staggering.


Ms. Octomom didn't seem to have any problem having a litter of kids and it didn't seem like there was a bunch of men bashing her door down to give her sperm. Plus we tax payers get to pay for her kids.

Sorry but all that will happen is women will pay for sperm, have kids then make the sperm donor pay the child support payments. Most women uphold the gorilla model for reproduction anyway in which all they want is 1% of the male population for sperm donation. The rest of us men could be sterile or dead for all they care. We serve no purpose to them other than to build buildings and lay roads.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

davis2ab


Yes, I think that is true, to an extent. If they can nail a man who is not part of that 1% for money and then dump him and screw a man who is part of that 1% they will do it.

However, if the man has the power to stop paying the bitch, if she starts screwing Mr. 1% rather than him, then she might not do it.

The point is that by forcing men to support with women without requiring the women to do anything for the man in return, the man loses all his bargaining power. The woman can shit on him, and now she usually does.

If men supported only women who were faithful and treated them well in all ways, then guess what more women would be faithful and treat more men well.

The women would treat the men well.

Guess what? With traditional marriage the men also have an incentive to treat the women well (and be faithful).

This serves the interests of everybody else reasonably well.

Child support and no fault marriage, etc. screws up everything.

The Gonzman



Sorry but all that will happen is women will pay for sperm, have kids then make the sperm donor pay the child support payments.


Oh, I am all for that.  Look what it has done for it in Britain.

That'll end "Octomoms" in a minute.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Cordell Walker

if fathers are optional, then  lawyers bondsmen, PO's and the clinic ARENT
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

wractor

As I've said before, American culture has made the Single Mom into a Folk Hero...especially in the black community.

If you remember, Dan Quayle was condemned for (rightly) predicting that the single mom archetype had disastrous repercussions as a whole...and what happened? Single mothers everywhere had a field day, proudly sportin bumper stickers reading "Thank You, Murphy Brown...from a Single Mother."

I wanted to make another sticker that read "HELLO...MURPHY BROWN DOES NOT EXIST!!! She's FICTIONAL!!! You have to do TWICE the work now that you've kicked out your kid's father..."

"If you're going through Hell...Keep Going."--Winston Churchill.
(Sites by KK: www.RockHerWorld.Net, www.Focusgroup.ning.com)

CG9603

#12
Feb 27, 2009, 06:56 PM Last Edit: Feb 28, 2009, 06:34 AM by CG9603
http://news.mensactivism.org/node/11857

I think that several of the responses on that thread are right on the point.  In particular, the first one. 

Quote
"Probably directly related to the rise in Narcissism and daughters of feminist who preach you don't need a man, forgetting that sex is about the only thing of any interest that most women have to offer as they are typical not compassionate, emotionally stable or nurturing anymore if ever. And of course since money and sperm is the only thing men offer, women can support themselves with work and child support."


Men are optional to women who are egotistical to care only enough for themselves, and who are arrogant and smug enough to think that they are better parents, more nurturing (overlooking the fact that they are totally incapable of perceiving feelings that are not expressed the way a woman would express them), etc., etc. More signs of a Woman being selfish and conceited and arrogant. 

They wonder why men won't marry them ? Here's a couple hints ladies: women like the ones this poster has described above aren't worth marrying!
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-- General Dwight D.  Eisenhower. 

"Be bold and courageous.  When you look back on your life, you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the ones you did."
-- Unknown.

Cordell Walker

I will say this
my father's role in my life  was much bigger in my mid teens to late twenties than it was as a child or adolescent
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

wractor

Right on, Cordell...I feel the same way...growing up I always though of my Dad as this weird combination of Tyrant and ATM (although, to his credit, he never punished us when it wasn't warranted)...but now, I think, DAMN, this guy's a HERO...raised 3 kids perfectly, had a great career (best artist in CT, in my opinion), never cheated or gave in to vice, sacrificed his own ambitions to make sure we were fed...My Mom's cool enough, but Dad had to pick up the family slack while she studied for her degree. I just thank God he's able to enjoy a good retirement now, he's earned it.
Best, K.K.
"If you're going through Hell...Keep Going."--Winston Churchill.
(Sites by KK: www.RockHerWorld.Net, www.Focusgroup.ning.com)

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