America: The Day the Dream Died

[Cordell Walker]

The fuckers did it.

I unpledge allegiance to the United States.

it passed?

[The Gonzman]

The fuckers did it.

I unpledge allegiance to the United States.

it passed?

Yep.

I hate this country now.



Let it fucking burn.

[no2fembots]

http://www.marksteyn.com/

"Happy Dependence Day"

I am so sorry.

Yup, a new Alamo... Count me in! 

[Cordell Walker]

http://www.marksteyn.com/

"Happy Dependence Day"

I am so sorry.

Yup, a new Alamo... Count me in! 

what have we become bro
what have we become

[Carnivore]

Guys, I understand where you're comin' from, but don't let it eat at you. This isn't something new with Obamacare. The basic drawback of any democracy occurs when the electorate discovers it can vote to receive benefits from the treasury. This causes the inevitable fiscal collapse, which is where we are headed. We are all pretty much guilty of it to varying degrees - look at all the government subsidized benefits which we all take advantage of. In addition, we maintain a military budget and wars which are simply not sustainable.

Remember how we were told there was a budget surplus back in the Clinton years? It was a lie. The government's own numbers prove it was a lie. Check out the history of the national debt at the US Treasury's own web site. The debt has gone up every year since about 1958.

Pat Buchanan summed it up nicely on how deep we are in the hole:

Thus, if the U.S. Government on Oct. 1, 2008, had shut down the Pentagon and furloughed every soldier and civilian here and around the world, and announced that it would not send out a Social Security check for a full year to any of the 50 million retired and elderly, we would still be $160 billion short of balancing the budget. If you zeroed out federal benefits to veterans for a full year, that, added in, would bring us close.

So, had it not been Obamacare, it would have been something else. Had it not been the Democrats, it would have been the Republicans. The very few, more famous libertarian/Austrian school economists who DID predict the financial collapse of 2008 (and several downturns before that, like the dotcom bubble) are not painting a pretty picture of the USA's future. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a single nation in history that was able to pull itself out of a similar type of hole and ours is much deeper. But digging that hole has been done over many decades.

[Men's Rights Activist]

One can only wonder how much worse things will get for America and how soon that will be.

'2012' Trailer HD

[davis2ab]

The obstacles now in place to prevent any young man from starting and growing a busines are simply massive -- everything from numerous taxes to child support.  This health insurance burden will be just one more to add to the list.  Child support is huge.  Those starting a business sometimes go for months or even years without much positive cash flow and they must invest whatever they have in the business.  Obviously, child support requires diversion of the money. The same child would happily live with less within a marriage (and thrive later on the business built) is used to destroy the startup business. As I understand it, this health insurance thing is going to impose massive taxes.

Young people generally don't need insurance other than for catastrohic accidents. They generally don't get long term chronic illness. The health insurance is thus yet another transfer of wealth from the young to the old. I am increasingly old, but I realize that a health society requires a healthy younger generation.  We have for decades crapped on younger generations. We wll pay.

I haven't even touched on the issue of national bankruptcy and destruction of the dollar and beuracratic inefficiency, etc.

We will never learn. People when  empowered by freedom and low taxation provide for themselves very nicely.

Socialism is not the answer and never has been.

I think some of the comments above are dangerous.  We have theright to vent our spleen -- it is called free speech. Yeah, right.

This proably is the straw that lwil break the camel's back.

This is good I suppose. Things must crash so we can start the rebuilding process.

I don't want to go through the crash. It is time to definitely have a plan B available. 

[davis2ab]

What other group has been promised healthcare?

What about Veterans? Of course, there are huge horror stories about how bad that care can sometimes be.

Now, if your care is bad, instead of just moving to another doctor by one's free will, you will have to write your congressman or go through some kind of administrative hearing process or something?  What a blasted nightmare.

[no2fembots]

...but don't let it eat at you.

...That's funny stuff...Mr Carnivore!!! 

(Carnivore... eat at you... oh, never mind)

[scarbo]

Guys, I understand where you're comin' from, but don't let it eat at you. This isn't something new with Obamacare. The basic drawback of any democracy occurs when the electorate discovers it can vote to receive benefits from the treasury. This causes the inevitable fiscal collapse, which is where we are headed. We are all pretty much guilty of it to varying degrees - look at all the government subsidized benefits which we all take advantage of. In addition, we maintain a military budget and wars which are simply not sustainable.

Alexis de Toqueville said as much in his 1835 book "Democracy in America". And go to the Heritage Foundation's website (heritage.org) and look up their recent study on "Dependence on Government survey". Not a fun read at all.

Remember how we were told there was a budget surplus back in the Clinton years? It was a lie. The government's own numbers prove it was a lie. Check out the history of the national debt at the US Treasury's own web site. The debt has gone up every year since about 1958.

I think maybe there's some confusion about this. Yes, the national debt has never been "zero" since 1958 or whatever. I believe that the claim about "budget surplus" really meant FOR THAT YEAR, income exceeded outgo, and thus the national debt actually went down slightly.

A lot of people took that statement to mean something it didn't, but I didn't hear any Democrats trying to correct people, they obviously enjoyed the mistaken assumption.

[Mr. X]

Don McLean- American Pie (with Lyrics)

American Pie - The Day the Music Died

[Carnivore]

Remember how we were told there was a budget surplus back in the Clinton years? It was a lie. The government's own numbers prove it was a lie. Check out the history of the national debt at the US Treasury's own web site. The debt has gone up every year since about 1958.

I think maybe there's some confusion about this. Yes, the national debt has never been "zero" since 1958 or whatever. I believe that the claim about "budget surplus" really meant FOR THAT YEAR, income exceeded outgo, and thus the national debt actually went down slightly.

A lot of people took that statement to mean something it didn't, but I didn't hear any Democrats trying to correct people, they obviously enjoyed the mistaken assumption.

That's not correct. The debt NEVER went down nor did it stay the same in any years of the Clinton presidency. Again, from the Treasury's own numbers, the national debt to the penny for each year of the Clinton presidency and a year on either side. The debt increased EVERY year.
09/30/2002         6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001         5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000         5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999         5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998         5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997         5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996         5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995         4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994         4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993         4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992         4,064,620,655,521.66

What gets me is not so much that politicians lie - that's to be expected - but the heroic MSM, protector of our freedoms, vanguard of liberty, light shining in the darkness, didn't utter a sound, even though this info was (and is) readily available.

[duckman]

I sit here on my 160 acres and enjoy as much "freedom" as is possible in canukistan...although I know it's an illusion. I always had you guys to look to to know that freedom was always close at hand. To the west, Alaska. To the south, Washington state. Maybe not total freedom but far, far more liberty than I have here. My bro and I could look at our firearms and know that if we were to strap them on and walk out the door, we would be hunted criminals...but not if we were just a stone's throw away to the west.

My dream of true liberty has died today.   My heartfelt condolences go out to each and every liberty-loving American.

[Mr. X]

Remember how we were told there was a budget surplus back in the Clinton years? It was a lie. The government's own numbers prove it was a lie. Check out the history of the national debt at the US Treasury's own web site. The debt has gone up every year since about 1958.

I think maybe there's some confusion about this. Yes, the national debt has never been "zero" since 1958 or whatever. I believe that the claim about "budget surplus" really meant FOR THAT YEAR, income exceeded outgo, and thus the national debt actually went down slightly.

A lot of people took that statement to mean something it didn't, but I didn't hear any Democrats trying to correct people, they obviously enjoyed the mistaken assumption.

That's not correct. The debt NEVER went down nor did it stay the same in any years of the Clinton presidency. Again, from the Treasury's own numbers, the national debt to the penny for each year of the Clinton presidency and a year on either side. The debt increased EVERY year.
09/30/2002         6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001         5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000         5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999         5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998         5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997         5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996         5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995         4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994         4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993         4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992         4,064,620,655,521.66

What gets me is not so much that politicians lie - that's to be expected - but the heroic MSM, protector of our freedoms, vanguard of liberty, light shining in the darkness, didn't utter a sound, even though this info was (and is) readily available.

I thought the claim was Clinton, for one quarter only, had a surplus on the budget (not on the national debt) and that was due to jacking up taxes while not increasing spending. This money quickly went POOF however.

In any event Clinton NEVER balanced the budget by reducing any costs. He just jacked up taxes.

[BRIAN]

Look at it this way: When taxes go up and the economy tanks because of this we will be one step closer to Atlas shrugging. Things will have to get worse before they get better.