A running list of MRA behavior

[Amber]

I was asked to "be specific" about what men's rights activists do that I loathe.  Frankly, I already have.  My work on it is easily available on the internet.  But, anyway, I'll start a running list of their behavior right here on this thread.  If you want to state what MRA "accomplishments" are too, then list them. [And I suppose trying to get me banned/killed will be one of them ... pffffft!   :laugh2:] I'll give you examples of what they do, the emails they send me, the articles they write, etc.  


Lalalalala <hummging a song> ... god, this is so easy ...

Here is my first example.

I was talking to a "men's rights activist."  One who has complimented me on having an "individual mind" in fact.  He told me what I thought of a guy who couldn't get health insurance as he needed surgery to prevent some disease from getting worse.  

Well I didn't tell him, but I think it is a guy who totally evaded responsiblity.  A guy who waited until the shit hit the fan, and then when wet in it said ... "GEE I SHOULD HAVE PLANNED AHEAD!"

Then he moaned to me, right away, that "were I a woman I could have gotten insurance."  Well, that may be true, but it's regardless.  It's wrong a woman gets it because of the corrupt law and it would be wrong for the guy too.  

Just one example of a "men's rights activist."  Basically a guy that goes, "Hey look, women are getting away with evading personal responsiblity so we want to too!"

[Amber]

Humming again .... here is another one ...

One guy emaild me once, in hateful response to one of my articles.  In the email he said to me that because feminism has put things in such favor of women "women aren't allowed to have any self interest" anymore.  Then in another email he also told me women's place is in "submission" to men.

Pffffft!!!  I took that to some of my Christian friends and asked them if women were supposed to be obedient, docile, completely submissive dolt-like wives.  They just laughed their asses off.

Typical behavior of a men's rights activist - he mostly considers female self interest not feminism to be the enemy.  And, a guy like this ... mostly, he is nothing but a tyrant.  I emaild him back and told him people who speak of altruism like that are tyrants - they don't speak of altruism for them but for other people.  This guy gets to blame feminism and try to justify it as reason for his own neurotic need.

[Amber]

Lalalalalalala ... here is more ...

Fred Reed wrote this article in response to that woman who wrote that article about men in their late 20s who won't marry.  He said this woman was a hateful woman and women like her, who had "chips" on their shoulder were running around all over the US - and that men need to get out and move to Europe.

Really.  A woman who wants men to marry women.  Ya, sounds like an angry evil feminist to me.  

It's very obvious what his beef is.  It's NOT the angry feminist, who are in fact turning girls into women with "chips" on their shoulders.  It's the CONSERVATIVE woman, who wants men to get married.  The fact is:  these men do not EVER want to get married.  They want to move to Europe, where marriage is basically dead, so they can just have access to women w/o bourgeois constraints.

It's funny the targets MRA pick.  It's not feminist women - for all intensive purposes, they AGREE WITH MOST FEMINIST PRINCIPLES.  It's the conservative women.

[Amber]

My arguments against the MRA are not baseless nor are they ad hominems.  In this case, it is calling a spade a spade.  Unlike them calling me a feminist apologist, my points against them are valid.  They have no justification for their attacks on me other than a) I am young or b) naive.  None of their attacks on me have anything to do with the content of my articles.  If they want to take me point by point, fine.  I'm not scared of clarity and truth - in fact, I love it.  It's spin and propaganda that frightens me, which is what they are full of.  Anyway, this is the thread where I will build my case agaisnt MRA.  Notice none of the threads at the MND forums attempt to bring up my *points*.  As I said, it is all irrelevant things like my age.  I am building a case here of what *points* the MRA make that make me make my charges against them.  Interestingly enough, while there are posters here who have posted recently, none of have touched this thread.

[Sir Jessy of Anti]

Humming again .... here is another one ...

One guy emaild me once, in hateful response to one of my articles.  In the email he said to me that because feminism has put things in such favor of women "women aren't allowed to have any self interest" anymore.  Then in another email he also told me women's place is in "submission" to men.

Pffffft!!!  I took that to some of my Christian friends and asked them if women were supposed to be obedient, docile, completely submissive dolt-like wives.  They just laughed their asses off.

Typical behavior of a men's rights activist - he mostly considers female self interest not feminism to be the enemy.  And, a guy like this ... mostly, he is nothing but a tyrant.  I emaild him back and told him people who speak of altruism like that are tyrants - they don't speak of altruism for them but for other people.  This guy gets to blame feminism and try to justify it as reason for his own neurotic need.

Completely agree, and this is something that should be pointed out more often by those of us in the men's movement.   I think it is very hard to categorize a social movement by anecdotes.  Multiple citations of anecdotes do not constitute what is considered to be evidence.

Fred Reed's beef with the article was that men were portrayed as shiftless and indolent if they decided not to marry in a broken system (emphasis mine) which basically is a losing value proposition for them.  Specifically with regards to Susan Reimer who he quoted, you can see for yourself what it was she said,

Other than a 29-inch waist and a full head of hair, there isn't much to recommend the twentysomething male...He is living an extended adolescence -- an adult-olescence -- and every immature, irresponsible, self-absorbed thing he does is reinforced by the latest issue of his favorite men's magazine."

Fred's article is here: http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

I'll be the first to say that Fred is un-PC and also an Ex-Pat.   He doesn't  like American women that much, and I know that other men seem to feel the same way.   He is an older guy and I would guess he is tired of having women bash men and at the same time demand that men enter into committments with them or be branded indolent.

As to some negative MRA behaviors/attitudes, well there is the standard fare (that I can think of currently):

-Victimism addiction
-Misogyny (some people are serious misogynists and proud of it)
-Reactionism
-Absurdity

As to some positive MRA behaviors:

-Critical thinking
-Desire to stop Injustice
-Desire to help children
-Acts for the traditional family model

Anyways, that's my input.

[LSBeene]

Since I have nothing against Amber, but I AM an "MRA" I will take the opposing point of view.  

First off, let me say that there are some wounded and angry people who are MRA's.  I don't agree with the misogyny, but I do rather understand it.  Let's be clear on what distinction I am making.  I am not defending it, but I understand it somewhat.  Many MRA's or people who claim to be MRAs have been really burned, at a very personal level, over a long period of time, by women.  It may have even been multiple times.  I know that there is hatred, and again I don't agree, but upon hearing their stories, I understand where it comes from.

Also, many people come to the forums to vent.  It is not possible to do so in most "real life" situations.  Saying to them "get a life" is silly.   In "real life" they cannot decry the wrongs done, they can do so here.  Telling them to "get a life" at the only place they can express themselves and find like-minded people is nonsequitor.  THIS is where they can talk about it, the other 90% of the time, they must keep it internalized.

That being said, MRAs DO serve a useful service when their energies are properly and positively directed.  MRAs have managed to set up a Status on Men's Rights Commision in NH.  We have gotten DV against men acknowledged by more people (though the situation still sux).  We have been able to educate each other on false date-rape stats, false-DV stats, miscarraiges of justice, and to be mutually supportive.  By letter writing, E-mailing, idea sharing, and sites like Glenns, AH, Men's Activism, and others I have found a lot of information and support I could not get in "real life".  

For me, as a falsely accused rapist, I have found the LIFE ALTERING consequences of telling "close friends" of what happened to me.  I would tell someone I knew and trusted and the "false" in "false allegations" was forgotten by the time this "friend" had shared my issue.  He or she may have meant well.  They really may have, but others would twist the words, pass on the juicy parts, and another few doors in my life would close.  Here on the internet I can have an Identity, but still not have the false allegations destroy my life.  I can support others who just had this happen.  Those who's feelings are still raw and who are bewildered.  I can help them heal and educate them.  I am making a positive difference.  I am not a victim, I am a survivor.  On a personal note, to me, God picked me up when I was broken.  He never left me, even when most others had.  I pass along that message too.

MRAs can be a positive influence.  There are bad apples, so be it.  I will defend the MRA position.  Ball's in your court.

Steven