'Power' move by male students ruffles U. of C.

Started by scarbo, May 27, 2009, 02:42 PM

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scarbo

'Power' move by male students ruffles U. of C.

A group of University of Chicago students think it's time the campus focused more on its men.

A third-year student from Lake Bluff has formed Men in Power, a student organization that promises to help men get ahead professionally. But the group's emergence has been controversial, with some critics charging that its premise is misogynistic.

Others say it's about time men are championed, noting that recent job losses hit men harder and that women earn far more bachelor's and master's degrees than do men.

"It's an enormous disparity now," said Warren Farrell, author of "The Myth of Male Power" and former board member of the New York chapter of the National Organization for Women. He noted, among other things, an imbalance in government and private initiatives that advance the interests of women and girls.

Further, Farrell said, just because some men are doing well is hardly a reason not to applaud efforts to boost the careers of other men.

"It's like saying 'is it OK for the Yankees to keep recruiting new players because the Chicago Cubs have not won as often?' "

Steve Saltarelli, the president of Men in Power, wrote a satirical column in March in which he suggested forming such a group. "Anyone with an interest in both studying and learning from men in powerful positions, as well as issues involved with reverse sexism, may become a member of MiP," he wrote.

Shortly after the column ran, Saltarelli started getting e-mail messages from men eager to join.

"Mainly people are just excited about the idea that men can have a group as well," Saltarelli explained.

Sharlene Holly, associate dean of students and the director of student activities, said the University of Chicago has approximately nine women's advocacy groups on campus; this group would be the first male advocacy group.

Saltarelli said some 125 students -- including a few women -- have joined the group via its Facebook page. He said the group would host pre-professional groups in law, medicine and business, foster ties with alumni, bring in speakers to discuss masculinity and mentor local middle school students as part of its "Little Men in Power" program.

Holly said she expected to approve the organization's application this week. As a registered student organization, Men in Power could then apply for event funding. The group plans to hold its first event, a student panel discussion titled "Gender and Media: Trespassing the Taboo," on June 2.

Saltarelli, who plans to attend law school, said the emergence of Men in Power has angered some students, especially "people very set in their ways."

To be sure, its title attracts attention.

"The name implies some things that I don't love," said Liz Scoggin, a third-year student who joined the group a couple of weeks ago and now heads its outreach efforts. "I feel like it implies there aren't enough men in power or that kind of thing."

But Scoggin, who is close friends with Saltarelli, said she joined after learning more about the group's aims and after she felt assured that the organization would not pursue a sexist agenda.

Jessica Pan, president of Women in Business and a fourth-year student, questioned whether Men in Power's goals were being met by existing student groups.

"I'm not sure we really need another student organization that focuses on pre-professional development for men," Pan said, noting that, in just the area of business, there were five or six students groups that were gender-neutral.

Similarly, Ali Feenstra, a third-year student and a member of the Feminist Majority, questioned Men in Power's utility.

"It's like starting 'white men in business' -- there's not really any purpose," she said.

Fred Hayward, founder of Men's Rights Inc., would disagree.

Hayward, who is based in Sacramento, Calif., started his men's group in 1977. Then and now, he said, women have not paid enough attention to what it means to be a man in modern society.

Hayward said one of the biggest myths borne of the women's movement was that men like to help each other out.

"We are competing directly for access to women and jobs," he said.

The group's birth comes at a time when the recessionary ax has fallen especially hard on men. In April, the national unemployment rate for men was 10 percent compared with 7.6 percent for women, said Mark Perry, an economist at the University of Michigan in Flint.

That gap is an "all-time historical high," said Perry, who attributed it in part to a loss of jobs in male-dominated fields such as manufacturing and construction.

At the same time, he noted, women today hold about three out of the four jobs in education and health care -- both stable or expanding job fields.

Future employment is also an issue, some experts say. Since 1981, women have collected 135 for every 100 bachelor's degrees awarded to men, according to Mark Perry, an economist at the University of Michigan in Flint. The gap is even wider at the master's level, with women trumping men 150 to 100, he said.

Saltarelli hopes Men in Power will help more men get ahead while raising awareness of the male experience.

"If we have good men in our society, everyone benefits," he said.

[email protected]

Mr. X

Quote
"I'm not sure we really need another student organization that focuses on pre-professional development for men," Pan said, noting that, in just the area of business, there were five or six students groups that were gender-neutral.


Gotta love this. Gender neutral or just for women.

Quote
But Scoggin, who is close friends with Saltarelli, said she joined after learning more about the group's aims and after she felt assured that the organization would not pursue a sexist agenda.


You mean like almost ALL feminist studies?
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

devia

My daughter and I were talking about the uselessness of many B.A's. Her friend got into a highly competitive and quite costly communications program only to be making 30K as a camera person; another took women's studies and all she got was lesbianism, another majored in art history...useless useless useless etc.

I think the problem with universities is they spend much of their curriculum in useless subjects. Women's studies gets a lot of play here much there are vast numbers of useless majors.

Perhaps boys have figured it out that most of the courses are I'll say it again: Useless . Unless you're studying in the medical, computer, or engineering field I can't think of many things that university offers that is lucrative compared to tuition fees.


Mr. X


My daughter and I were talking about the uselessness of many B.A's. Her friend got into a highly competitive and quite costly communications program only to be making 30K as a camera person; another took women's studies and all she got was lesbianism, another majored in art history...useless useless useless etc.

I think the problem with universities is they spend much of their curriculum in useless subjects. Women's studies gets a lot of play here much there are vast numbers of useless majors.

Perhaps boys have figured it out that most of the courses are I'll say it again: Useless . Unless you're studying in the medical, computer, or engineering field I can't think of many things that university offers that is lucrative compared to tuition fees.


yeah I agree and maybe women need to be asking that question. "Why are my daughters getting useless degrees and why do the schools promote my daughter to get said degreess"? Why doesn't the school kick girls in the ass and get them to get useful degrees.

Then on top of it women then complain they make 70 cents to the dollar for men. I'm surprised they make that with all those stupid History of the Antartic or soap opera studies programs.

Why the slide for girls? Why are they let to get such degrees? Why aren't women fuming at this?

In my industry its 99.9% guys and .1% girls and its not cause we keep them out. They just don't show up, period. And a bunch of computer programs are harldy intimidating bullies. Women could make a lot of good cash but it requires 60 hour weeks, weekend work, over 100 hours during crunch time and little to no social life.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

TheManOnTheStreet

Jessica Pan, president of Women in Business and a fourth-year student, questioned whether Men in Power's goals were being met by existing student groups.

Of course she'd question it.  It dips into her area of preferential status!

"I'm not sure we really need another student organization that focuses on pre-professional development for men," Pan said, noting that, in just the area of business, there were five or six students groups that were gender-neutral.

The exact same thing could be said for her "women in business" group as well...  Or blacks, gays, or any other so-called "oppressed group".

Of course, that isn't what this womanist really means.  She prefers having a "special group" for women and the other groups for everyone else...

Similarly, Ali Feenstra, a third-year student and a member of the Feminist Majority, questioned Men in Power's utility.

"It's like starting 'white men in business' -- there's not really any purpose," she said.


Nope.  No sexism here!  She thinks that the world is already so male-centric that men need no assistance in preparing for the business world!  Why let a little thing like facts stand in the way of a good ideology, right!?

Bigots!

TMOTS
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

The Gonzman

My daughter earned a nursing degree, worked her way through a Master's in pediatric nursing, and now at 30 is a shift supervisor at the age of thirty over a staff that is almost half men, and almost all with more "time in service" than she.  Why?

She got the Master's degree.  She put in the hours.

Oh, and she was raised by a father who wouldn't put up with the "I'm a girl" excuse for slacking off.

Amazing how well women will act when they aren't allowed to get away with the ready-ad cultural excuses feminism tries to provide for them, and are given proper expectations of performance.

And somehow she manages home life with her husband well.  Go figure.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

CaptDMO


Jessica Pan, president of Women in Business and a fourth-year student, questioned whether Men in Power's goals were being met by existing student groups.

Of course she'd question it.  It dips into her area of preferential status!

Ooooo...lest we forget
Quote

(associate dean of students and the director of student activities, Sharlene)Holly said she expected to approve the organization's application this week. As a registered student organization, Men in Power could then apply for event funding.
Is "event funding" a zero-sum prospect at the University of Chicago?

scarbo

The comments under the article are priceless.

Lots of people in agreement with the idea, lots of understanding of men's issues.

Also lots of ignorance, "men rule the world", "women earn less for the same work", you know the drill.


All in all, good! to see this discussed seriously OUTSIDE an MRA message board!

Tony Ananda


>"Mainly people are just excited about the idea that men can have a group as well," Saltarelli explained.<

Indeed, the very idea is blood curdling.  And misogynist.

>"Gender and Media: Trespassing the Taboo," on June 2.<

I think he meant Transgressing the Taboo.  That would be more standard academe-speak.

>"It's like starting 'white men in business' -- there's not really any purpose," she said.<

Well, pretty soon, after the federal government collapses, someone could hang out a sign that said "Whites Only" and there would be no one there to enforce diversity.  If you don't like it you can't call the cops and social workers.  You would have to fight the white men yourselves, a task perhaps best left undone.

So too with this Men Only business.  Let them know that if they don't like it they have a fight on their hands.
When the going gets weird, the wierd turn pro.

Cordell Walker

this made me smile
"how can you kill women and children?"---private joker
"Easy, ya just dont lead em as much" ---Animal Mother

LSBeene

Here is what I posted:

Quote

There are a lot of people who seem to buy into the "wage gap" myth.  I understand that those who state it may honestly BELIEVE it to be so, because it has been repeated ad infinitum - but it's a myth.  Allow me to help out:

Here is a WOMEN's forum that debunks the myth:
http://www.iwf.org/iwfmedia/show/18729.html

Here is John Stossel from 20/20 on the subject:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scp7s3vqTpw

And here is Warren Farrel who used to be on the NY NOW (National Organization for Women) Board of directors:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtjaBQMog0Q

These are hardly misogynists nor fringe advocacy groups with an axe to grind.

The reason it persists is that it's a great political tool for advocacy groups using victim politics to advance their agenda.

---------------------------------

What needs to be emphasized is that as of this year almost 60% of graduates from U.S. colleges are WOMEN.  And still, as was mentioned in the article, there are numerous women's advocacy groups on the college - and they "can't see" why a men's group should be formed.

Notice they did not offer to disband THEIR groups or to become "gender neutral" - and that is telling in their mindset as to equality.

-----------------------------

When women were being failed by our education system a set of reports came out in the late 80's and early 90's that showed this.

Women's group, rightfully so, cried out that we needed to tailor our education to meet girls'/women's learning styles and for women's groups to be set up to help girls out.

Now that boys/men are falling behind it's a shattering and hateful attitude that "something is wrong with boys - why won't / can't they learn". 

If you ever think that feminist groups are about equality - just look at the reactions from the women's "equality" advocacy groups in this one article to their reaction to men forming a group to help men and boys in education.  It's not a helpful, nurturing, nor positive reaction - it's bigotry in "concerned" voice.

I hope I added to the discussion.

L. Steven Beene II
Alaska



I hope it gets posted and can't wait to see the reaction.

Steven
'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Mr. X

This article also exhibits the typical female attitude of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is 50% mine". Why would women have a say in this, men don't have a say in what goes on in feminist studies programs. This is what men have to break free from, this attitude that women have ANY say in what we do.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

scarbo

Feministing has their typical snarky take on this. http://www.feministing.com/archives/015708.html


Which makes me love it all the more! :love5:


Although, it will be interesting to see what it eventually evolves into. I think they're making a mistake letting women into the group, personally. They should start with men, cover the issues in a "safe space" (sorry, ladies, borrowing from your tactics) and then see if they want to include women later.

CaptDMO


They should start with men, cover the issues in a "safe space" (sorry, ladies, borrowing from your tactics) and then see if they want to include women later.

What's the practical difference between the term "safe space" whenever used by womans advocates,  and Private Club?
Other than an assumption of where "operational" finances come from of course. 

TheManOnTheStreet



They should start with men, cover the issues in a "safe space" (sorry, ladies, borrowing from your tactics) and then see if they want to include women later.

What's the practical difference between the term "safe space" whenever used by womans advocates,  and Private Club?
Other than an assumption of where "operational" finances come from of course. 


Because femikooks (who tend to use the term "safe place") are sneaky...

They have essentially made the term "private club" negative - two fold.  It implies that it's male and that it's exclusionary.  By saying "safe place"... who would argue?  How can one argue?  You know, 'cause women are so as-scared all of the time and must have a "safe place" away from those evil men!

TMOTS
The Man On The Street is on the street for a reason.......
_________________________________
It's not illegal to be male.....yet.

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