Just what has the men's movement accomplished anyway?

Started by Factory, Feb 16, 2010, 01:56 PM

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bluegrass

((((crickets chirping)))))

DrEx must be busy lining up all of those Scandanavian examples.....
"To such females, womanhood is more sacrosanct by a thousand times than the Virgin Mary to popes--and motherhood, that degree raised to astronomic power. They have eaten the legend about themselves and believe it; they live it; they require fealty of us all." -- Philip Wylie, Generation of Vipers

drex

http://homeport.tcs.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/kids99/sweden4.html

I cant find the detailed article at the moment I remember seeing and posting in the past on another forum that showed the statistics..

But the point was, fathers who are seperated in scandinavian countries dont have so many problems with access as other western fathers.

My brother lived In norway for a while and the norwegians dont understand how fathers can have a problem seeing therir kids, when from their experience, they are being pressurised to spend more time with their kids, because the state wants to have both parents working and sharing child raising pretty equally..

The basic UK state attitude is that the most important role of fathers is to pay money.. Whereas the scandinavians see child support as being actual time spent dealing with your kids.. Not merely paying cash out..

Not tonight josephine..

drex

One has to bear in mind that in the scandinavian countries children spend a lot more time in state provided child care etc than elsewhere in the west. There are cultural differences..

One can see a lack of scandinavian MRA's, I would suggest that what I have stated may be the reason, fathers dont have anything like the same problems with access and custody etc..

Not tonight josephine..

bluegrass


http://homeport.tcs.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/kids99/sweden4.html

I cant find the detailed article at the moment I remember seeing and posting in the past on another forum that showed the statistics..

But the point was, fathers who are seperated in scandinavian countries dont have so many problems with access as other western fathers.

My brother lived In norway for a while and the norwegians dont understand how fathers can have a problem seeing therir kids, when from their experience, they are being pressurised to spend more time with their kids, because the state wants to have both parents working and sharing child raising pretty equally..

The basic UK state attitude is that the most important role of fathers is to pay money.. Whereas the scandinavians see child support as being actual time spent dealing with your kids.. Not merely paying cash out..




OK I read it and it sounds like the way that custody should be done.

However you made the claim that men don't "take up on it" even though they're supposedly even PAID to do so.

So anyway, still waiting.  Or maybe you'd like to pull back a little on a statement that was made somewhat in haste.
"To such females, womanhood is more sacrosanct by a thousand times than the Virgin Mary to popes--and motherhood, that degree raised to astronomic power. They have eaten the legend about themselves and believe it; they live it; they require fealty of us all." -- Philip Wylie, Generation of Vipers

drex





Why do you waste your own time and everyone elses making ridiculous and childish remarks and getting all worked up?

[You're regressing and reverting.]

You know where it got you on the antimisandry.com forum dont you babadog?

[Insinuate the fallacy innuendo drex, Haa-Hoo, FFFF, Pater Familias, or whatever alias you're currently using.] :occasion18:

Quit the trolling and show a bit of maturity, play the ball, not the man..

[Follow your own advice!]
:fart:

Tell you what, you get yourself on the meds you so desperately need first; before you end up making incoherent threats of violence such as always get you banned. And, no I don't like "folk" that threaten me physically, and if they do it on a forum like this, "sane"
people seek the intervention of admins.
You seem pretty paranoid, maybe you need to ask yourself who is need of state-prescribed dope.. Unlike yourself, I dont deny that I have used other ID's or operated on other forums.. The reason I have used other ID's is , in the cases you have mentioned there, because I was unable to use my main "drex" Id because I have been banned from forums and when I go back I have to use another id..

Stick to the issues, and try acting mature and honest, it will get you a lot further if yiu want to be taken seriously..


1) Your official diagnosis (disclosed by you on AM) is schizophrenia.

2) Nobody on this forum has questioned me as to my purpose in being here.

3) Several members here have confronted you about yours.

4) You are trying to pick up where you left off on AM; a forum I voluntarily left on
   8/2/09, under no coercion or duress whatsoever.

5) I will no longer make allowances for your psychiatric condition. Slander, insults and
   personal attacks will be answered.          
   :knob:

You are talking silly. What is your problem? Dont speculate about things you know nothing about.. You left AM because you were having a dicky fit aboutr some alleged consipracy agaoinst you by a few posters as I recall.. Basically, you did not like it when a few folk gave you a bit back of what you were dishing out.. Which was just silly comments basically.. Nothing to get so worked up about.. why dont you just leave it out and shut up obesssing about me and my mental health, sexual habits or whatever.. It really does not matter at the end of the day does it?
Not tonight josephine..

drex



http://homeport.tcs.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/kids99/sweden4.html

I cant find the detailed article at the moment I remember seeing and posting in the past on another forum that showed the statistics..

But the point was, fathers who are seperated in scandinavian countries dont have so many problems with access as other western fathers.

My brother lived In norway for a while and the norwegians dont understand how fathers can have a problem seeing therir kids, when from their experience, they are being pressurised to spend more time with their kids, because the state wants to have both parents working and sharing child raising pretty equally..

The basic UK state attitude is that the most important role of fathers is to pay money.. Whereas the scandinavians see child support as being actual time spent dealing with your kids.. Not merely paying cash out..




OK I read it and it sounds like the way that custody should be done.

However you made the claim that men don't "take up on it" even though they're supposedly even PAID to do so.

So anyway, still waiting.  Or maybe you'd like to pull back a little on a statement that was made somewhat in haste.


Not at all, that link was just a minor one I found. The article I was thinking of was actually rather long and detailed but did cxlearly state that fathers were not so keen to swap their free  time with time with their kids over a certain amount..

The interesting fact I gathered from it, is that no matter howmuch the state tries to pressure folk (men) to do what they would like them too, it seems that, on average, fathers want the standard alternate weekends with their kids, wherever you go..

I posted the article on antimisandry.com some years ago I think..
Not tonight josephine..

bluegrass




http://homeport.tcs.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/kids99/sweden4.html

I cant find the detailed article at the moment I remember seeing and posting in the past on another forum that showed the statistics..

But the point was, fathers who are seperated in scandinavian countries dont have so many problems with access as other western fathers.

My brother lived In norway for a while and the norwegians dont understand how fathers can have a problem seeing therir kids, when from their experience, they are being pressurised to spend more time with their kids, because the state wants to have both parents working and sharing child raising pretty equally..

The basic UK state attitude is that the most important role of fathers is to pay money.. Whereas the scandinavians see child support as being actual time spent dealing with your kids.. Not merely paying cash out..




OK I read it and it sounds like the way that custody should be done.

However you made the claim that men don't "take up on it" even though they're supposedly even PAID to do so.

So anyway, still waiting.  Or maybe you'd like to pull back a little on a statement that was made somewhat in haste.




The interesting fact I gathered from it, is that no matter howmuch the state tries to pressure folk (men) to do what they would like them too, it seems that, on average, fathers want the standard alternate weekends with their kids, wherever you go..




Considering the divorced dads I know -- many of whom actually pay MORE child support to see their kids more -- I don't think that's a "fact" at all.

Admittedly, I've only lurked here some lately so I'm not all that familiar with you, but I have to say that statements like the one above really have suspicious of your motives.

I mean, what you're basically saying is that it's your belief that one of the core tenets of what MRA stands for is complete BS.  Is that true?
"To such females, womanhood is more sacrosanct by a thousand times than the Virgin Mary to popes--and motherhood, that degree raised to astronomic power. They have eaten the legend about themselves and believe it; they live it; they require fealty of us all." -- Philip Wylie, Generation of Vipers

SIAM

Quote
The interesting fact I gathered from it, is that no matter howmuch the state tries to pressure folk (men) to do what they would like them too, it seems that, on average, fathers want the standard alternate weekends with their kids, wherever you go..


You heard it here first.  drex represents all men, and he has spoken.  

I think the men's rights movement was founded on the cornerstone of injustice to fathers.  If fathers had proper access and visitation rights (enforced), the MRM would likely be a HELL OF A LOT SMALLER than it is.  

So you are wrong when you say fathers are happy to see their kids once a fortnight.  I'm all for generalisations by the way when they are accurate.  The correct generalisation is this : most fathers would love to have meaningful, regular (as in at least shared) custody of their kids.  To say otherwise - this is actually a misandrist slur against men to say we don't want a proper relationship with our kids.  Would you subscribe to the belief that women are more loving to their children? I think that view is disturbing to say the least if that's the case.

dr e

Note to Drex and Captain -  Please take your personal squabbles to PM.  You are soiling an interesting thread.

On the suicide issue  --  There has been evidence that research money for suicide issues for boys and men is much more difficult to obtain than research money for girls and women.  Check out a part of this article:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-01-26/bay-area/17277257_1_adolescent-suicides-attempt-suicide-commit

Quote

So why aren't we asking what's wrong with a culture that drives boys, much more than girls, to take their own lives? Even in academia, where you can find studies on the most obscure topics, there is little research explaining why boys are disproportionately killing themselves. The Center for Adolescence at Stanford, a nationally recognized clearinghouse on teen behavior, has no one on its long roster of experts who can speak on the topic. Neither does the American Association of Suicidology, an organization dedicated to suicide prevention since 1968.

"As much as I would love to lead the charge (in finding out why boys kill themselves), try to go out and get funding for it," said Lanny Berman, the executive director of the association. He is frustrated that funders aren't interested in studying boys and men.

"If there is no research money available, no academician is going to go that route," he said. "As executive director, I have to pay attention to fundable projects."

So the association has an expert on female suicide but none on male suicide, even though suicide is an overwhelmingly male issue well beyond adolescence. Of the 30,622 Americans of all ages who took their own lives in 2001, 24,672 were men. I have been thinking about the people I know who committed suicide. My grandfather. My Uncle Tommy. Two of my of father's closest friends. And, most recently, the UC Davis freshman who is my friend's son. All men. I had never noticed.


This is clear evidence that our society ignores the pain of men while running and tending to any scratch that might befall women and girls.  Feminism is not the cause of this, they are simply the ones making bigoted requests for services which our idiotic legislators (most of whom are male) are more than happy to grant...plus 10% more than they ask so they can appear to be heroes like joe bigot biden.  Until we can break through this default discrimination that completely eludes the consciousness of almost everyone...we are in trouble.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Men's Rights Activist

#114
Feb 19, 2010, 06:22 AM Last Edit: Feb 19, 2010, 06:31 AM by Men's Rights Activist
Quote
On the suicide issue  --  There has been evidence that research money for suicide issues for boys and men is much more difficult to obtain than research money for girls and women.


Sex discrimination against males is hard to believe when you run into it in our societal institutions, especially when they're taxpayer funded.  When you encounter it, there really aren't good remedies in place if the discrimination is against males.  You're stunned, depressed, hurt, threatened, feeling helpless, and in a general state of disbelief, yet there it is, draped in all it's sanctimonious, Stalinist, gender feminist bigotry.

Let's make one thing perfectly clear, gender feminism is an ideology that's done nothing good for males, and that's not something based on any ideology.  It's based on lots of facts.:



Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Men's Rights Activist

Quote
What I DID say was that maybe, just maybe, men have benefited indirectly from some of the feminist victories.


Tell me PrarrieLark, do you also plan to go to the NAACP blog (if they have one), and tell them that you think maybe, just maybe, blacks have benefited indirectly from some of the KKK's victories? :dontknow:
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

drex





http://homeport.tcs.tulane.edu/~rouxbee/kids99/sweden4.html

I cant find the detailed article at the moment I remember seeing and posting in the past on another forum that showed the statistics..

But the point was, fathers who are seperated in scandinavian countries dont have so many problems with access as other western fathers.

My brother lived In norway for a while and the norwegians dont understand how fathers can have a problem seeing therir kids, when from their experience, they are being pressurised to spend more time with their kids, because the state wants to have both parents working and sharing child raising pretty equally..

The basic UK state attitude is that the most important role of fathers is to pay money.. Whereas the scandinavians see child support as being actual time spent dealing with your kids.. Not merely paying cash out..




OK I read it and it sounds like the way that custody should be done.

However you made the claim that men don't "take up on it" even though they're supposedly even PAID to do so.

So anyway, still waiting.  Or maybe you'd like to pull back a little on a statement that was made somewhat in haste.




The interesting fact I gathered from it, is that no matter howmuch the state tries to pressure folk (men) to do what they would like them too, it seems that, on average, fathers want the standard alternate weekends with their kids, wherever you go..




Considering the divorced dads I know -- many of whom actually pay MORE child support to see their kids more -- I don't think that's a "fact" at all.

Admittedly, I've only lurked here some lately so I'm not all that familiar with you, but I have to say that statements like the one above really have suspicious of your motives.

I mean, what you're basically saying is that it's your belief that one of the core tenets of what MRA stands for is complete BS.  Is that true?
Let us just say that there is a gulf bvetween what many MRA's think men want and what men actually do want..

And that is before we even get into to area of noting what men do compared to what they calim they are going to or wanting to do..
Not tonight josephine..

drex


Quote
The interesting fact I gathered from it, is that no matter howmuch the state tries to pressure folk (men) to do what they would like them too, it seems that, on average, fathers want the standard alternate weekends with their kids, wherever you go..


You heard it here first.  drex represents all men, and he has spoken.  

I think the men's rights movement was founded on the cornerstone of injustice to fathers.  If fathers had proper access and visitation rights (enforced), the MRM would likely be a HELL OF A LOT SMALLER than it is.  

So you are wrong when you say fathers are happy to see their kids once a fortnight.  I'm all for generalisations by the way when they are accurate.  The correct generalisation is this : most fathers would love to have meaningful, regular (as in at least shared) custody of their kids.  To say otherwise - this is actually a misandrist slur against men to say we don't want a proper relationship with our kids.  Would you subscribe to the belief that women are more loving to their children? I think that view is disturbing to say the least if that's the case.
You like to think that was the case woulkdnt you? But you only have to look at what men choose to do when they have the choice and you will see that most men do not want to do what the equal parenting types are suggesting, or perhaps it is the case that there are certain other things that they seem to prefer to be doing?
I wish what you were saying WAS the case, then we would not be looking so thin on the ground eh?

You only have to look at the facts and stats, the vast majoprity of men DO NOT complain about post seperation arrangements, despite the fact that most of them dont have anything like equal parenting arrangements..

If 40% of kids loosecontact with there dads within 2 yeras of seperation, perhaps we need to face the fact that not many dads give a shit, to be honest.. Which again, would explain the poor results for the Fathers campaigns..
Not tonight josephine..

mens_issues

Since learning about and joining the MRM in 2001, I've seen a gradual change in the acceptance of men's issues in the general population.  Not nearly as much as MRA's would like, but at least we're starting to send the message "Push against men too hard and we'll start to push back."
Men's Issues Online - a voice for men's advocacy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MensIssuesOnline

Follow Male Positive Media on Twitter - https://twitter.com/MalePositive

dr e

Quote
perhaps we need to face the fact that not many dads give a shit, to be honest.. Which again, would explain the poor results for the Fathers campaigns..


Prove it.  Sounds hateful to men in my book.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

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