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Started by Amber, Dec 12, 2003, 12:44 PM

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Amber

he men's movement is a hate movement.  

What feminism is to men; the men's rights movement is to women.

Men's rights activists blame misandry for all their problems in the same way that feminists blame the patriarchy.

The only thing men's rights activists are good at is abusing women.  

And you can quote me on that.  :D

closetrightyNYC

I like this essay.  And I also agree about the part with "men gaining as much experience as possible."  You wouldn't believe how many guys I've met who believe that no girl will ever want them, because they're virgins or haven't been with "enough girls to look good."  Trust me, I've dated the virgin, and I've also dated the guy who will put Peter in any pipe, and the first is a thousand times more appealing.  

I agree that it's good to wait until you've found "the one" before you get intimate.  Personally I didn't wait, and while I have some experiences I don't regret, there are some that I do, as I wasn't always an IWF non-feminist.  I don't see how meaningless sex is supposed to be so much better than committed sex--it makes literally no logical sense to me.  

I will note that the only thing that bugs me about the virgin-till-marriage thing is that I'm very private, and my parents' expectation that my first time will be around 11:30 p.m. on June 13, 2004, which it won't be :), just makes my sexuality so much more public and a target of family joking and comments than I would like.  For example, after a news story about teen pregnancy, my mom will be all, "Aren't you glad you and [my fiance] aren't at risk of that?" or after a movie sex scene they'll be like, "Now in 6 months you'll know how much fun that really is, but not yet ok? heh heh heh."  But that's just my own privacy hangup and their joking hangup--it has nothing to do with the general concept of being a virgin until marriage.  What bugs me is this concept of a "sexual initiation," and that as soon as you set a wedding date, the family gets all preoccupied with how your initiation is going to go and who's going to help prepare you for it.  Anyone else have families who do this?
acist, Sexist, Anti-Straight
Left-wing Freaks, Stop your Hate!

MortalMan

In the circles I keep (kept?) we considered 'damaged goods' to be in reference to a divorced guy (or sometimes gal).  :shock:

I prefer to think of myself as having been Tempered by the Fires of Relationship Hell  :twisted:

As for 'practice' at sexual prowess, I did most of my practice with one woman.

I had a couple of purely sexual relations after the divorce, but they felt hollow. So I gave up any sort of sexual relations until I find the right one.

I am not going to tell you how long I have been without now  :cry:
ember and Grand Poobah of Patriarchy Secret Society Lodge Local #303....

D

All those years I've wasted trying to get into women's panties.   Tragedey, pure tragedy.


:tongue:

nyet

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Amber said:
This notion dwindles sex into nothing but a mechanical act, in which two lovers provide nothing but mutual masturbation for each other. If this is what you want, hire a prostitute - male or female.


Quite the unnecessary expense if you know someone who wants to have a real good fuck for free, and it's someone you're attracted to, now isn't it?

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If you ask any rational person to describe the time they had their best sex, very few will describe some wild, mechanical act that impressed them. Most will describe a time when they were with a person who they admired on an intellectual and moral level, and had an intimate, loving experience with.


Best sex ever? Definitely wasn't with someone I 'admired on an intellectual level'. It was one of those wild, screaming, uninhibited raw animal fucks that had me so damn excited I forgot to breathe.

Nice attempt at an ad hominem there, also. Very subtly calling everyone who disagrees, who liked the wild passionate (and honey, there is nothing mechanical about it) fucking 'irrational' by default.

Unfortunately it's just an assumption on your part. One you cannot back up with any kind of objective cite.

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Getting "good at" sex through multiple partners accomplishes one thing: it causes physical and emotional damage. It opens up a person to STDs, pregnancy, and emotional damage. It is not something that one toys around with. Sex is too good to be had with just anyone, especially for such bogus reasons as "getting good at it."


I guess you think that everyone who has "multiple partners" has no standards, no interest in reducing risk of disease, and no ability to use birth control?

Sex is so good that it seems ludicrous to deny to oneself for the sake of the expectation of a few members of society. And you've made yet another erroneous assumption, which is that everyone who has had multiple sexual partners will have sex with 'just anyone'. Most people who have multiple sexual partners are still selective about them. The list may be long and still distinguised, as it were.

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One also does not need to go on a string of dates with men or women to decide what characteristics in men or women that they like.


So you date someone because you enjoy spending time with them. Then maybe you find something that drives you absolutely crazy, and you stop dating. Or you don't, and the relationship becomes 'permanent'. Not everone sees it as you do, Amber, as a means to an end. Not everyone is a shark in the pool, circling the tired sturgeon until it's time to pounce and marry it.

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The time you spend dating should be spent deciding if that person has the type of values and virtues that you are looking for. If you are spending your time while on a date, in a confused stupor, trying to decide what you like: you are wasting your time. Dating is an evaluating process not a soul searching process.


Have you ever actually had a serious relationship? I mean, what exactly are your qualifications to tell people how to conduct their romantic lives?

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It is the modest women - the ones with little sexual experience - who remain unabashed romantics for men. This is entirely for this reason that it was socially held that a woman should be a virgin when married: so she will fully and unapologetically worship her husband.


Please. I love men, and I love their company, but worship? Since I view relationships as equal partnerships with a healthy level of mutal respect, I find that notion absurd.

You cannot respect someone who worships you.

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When men and women refrain from having sex in a sloppy manner, it automatically skyrockets the relationship between them.


Sex is part of healthy adult relationsihps. Lack of it leads to break ups and divorces.

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I in fact want to be regarded by my husband as his "property" - as his goods. The reason why those who are opposed to this are opposed to this is because it implies that a wife must be of a high caliber, somebody worthy of having, which most of them (mostly feminists) are not. In their malignant narcissism, they want to spread their damage unto the rest of women.


Well, you have a nice time being someone else's property. I will live my life as an independent person owned by no one, and be very happy that way. Just stop trying to spread your 'damage' unto me.


By the way, Amber, you seem to post on this topic a lot. Why do you spend so much time thinking about how much sex other people have?

Amber

he men's movement is a hate movement.  

What feminism is to men; the men's rights movement is to women.

Men's rights activists blame misandry for all their problems in the same way that feminists blame the patriarchy.

The only thing men's rights activists are good at is abusing women.  

And you can quote me on that.  :D

nyet

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Amber said:
It amazes me how often girls are insistent that they don't really want commitment-based sex, pure raw animal fucking is what they want!


I've been walking around this earth longer than you have, so I'll thank you not to get preachy.

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Here is a hint to women who believe this and men who still believe women can have "sex like men": they can't. These girls are being dishonest with themselves. Don't be surprised when, after buying their horseshit that they can fuck you then leave you, that they in fact end up wanting more out of you.


Maybe you want 'more' out of some guy, but you're not everyone, thankfully. You're also talking about people older and wiser than you are about their own lives as if they are children. You are one arrogant piece of work.

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I think moral relativism and the "equality" mantra about male-female relationships go hand in hand. The equality mantra, especially regarding male-female relationships makes me want to vomit. The sexes aren't equal. They never will be.


So, which sex is worth less?

As absurd as it may sound to you, quite a lot of people have relationships as equal  partners, neither one worth more or less than the other, and it works very well.

Of course, you have neither any academic knowledge nor real world knowledge on which to base your assumptions, do you?

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Anyway, the fundamental relationship should be a woman worshipping a man and a man putting a woman on a pedestal. That's because the man should be of a character *worth* worshipping; the woman should be *worth* worshipping. It places an emphasis on virtue and high quality individuals.


Mutual respect is far better than deifying a person as if they are perfect. The only result of worshipping someone is the disappointment one stifles every day at the knowledge that the other person isn't perfect. No one is. So, instead of lying to yourself and pretending they are, why not just respect each other for who you really are?

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What is this "equal" bullshit? You're going to look at each other as equal what ... equally capable of moral vacancy; equally capable of lacking any kind of substance; equally capable of regarding sex as nothing but a mechanical act?


As people equally deserving of respect and honesty. Other people, Amber, have no obligation to live up to your morals, nor did they ask you to foist those morals upon them. You'll notice that I am not telling you what you lack, so why are you sitting there as if you are in some position to judge me?

You are not.

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I don't think these people fundamentally know how to love or value a person. If they did, they would know what I mean by "worship."


You have no idea what capacity for love another person has. You're far too clouded by hatred and judgmentalism.

As for 'worship', the word is defined as:

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wor·ship    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (wűrshp)
n.

  1.
        1. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
        2. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
  2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
  3. often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.

 
 
If you want to 'worship' someone else, you go right ahead. But you need to stop judging everyone who does not live as you say they should.

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As I said, I believe moral relativism and the "equality" mantra go hand in hand. They have no morals or values, no fundamental character .. therefore nothing to worship, admire, or praise.


I know what you believe. You repeat it often enough.

You are still wrong, however. Some day you will realize that a person does not have to believe, think, talk, and walk exactly the same way you do for that person to have morals, value and character. Of course, if the behavior you demonstrate here is an indication of the kind of character you think a 'moral' person has, then I am glad to be nothing like you.

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It amazes me how detached from reality some peoples' minds are; how willing to lie to themselves just to fit an agenda; how much love, commitment and happiness they are willing to deny thenselves ... all for the leftist/feminist agenda they have so mindlessly accepted.


The problem is, Amber, none of what I've said here was in any way 'mindlessly' accepted. It's the present value of the things I have seen and done in the amount of time I have been a part of this world. The 'leftists' and the 'feminists' had nothing to do with it. I was raised by people who thought and believed and acted like you do, Amber. I was a miserable person then. It took me a long time to figure out that finding the course in life that made me happy didn't make me a bad person. I treat people respectfully and honestly. I am blunt when I need to be, and will defend myself viciously if I have reason to.

I hope some day you will understand that people who are different from you are not 'better' or 'worse' people than you are.

Amber

:blahblah:  :blahblah:

As I said, moral relativism and the "equality" mantra go hand in hand.

Notice how nyet automatically accuses me of wanting humans to be "perfect."  That's the usual smear moral relativists/leftists employ.  If you are a person with some type of moral standard (read:  a conservative person), you must be some type of neurotic perfectionist ... women who watch their weight must be anorexics; people who watch their health must by hypochondriacs etc.

Anyway, nyet, you revealed yourelf in and out in 2 short posts.  Complete and total typical moral relativist leftist.  I mean ... god.  Can we buy your type by the dozen now yet or what?
he men's movement is a hate movement.  

What feminism is to men; the men's rights movement is to women.

Men's rights activists blame misandry for all their problems in the same way that feminists blame the patriarchy.

The only thing men's rights activists are good at is abusing women.  

And you can quote me on that.  :D

nyet

I'm not a leftist, Amber. I am not a moral relativist either.

I do, however, think that you are far beyond what is necessary to be a person of good character.

I've not accused you of anything, but I wish that someone at Penn State had taught you to read for comprehension.

What I said whas that worship involves deification of another person, that is venerating them as if they are perfect. It also involves quashing the resentment one feels when realizing that this person they idolize is not, in fact, a deity.

I believe that worshipping a human being is a recipe for disaster, which is why I don't do that. If you find yourself happy and successful with such a lifestyle, then by all means, live as you will. I am certainly not going to tell you how to live your life.

I am going to ask you to do show me the same respect.

You don't remember who I am do you?

The only poster ever to be banned from Ms. Magazine solely for being capable of rational thought. That give you a hint?

Amber

Come on nyet ... tell us who you were at shethinks and/or MS.  Or, for that matter, how long you've been lurking this group of posters!
he men's movement is a hate movement.  

What feminism is to men; the men's rights movement is to women.

Men's rights activists blame misandry for all their problems in the same way that feminists blame the patriarchy.

The only thing men's rights activists are good at is abusing women.  

And you can quote me on that.  :D

Amber

he men's movement is a hate movement.  

What feminism is to men; the men's rights movement is to women.

Men's rights activists blame misandry for all their problems in the same way that feminists blame the patriarchy.

The only thing men's rights activists are good at is abusing women.  

And you can quote me on that.  :D

closetrightyNYC

Quote from: "Amber"
Come on nyet ... tell us who you were at shethinks and/or MS.  Or, for that matter, how long you've been lurking this group of posters!


I'm thinking Marta, but I'm not sure.  Or Member 2k.
acist, Sexist, Anti-Straight
Left-wing Freaks, Stop your Hate!

nebulousone

She reminds me of Shrew.  She's an engineer, she's into computers and she likes guns.  

I suppose that's a guess.  Sort of anyway.
i]Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.[/i]
~Abraham Lincoln

nyet

I have already told you that I was 'the only poster ever to be banned from Ms. Magazine solely for being capable of rational thought.'

As for how long I lurked here, I didn't lurk.

Your judgment comes in the fact that you seem to believe you are not only qualified to determine what is good for every person on the planet, but capable of doing so.

You are not.

You are one person, with one opinion. Whether you choose to believe so or not, there are many people who don't experience any 'damage' or 'baggage' and who are not 'sluts' and 'whores' because they date when they feel like it, and they have sex with whomever they choose.

You claim to be such a good conservative, yet you are guilty of the classical lefty mistake. Treating all people as if they are exactly the same, as if they came from a cookie cutter.

It didn't work for Stalin.
It didn't work for Castro.
It won't work for Amber.

And nebulousone has a good memory.

closetrightyNYC

Quote from: "nyet"

And nebulousone has a good memory.


so you are Shrew? :)

(I don't remember much about Shrew, but)
acist, Sexist, Anti-Straight
Left-wing Freaks, Stop your Hate!

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