Just a thought...

Started by Mr. X, Mar 10, 2010, 09:24 PM

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Mr. X

I was driving home from work today and thinking about all those articles women and feminists write about men and women. Like the articles saying women are empowered for being single or are better at some thing or other or that women are oppressed.

And then I thought about how we men react and wondered how come we men don't simply write the same articles. Instead we men react to what women pump out waiting for women to say something nice about us. Instead why don't we men do the same thing and just start flooding the world with male positive articles.

Take the articles praising young women for being independent and single and therefore empowered. Why can't we men do the same thing and just write saying men are empowered and independent for being single? Why can't we men praise a lifestyle of xbox and living life as we wish? That being single or doing things we want to do are positives.

We men stand around snipping and quipping about every dumb article some woman writes praising women for opening a pickle jar by themselves. So why can't we do the same. Men praising men.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

scarbo

Agreed. We hand too much power to women by watching them write about us and then discussing what they said.

And then we say that women shouldn't have any commentary about men, shouldn't define men: let men define men!


Well, agreed -- let's do it! Let's us men define us men. Let us write about us!


And while we're at it, why don't we return that other favor, too: why don't we men write about women and muse about their lives, their station, what inherent flaws they should strive to overcome for the sake of all humanity.

Captain Courageous

We need more males to step up to the plate and write - period! Women writers are literally swamping them like a tsunami ... opinionated, self-absorbed women writers that is. It's like we simply abandoned the field to them.

dr e

Agreed there is a huge need for men to step up.  However, men are wired to compete with each other for women.  Ever hear the NFL complain about the super bowl or the NHL about the Stanley Cup?  No.  That is what they are competing to obtain and their focus is on winning and reaching their goal.  Women are wired to evaluate men and choose the one they want.  This process entails them criticising, evaluating, comparing etc.  They have it hard wired to do this and men have it hard wired to NOT do this.  If men complain about the goal they are immediately dubbed as losers.  Oh, he is just a woman hater.  Everyone here knows that ploy.  As soon as you talk about inequities between women and men some female is going to try to shame you as being a woman hater.  She is doing what she is wired to do, she is evaluating men.  The man complaining about women is going against his biological grain and against the cultural prohibition that men not complain about women and he will be punished for it.

This is a large part why we have such a hard time organizing, working together, or claiming we actually have needs.  It takes a very strong man to rebel against this programming.  That or it takes a very hurt and very demoralized man to rebel.   

Don't look for a groundswell of men to come forward anytime soon.   
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

AnubisRox


Agreed there is a huge need for men to step up.  However, men are wired to compete with each other for women.  Ever hear the NFL complain about the super bowl or the NHL about the Stanley Cup?  No.  That is what they are competing to obtain and their focus is on winning and reaching their goal.  Women are wired to evaluate men and choose the one they want.  This process entails them criticising, evaluating, comparing etc.  They have it hard wired to do this and men have it hard wired to NOT do this.  If men complain about the goal they are immediately dubbed as losers.  Oh, he is just a woman hater.  Everyone here knows that ploy.  As soon as you talk about inequities between women and men some female is going to try to shame you as being a woman hater.  She is doing what she is wired to do, she is evaluating men.  The man complaining about women is going against his biological grain and against the cultural prohibition that men not complain about women and he will be punished for it.

This is a large part why we have such a hard time organizing, working together, or claiming we actually have needs.  It takes a very strong man to rebel against this programming.  That or it takes a very hurt and very demoralized man to rebel.   

Don't look for a groundswell of men to come forward anytime soon.   


I disagree somewhat. Yes, men were wired to not complain about women or unfavorable circumstances because until recently (40 years or so) men's and women's worlds were separate and only came together at certain times (social events, marriage, etc). It wouldn't have made sense for either side to complain because it would have been out of ignorance anyway. Like the gardener complaining about the interior decorator's choice of wall color, if you get my drift.

Now, women's and men's lives intertwine each other and men's well being is sacrificed for women's benefit. With this social paradigm shift this will affect men's level of tolerance. I do agree that it won't be soon but I have faith that men will say "ENOUGH!" Not vocally, but by action and deciding to not go through the hoops. It will probably be after the early and pre-Boomer generations go.

Just my opinion.
ell she turned me into a NEWT!! A newt?! Er..., well I got better.

Men's Rights Activist

#5
Mar 11, 2010, 11:14 AM Last Edit: Mar 11, 2010, 11:17 AM by Men's Rights Activist
Quote
This process entails them criticising, evaluating, comparing etc.  They have it hard wired to do this and men have it hard wired to NOT do this.  If men complain about the goal they are immediately dubbed as losers.  Oh, he is just a woman hater.  Everyone here knows that ploy.  As soon as you talk about inequities between women and men some female is going to try to shame you as being a woman hater.


According to that reasoning, Saul Allinsky would have been considered a loser too, yet his rules for radicals involve a lot of complaining, shaming, ridiculing, etc.  I think it's good we complain, and complain loudly!  We need to do it more, IMO!  I for one am fed up with others trying to define us based on this and that former role model for men.  There is no rule or law written in stone, saying we have to comply with any previously established role model for men.  All definitions are off, IMO.  

Gender feminists started a gender war and if the dialogue is getting ugly with complaints and insults from males, then society just needs to get used to it.  This is what our politicians, law enforcement, judges, prosecutors, educators, etc. have wrought from 40 years of pandering to gender feminists.  They have sown the wind, let them reap the whirlwind of men's complaints without end, IMO!

Are gender feminists and their vile toadies getting men's messages yet, or do we need to complain still more loudly???





Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Captain Courageous

What is the title of Saul's book on rules for radicals? Would you recommend it as a must-read for other MRA's?

Mr. X


What is the title of Saul's book on rules for radicals? Would you recommend it as a must-read for other MRA's?


Its called "Rules for Radicals" by Sal Alinsky.

Yes I would recommend either reading it OR finding a synopsis of his tactics somewhere, which is the important part. Not so much to use these yourself since a lot are dishonest and underhanded tactics but to spot them when others do it to you. For example Alinksy is a big fan of name calling. He believes its purpose is to merely piss off your opponent so they come off looking bad. But its good to know what's being pulled against you and why.

Another tactic is to merely disagree even if you're wrong, the purpose of this is to set up a series of negative encounters for the other person so they think twice about saying what they want to say.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

Men's Rights Activist

Quote
What is the title of Saul's book on rules for radicals? Would you recommend it as a must-read for other MRA's?


There's a lot of stuff on the Net about Alinsky.

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

Did I mention a woman extended her middle finger, when she saw this sign at an International Woman's Day rally?



Isn't it highly ironic that gender feminists have made laws that would make such a message as this one a crime in a family setting, yet we still have free speech that allows us to express how corrupt gender femnists (men and women) are?  Gender feminism is, after all, a political ideology - first and foremost.
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Captain Courageous

Thanks for the link. WOW! I gotta get me a copy of this pronto.

Rules for Radicals

By Saul Alinsky - 1971

    Hillary Clinton's 1969 Political Science Thesis ("There is Only the Fight") refers to an earlier version of Alinsky's training manual. "In 1946," she wrote, "Alinsky's first book, Reveille for Radicals, was published."

See also Obama: Training an army of world servers

Soviet Education under Lenin Models U.S. Education for the New millennium

From Marx to Lenin, Gramsci & Alinsky


Conspiracies- Past & Present


Background information

"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." --Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son of Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky



Hillary, Obama and the Cult of Alinsky: "True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, Alinsky taught. They cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within. Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties.... Many leftists view Hillary as a sell-out because she claims to hold moderate views on some issues. However, Hillary is simply following Alinsky's counsel to do and say whatever it takes to gain power.

       "Barack Obama is also an Alinskyite.... Obama spent years teaching workshops on the Alinsky method. In 1985 he began a four-year stint as a community organizer in Chicago, working for an Alinskyite group called the Developing Communities Project.... Camouflage is key to Alinsky-style organizing. While trying to build coalitions of black churches in Chicago, Obama caught flak for not attending church himself. He became an instant churchgoer." (By Richard Poe, 11-27-07)


Opening page - Dedication




"Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer."

dr e


Quote
This process entails them criticising, evaluating, comparing etc.  They have it hard wired to do this and men have it hard wired to NOT do this.  If men complain about the goal they are immediately dubbed as losers.  Oh, he is just a woman hater.  Everyone here knows that ploy.  As soon as you talk about inequities between women and men some female is going to try to shame you as being a woman hater.


According to that reasoning, Saul Allinsky would have been considered a loser too, yet his rules for radicals involve a lot of complaining, shaming, ridiculing, etc.  


No, don't think so.  I don't remember any of Alinskys rules that suggest complaining.  lol  He was much sneakier than that.

1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."

2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.

3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."

7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."

8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."

12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.  In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

    "...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'

    "One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

dr e



Agreed there is a huge need for men to step up.  However, men are wired to compete with each other for women.  Ever hear the NFL complain about the super bowl or the NHL about the Stanley Cup?  No.  That is what they are competing to obtain and their focus is on winning and reaching their goal.  Women are wired to evaluate men and choose the one they want.  This process entails them criticising, evaluating, comparing etc.  They have it hard wired to do this and men have it hard wired to NOT do this.  If men complain about the goal they are immediately dubbed as losers.  Oh, he is just a woman hater.  Everyone here knows that ploy.  As soon as you talk about inequities between women and men some female is going to try to shame you as being a woman hater.  She is doing what she is wired to do, she is evaluating men.  The man complaining about women is going against his biological grain and against the cultural prohibition that men not complain about women and he will be punished for it.

This is a large part why we have such a hard time organizing, working together, or claiming we actually have needs.  It takes a very strong man to rebel against this programming.  That or it takes a very hurt and very demoralized man to rebel.   

Don't look for a groundswell of men to come forward anytime soon.   


I disagree somewhat. Yes, men were wired to not complain about women or unfavorable circumstances because until recently (40 years or so) men's and women's worlds were separate and only came together at certain times (social events, marriage, etc). It wouldn't have made sense for either side to complain because it would have been out of ignorance anyway. Like the gardener complaining about the interior decorator's choice of wall color, if you get my drift.

Now, women's and men's lives intertwine each other and men's well being is sacrificed for women's benefit. With this social paradigm shift this will affect men's level of tolerance. I do agree that it won't be soon but I have faith that men will say "ENOUGH!" Not vocally, but by action and deciding to not go through the hoops. It will probably be after the early and pre-Boomer generations go.

Just my opinion.


I think that men have always been sacrificing for women but it may have been a bit more camouflaged by rigid roles.  Now that we have been declared "equal" it becomes glaringly clear that this thing that is being called equal is pretty skewed.  Men continue to die for women and sacrifice just as they have done for thousands of years and even in today's environment where the inequality is staring us in the face, even now, men are still reticent.  FS.
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

Men's Rights Activist

#12
Mar 11, 2010, 05:27 PM Last Edit: Mar 11, 2010, 05:29 PM by Men's Rights Activist
Quote
No, don't think so.  I don't remember any of Alinskys rules that suggest complaining.  lol  He was much sneakier than that.


Alinsky said all of this (below), but isn't ever complaining?  Wow, I don't think so, and judging by all the protests I've seen on the streets in Los Angeles, what are they doing, "celebrating?"  The very nature of what Alinsky is saying is used in most street protests I've seen.  The very nature of street protesting is "complaint."  When I protest (complain), I tell my fellow protesters, "I'm petitioning my government for a redress of grievances in the court of public opinion." - 1st amendment right.  I'm not out their protesting, because I'm NOT complaining about the way males are treated.

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

Quote
8. "Keep the pressure on,  with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."


Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

Men's Rights Activist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grievance

"grievance -

2.  a cause of distress (as an unsatisfactory working condition) felt to afford reason for complaint or resistance"
Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

dr e


Quote
No, don't think so.  I don't remember any of Alinskys rules that suggest complaining.  lol  He was much sneakier than that.


Alinsky said all of this (below), but isn't ever complaining?  Wow, I don't think so, and judging by all the protests I've seen on the streets in Los Angeles, what are they doing, "celebrating?"  The very nature of what Alinsky is saying is used in most street protests I've seen.  The very nature of street protesting is "complaint."  When I protest (complain), I tell my fellow protesters, "I'm petitioning my government for a redress of grievances in the court of public opinion."  I'm not out their protesting, because I'm NOT complaining about the way males are treated.

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

Show me the part where he suggests people complain.  He doesn't.  He urges people to be subversives and inflammatory.  This is far from simply complaining.  Using Alinskys model assumes that someone already sees a need for change.  Men at this point simply don't see it.  A part of why they don't see it is that they are geared to not see it, especially for themselves.  If you have a way to get large groups of men animated and protesting I would be in great admiration of your accomplishment.  Our numbers are tiny and there is a reason for it.  

Quote
8. "Keep the pressure on,  with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."





Show me the part where he suggests people complain.  He doesn't.  He urges people to be subversives and inflammatory.  This is far from simply complaining.  Using Alinskys model assumes that someone already sees a need for change.  Men at this point simply don't see it.  A part of why they don't see it is that they are geared to not see it, especially for themselves.  If you have a way to get large groups of men animated and protesting I would be in great admiration of your accomplishment.  Our numbers are tiny and there is a reason for it. 
Contact dr e  Lifeboats for the ladies and children, icy waters for the men.  Women have rights and men have responsibilties.

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