"My Lie": Falsely accusing a father

Started by FP, Sep 26, 2010, 02:09 AM

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Men's Rights Activist

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Gonz, I think you are on to something. Often the best responses I get are after one or two people come in guns blazing...makes me look very reasonable and people are often more likely to listen to me.


It sounds like the good cop/bad cop scenario.

Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

K9


And how is getting in their faces here in this forum helping anything? Me saying disagree and me spewing for 3 paragraphs accomplishes the same thing. IN fact I would go one further in saying that getting in her face there would probably shut people off to anything I have to say.

I have been at this a long time... nearly 10 years. What I have learned works for me to get people who are not already agreeing with us interested  is empathy and quiet dialog. What gets people to shut off and call us extremists is "getting in their faces". Now you are welcome to do what works for you.


What is extreme about condemning violence (or murder or rape) instead of politely disagreeing as if you were at a cocktail party? She's talking about the destruction of innocent lives. Do you disagree with Hitler, Stalin, Mao? Or do you condemn them? I remember a post you made years ago about a man caught having sex with the family dog. You were quick to condemn him.
Your point about posting here on the board is well taken; you're not addressing the authoress here.

And you just remember this, li'l lady. Before you get into a battle of wits with me, you're dealing with an unarmed man.
Explaining misandry to a feminist is like explaining "wet" to a fish.

The Gonzman

Feminism worked because it played on people's empathy. I guess we haven't figured out what will work for us.


That works because "Boo-hoo-hoo, poor female victim" is seen sympathetically where "Boo-hoo-hoo, poor male victim" is seen as just a pussy.

And I suppose there is no logical reason for that, but it is what it is.  To change it, you'd have to first change society's perceptions, then use male sympathy tactics to change society again.  Both of which are generational labors.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Pacman7331


Gonz, I think you are on to something. Often the best responses I get are after one or two people come in guns blazing...makes me look very reasonable and people are often more likely to listen to me.


I don't think Bomb throwers are necessary. If you feel the need to throw a bomb - fine go for it. But they are not necessary and may be counterproductive. Reason is necessary - but our civilization seems to have abandon reason for passion.

While the woman is sort of confessing - she is still mired in her old patterns - and what she did was wicked.

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Do you disagree with Hitler, Stalin, Mao? Or do you condemn them? I remember a post you made years ago about a man caught having sex with the family dog. You were quick to condemn him.


I agree, she must be discredited.

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That works because "Boo-hoo-hoo, poor female victim" is seen sympathetically where "Boo-hoo-hoo, poor male victim" is seen as just a pussy.


Yes I think we should continue to use reason.

The Gonzman


I don't think Bomb throwers are necessary. If you feel the need to throw a bomb - fine go for it. But they are not necessary and may be counterproductive. Reason is necessary - but our civilization seems to have abandon reason for passion.


Betty Freidan wrote her modern feminist screed in he mid fifties, and by the late sixties "Women's Lib" was influencing society internationally.  So let's call it fifteen years. 

I'd ask what "sweet reason" has accomplished since our seminal breakthrough in 1995 - but, oh yeah, there was no seminal breakthrough, and we're struggling for crumbs by comparison, and not influencing society internationally.

And people wondered last month why Mike LaSalle was throwing in the towel with Men's News Daily... There'd be a lot more success stories in the alleged "Men's Movement" if people would only concern themselves that the guns were pointed at the enemy, rather than pointing them at each other because they have their thongs in a knot over whether the approved ammunition is being used.

Oh yeah, that's right again - we're still debating over whether we have an "enemy" or if that is too "extreme."
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

The Biscuit Queen

She does not see this reality..that men in prison are suffering a real hell and if there through no fault of their own due to false molestation charges will recieve even deadlier treatment.

Instead of slamming her, I would approach it by asking what she thinks the price the man pays. What she thinks saving a child will do if down the road it could all be taken away with another false allegation. Have her learn the horror a man goes through in prison and let her come to her own conclusion about her previous statement. Ask her to step in his shoes, which she has shown she is capable of with this very book.

She is meeting us halfway by even confessing these things and addressing the problems of false allegations. Are you so ready to cut off that hand which is offering a real opportunity to educate because she is not a perfect MRA?

She is not the enemy, it is feminist dogma. She is helping dispel some of that, whether she means to or not. 
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

The Gonzman

She is meeting us halfway by even confessing these things and addressing the problems of false allegations. Are you so ready to cut off that hand which is offering a real opportunity to educate because she is not a perfect MRA?


Question:  Is she trying to make amends?  Or just looking for absolution?

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She is not the enemy, it is feminist dogma. She is helping dispel some of that, whether she means to or not. 


I think she'd be a lot more effective to dispel that if she got frog-marched out in the perp-walk, and set to washing clothes for a few years in an orange jumpsuit.  Her or her witch-doctor shrink, I don't care who.

It will become unacceptable to make false allegations when there is punishment to be had as a deterrent.  As long as all we have is clucking, hand-wringing, navel-gazing and book deals, there is no downside for the person making the specious and malicious accusations.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Men's Rights Activist

Why would a society that conditions men to "Get tough or die" have any sympathy for men?  American society needs its slaves and can't risk (afford) having them liberated from the slavery of their disposable and servile roles. 

As Warren Farrell established in his Bible for the men's movement, "The Myth of Male Power," - men are the disposable sex.

I glanced at the book again, just the other day and "yep," "men are the disposable sex" is written right on the cover, or some close approximation of that.

Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness are fundamental rights for all (including males), & not contingent on gender feminist approval or denial. Consider my "Independence" from all tyrannical gender feminist ideology "Declared" - Here & Now!

LSBeene

That truly is a great distinction Gonzo:  Is she seeking absolution or making amends?

And therein is the difference between the two.

I DO applaud that, without coercion and I'm sure to some social exclusion from the "victims club" she decided to come clean.  That's not easy and she did it.  Is it enough?  No, and in that I'm also firm:  Since there is no deterent and there are no programs for this she's gotten off scot free.

A false accusation is akin to crying "fire" in a crowded theatre.  You may not have personally trampled the person who died, but you sure as hell caused it.

I've heard the "let's water it down" kind of thinking that "it's just a lie, are you going to imprison everyone who ever told a lie - haven't YOU lied" argument.

It fails to empathize and understand the full effect of a false accusation - which is "strange" because" the very reason to make such a "go for the throat" accusation is the devestating effects it has on the accused, and the victimhood lionization that happens to the accuser.

The man falsely accused, and this can be demonstrated, becomes a social, legal, (often) financial, and certainly political 2nd class citizen - and while it can be over come after YEARS of time passing, when it's vis a vis gender issues or another false accusation - he's toast.

This author needs not only to go to everyone she told she was molested and tell them what she did - but if anyone else confided in her that they lied and have not 'fessed up - she needs to drop a dime on them too.

I'm betting - to a degree of certainty, that if it were a man who knew men who were guilty of molestation, she'd sure as HELL want that man to speak up - either voluntarily, or by threat of legal peril.

Lastly,  I love how she excuses and "is friends with" the authors of a book that caused HUGE devastation in so many people's lives - but were a book to have been written that had imprisoned women, destroyed families, and estranged mothers from their children - she'd be singing a different tune.

She's sorry for her PART in what happened - let's be fair - but the "indoctrination" and "socialisation" she's talking about is still wide-spread and ongoing in many of the circles she still frequents - and let's face it - she'd rather others suffer, even in prison (you know ... REAL people ... those with vaginas) than "out" them and their efforts to dehumanize men, fathers, and anyone who stands in an woman's way when she's "upset".

She's sorry HER bigotry caused pain - but not enough to call her fellow Klan members racists in public.

Steven
'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

The Biscuit Queen

If she knew the allegation was false when she did it I would agree that this was not enough for anything. She thought she was telling the truth. That is why she wrote this book; to uncover the history of the recovered memory movement for the sham it was.

There is a big difference between blatently lying about something and being brainwashed (even self-brainwashed) into thinking it is the truth. The end result is the same, however, and an innocent person is villified/victimized. If we are going to talk motivation, we have to consider intent. If we are going to talk end result, then I suppose it does not matter.

I think was she did was very, very wrong, and I don't think she showed enough remorse in my mind to warrent this being an apology, given I have not read the book. That said, she is opening a door which none of us had thought to even knock on, and this door may lead to more exposure to the subject of false allegation.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

The Gonzman

I'll give it to "fair to middlin' as a start."

Watched one guy go through an accusation of physical and sexual abuse against his own daughters as part of a divorce.  He spent over two months in jail.  He was beaten, and I believe raped in there, but he doesn't talk about it.  He lost custody, he has PTSD, he lost his girlfriend at the time, and at least two others since.  He lost his job, and has been denied others.  Lost his house and car and savings.  After 9 years he is barely starting to rebuild, though his credit is shot.

His daughters have been raised by the bitch who falsely accused him.  She, of course, protests that she "never knew" and was "just a mother lion protecting her cubs" and all the usual crap.  No consequences for her, even though the oldest daughter has spilled the beans that she was pressured, coaxed, and coached.

The oldest daughter is, of course, treated by her mother, sister, and mother's family as a betrayer and backstabber.  Which has fucked that kid up.

That kind of lie is not a trivial crime.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

The Biscuit Queen

No, it is not. It sounds like the wife willingly and knowingly lied and created the symptoms of the lie in her children to punish the father. Not only is she guilty of ruining her ex-husband, but she also has committed child abuse on her own kids.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

The Gonzman

And the random, general, irresponsible lie is the flip side of it- if it was murder we'd be calling it "Depraved indifference."
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Virtue

This is from the article linked

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Would I allow an innocent man to sit in prison if it meant keeping children safe?

So would you make that choice?

I think so.


This bitch and every one like her does not deserve access to the communal oxygen.  Even after everything she has seen and experienced she is still willing to trade the lives and freedom of innocents for her own perception of safety.

ANYONE that can be proven to hold the same beliefs should have all their rights terminated at the very least.
Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done... now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says...

"Hey... not all men are 'like that.'"

FP


She is meeting us halfway by even confessing these things and addressing the problems of false allegations. Are you so ready to cut off that hand which is offering a real opportunity to educate because she is not a perfect MRA?


Question:  Is she trying to make amends?  Or just looking for absolution?

Quote
She is not the enemy, it is feminist dogma. She is helping dispel some of that, whether she means to or not. 


I think she'd be a lot more effective to dispel that if she got frog-marched out in the perp-walk, and set to washing clothes for a few years in an orange jumpsuit.  Her or her witch-doctor shrink, I don't care who.

It will become unacceptable to make false allegations when there is punishment to be had as a deterrent.  As long as all we have is clucking, hand-wringing, navel-gazing and book deals, there is no downside for the person making the specious and malicious accusations.


Look at the girl in Vancouver WA who lied about the acid attack on her face. Many think she's suffered enough without being charged for false reports etc.. On tv this weekend a local noted liberal Oregonian columnist's weekly editorial speech was about how charging this woman was going too far (even though she claimed it was a black woman who did it) since she was going to have to live with her lies. Oh, her poor self-esteem.  :rolle:

We will get more and more of these witch hunts until we punish all for lying about such issues.

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