1000 Days Later: Confessions of a Recovering Romance Addict

[Galt]

<<The trick is not to stop falling in love, but to fall in love with your equal.>>

That's about it - and also to recognize that it's your equal.  The pot-bellied nurd may think that his equal is Heidi Klum, and the cashier at Walmart may think that Richard Gere is about her style.

Part of this is due to media representations today.  Many people are always looking for someone better, even if they are married.  Even "equally-matched" people both think that they can do better.

I think, though, that people also have to see reality w/ regard to romance.  Happily Ever After sounds great, and we all want that (or think we do), but the reality is that among the 50% of marriages that DON'T end in divorce, there are all sorts of things like "I'm staying because of the economic situation" or "Huh, why get divorced when I have a few things going on the side" or any number of other things.  That's just how the world works.  Romeo and Juliet are not the norm (and they died very young; I'd like to see their relationship after 10 or 20 years).

[Galt]

Here's something that may help women understand what young men are faced with, though:

I was bored one night, so I watched a documentary film on the background of various businesses.  One segment was about a huge, hot disco - with how they prepared for the night and the background etc.

So anyway ... they finally opened the doors and had bouncers to screen out the "undesirables".  Four people rolled up to the door at one point, two couples on a date.  I estimate they were all around 20 or so.

The bouncer actually told the two guys that they weren't dressed sharp enough, so they couldn't get in.  The women were hot looking, so he said they could go in.  And they did - without even looking backwards.

The film crew then asked the guys about it.  The one guy said - she's my girlfriend.  The other guy apparently had just met his date, so he didn't care all that much.  The guys just stood around for a while, not sure about what they should do.  I assume that the guy with the girlfriend would catch hell from her if he just left and didn't wait outside for a few hours for her (Girl: "I had to call my mother to pick me up, you jerk"; Boy: "I'm sorry dumpling, it won't happen again").  Disgusting.

That's NOT railing against young women - that's railing against two particularly jerky women who are fully taking advantage of the unequal power situation at that age.  And young boys are too unsure of themselves to slam her - meaning he should have instantly taken off and never talked to her again - when someone treats you like that.

[Matt]

I'd leave her there and go home. Seriously. In a heartbeat. I wouldn't care if I'd been with her for years. That's no way to treat someone. That kind of lack of respect is inexcusable, and I'd expect the same from any woman that I would do that to if the situation were reversed. Hell, I've been dumped over offenses less serious than that.

[Matt]

That was all excellent Galt.

With one exception, the truth is that the alpha person will more often then not take advantage of those beneath them regardless of age or sex. It's just human nature.

The trick is not to stop falling in love, but to fall in love with your equal. The problem is that both men and women are attracted to those that are not really availble to them. It sucks to look at someone with doe eyes and just be used by that person for both sexes, don't kid yourselves into thinking it doesn't happen to young attractive women too. We have a lineup of "one nighter bimbos" of that variety coming to visit my broke little studly boss at work weekly wishing they were something more then the joke of the day, but they're not.

I'd contend the trick is to realize what happens to you (biologically/psychologically) when you're falling for people, and learn to harness and control it, so that you can think and act rationally in those situations of implausibility.

[Galt]

Here are a couple more thoughts while I'm thinking about this:

1) Think twice and then three times if you think you are really lucking out if you get an extremely beautiful girlfriend.  There is a downside to them, and it is natural because they have men chasing after them left and right.  They seem to become very self-centered and demanding.  If there are exceptions, then there are - but don't rationalize.  That was my experience with the one ultra-babe I went out with.  And seeing other relationships like that.

2) Don't chase; maybe a bit in the beginning because men have to do that to get a relationship going.  But believe it or not, if she really has some interest in you, things will work out better (more equally) if you don't chase her.  If she drifts on, so what (see my comment about not taking things as seriously above), but you may be surprised - sometimes THEY chase.  The way to think about it is that they want someone they think is worth it - and sometimes chasing will make them think that it is unequal (i.e. that you aren't worthy of them in a sense).

So maybe I have to refine the way I am presenting these points - but take them as a rough draft.

[Galt]

<<I'd contend the trick is to realize what happens to you (biologically/psychologically) when you're falling for people, and learn to harness and control it, so that you can think and act rationally in those situations of implausibility.>>

That's an excellent point.  Maybe it's like boxing - if you launch after someone with uncontrolled fury, and the other guy is calm and even about applying the best techniques, you are going to lose all other things being equal.

[Galt]

<<Hell, I've been dumped over offenses less serious than that.>>

It sounds to me like that was just a pretext for the dumping.

If I think about it - women (who I was very interested in) have dumped me for the slightest infractions, but there have been other women (who I wasn't really interested in) who would have held on like warhorses no matter what I did.  So minor infractions are probably more of an excuse.

It's kind of like that old song, "He loves her, she loves someone else, and the one she loves is in love with someone else, and so it goes".

My apologies for mangling a J.Geils (?) song.

[Matt]

I'm waiting to hear some more women weigh in on this.  

[Galt]

<<I'm waiting to hear some more women weigh in on this.>>

So am I - we have to pry the information out of them.

[Galt]

Well, I'm off in a while to test out my new-found insights from this web site on a woman.  I'll have to see what happens when theory meets practice.  LOL

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

Here are a couple more thoughts while I'm thinking about this:

1) Think twice and then three times if you think you are really lucking out if you get an extremely beautiful girlfriend.  There is a downside to them, and it is natural because they have men chasing after them left and right.  They seem to become very self-centered and demanding.  If there are exceptions, then there are - but don't rationalize.  That was my experience with the one ultra-babe I went out with.  And seeing other relationships like that.

2) Don't chase; maybe a bit in the beginning because men have to do that to get a relationship going.  But believe it or not, if she really has some interest in you, things will work out better (more equally) if you don't chase her.  If she drifts on, so what (see my comment about not taking things as seriously above), but you may be surprised - sometimes THEY chase.  The way to think about it is that they want someone they think is worth it - and sometimes chasing will make them think that it is unequal (i.e. that you aren't worthy of them in a sense).

So maybe I have to refine the way I am presenting these points - but take them as a rough draft.

Great point Galt, and I can attest from experience that it is true.  I've noticed in some past relationships that started out with the girl chasing me, that when I became infatuated with her, and the behavior reversed a bit - the girl _rapidly_ started losing interest.  However, when I resumed my normal position of nonchalance suddenly her 'doubt' about the relationship would become much less.  Now whether or not this was simply to do with her own psychology - i.e. maybe too much interest on my part makes the relationship that much more _serious_ for her or something; I don't know.  At any rate it's a shame we need to play these games, but people will be people.

[Galt]

<<At any rate it's a shame we need to play these games, but people will be people.>>

I don't like game-playing either, but sometimes it's just human nature.  If someone cools off to you, then the appropriate response is to also leave it be a bit more.

I had one friend with a college girlfriend that said he had to either marry her or kill her.  I hope he was kidding (he was), but he DID get married to her.  So if you look at it in that light, maybe "game-playing" is just the give and take of relationships, and much healthier than an obsessive, flat-out thing.  I had the experience of one woman (who I did like initially) coming after me in pit-bull fashion (I think today we would call it "stalking"), and I can sympathize with women - men tend to do that more.

[Galt]

Mostly, though, I don't like game-playing because I was never very good at it.  I suppose that's the same with every field.  Maybe there should be a course for men on that.

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

Matt,

*I can accept the prospect of being alone for the rest of my life.*

Make that the hallmark of your being and you will have provided yourself with an entirely new perspective on life. You will have brought rational thought to your romantic endeavors, and will be able to evaluate whether the probable benefits of being with a person will outweigh the certain costs of courting them. You will have achieved the level of maturity and emotional stability required to make sound choices in love and, more importantly, in every other aspect of your life.

That's pretty profound.  I tell myself this all the time.  However, I know that being alone is not the  optimal situation as humans are gregarious creatures ontologically.  A pundit would say at this point that
perhaps an individual expressing this sentiment is not ready nor prepared for the commitment itself, never mind the (for lack of a better word) altruism and resolve it takes to make a relationship work.  What would you say to them?

[nebulousone]

1) Young men usually don't have what women find attractive in a lot of cases (money, experience with the world, stable career etc.), but young women are at the peak of their attraction in their 20s (i.e. their bodies and looks are the best they will ever be).

My (single) friend and I were just talking about this the other day.  The conversation started because we both sort of bumped into a very attractive man who was at least 10 yrs older than we are...likely mid-40's to 50.  After he passed we both looked at one another with that, "Holy shit, that guy was HOT" look.

She then commented about how funny it is that she's now finding "older men" attractive.  I told her that I thought it's because her desires are changing as she gets older.  She's still single, wants very badly to get married and have a family....younger, unstable men, regardless how good-looking they are, don't really fit the bill anymore.  She's not looking for random sex or dating, but a relationship, which probably explains why the older, more stable man caught her eye.  10 yrs ago she wouldn't have looked twice.  Shit, 5 years ago she probably wouldn't have looked twice.

As our conversation continued we discussed women and what men are attracted to.  We agreed that women in their 20's do look their best. However, as men mature it seems they don't necessarily look for that ideal anymore.  Don't get me wrong, they may desire to date that but we're talking about real relationships here, not just fucking.  I've noticed that many of my male friends' ideas of "the physical ideal" have changed as they've gotten older.  No more are they insistent upon the rail thin, big boobied woman (I call them lollipops), they now prefer women with some meat on their bones.  With real boobs (remember where I live, fake boobies are everywhere).  Women who look like women.

I shared with her my theory that men's ideals seem change right along with women's as they get older.  That possibly men (again, as they get older, I'm not talking about the 22 year old here) unconciously seek out a body type that tells them (instinctively) that she can reproduce, etc.  Women start looking for the stable, established man as they get older, men tend to appreciate a woman who looks like a woman instead of a teenaged girl.

I have kids hanging off of me and I haven't had enough coffee this morning.  Here's hoping this post makes sense as I don't have time to go back and re-read and re-write.