Feminism v. Mensactivism

Started by kal147, Dec 18, 2003, 11:24 AM

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Amber, I usually stick up for you, but, lol, you are outta your mind on this one.  I will break it down.

1) I am not a socialist.  I do think some social programs are good, but a socialist state is not.  Which social programs, specifically would YOU dismantle?  And to be fair I should answer the same question: I would make welfare limited to a specific amount of time PERIOD.  I would hire MORE investigators to investigate fraud in the system and jail the offenders (lol, I don't have to run for office)
2) I don't hate marraige.  I am HAPPILY married.  I love my wife.  We even,  :shock:  dare I say it, GET ALONG :D .  What the men have stated and I have not seen you respond to is that marraige today is a rigged game.  It is.  Water is wet, the sky is blue, and today marraige has DANGERS to a man's livlihood, criminal record, and his mental health.  Lots of marraiges work (mine does), but about 1/2 fail.  And when they fail the MAN is in an unequal position.  And since it is WOMEN who (80%) leave marriages more, why are you even addressing MRAs on this.  We didn't creat the problem, we are just sick of it.
3) I don't hate chivalry! I rub my wife's feet, I cuddle with her tons, I am sexually generous, I hold her hand when we walk to the car (we have ice here in Nome Alaska), and many other chivalrous.  Maybe Amber you should address your own WANTS to find a man who is chivalrous.  That's great Amber, no seriously.  Genteel courting and romance make me all warm and fuzzy.  I am a hopeless sap.  But what I am noticing is that you are not seeing that forest for the trees.  A few men got burned and are AFRAID to be chivalrous as it COSTS THEM IN REAL LIFE TERMS.  However many men ARE chivalrous.  And many MRAs are too: look at the flirting and affection shown to some of our female guests here, or stories related about their lives, or Dave and Biscuit Queen from Men's Activism.  Bees vs. Swarm --- Trees vs. Forest?
4) PLAY THE VICTIM CARD!?  PLAY!? Ok Amber, I got an assignment for ya.  Go visit a PRISON and find a man who has been accused of rape who is a prisoner.  Get to know him.  Promise to write to him and support him emotionally.  I HAVE DONE ALL THAT.  We are talking here about real infringment on RIGHTS.  You really need to crack that cranium to the subject that women PLAY the victim while the men here have BEEN victims.  ME?  Screw that, I am a survivor.  HEAR ME FREAKING ROAR!  :twisted:
5) I am a strong believer in STANDARDS.  I hold myself to them all the time.  I demand accurate, factual, and unbiased research to back up my opinions.  Many of the men here are the same.  Sharing information, correcting each other, humbly asking for help on projects or info, and a willingness to be corrected.   Standards are great Amber, but we are in a country with DOUBLE standards in regards to women and men.  There is a privileged class all right, and men aint it.
6) Ok, I give ya the last one, partially.  There IS mysoginy on this board.  There is misandry on the fem boards.  I have stated why, on previous posts, many men here are angry.  Hell Amber, after what happened to me I SHOULD be full of anger.  But I found peace in God's hands and I realized that I was empowering my false accuser.  This sociopath who had probably not thought about me as a person or ever looked back with any form of regret.  And I wont be a victim again.  

And Erin ALSO advocated for MEN's shelters.  I would just drop that one Amber, she's openly derided the way the "women's" shelters are indoctrinating women as a hate movement and she has repeatedly called for men's shelters to be established.

I am a BIGGER Bulldog.  Sleek of coat, quick on my feet, loyal to my master (wife, lol  8)  ) and I will guard my house.  woof woof !!

'Watch our backs at home, we'll guard the wall over here. You can sleep safe tonight, we'll guard the door."

Isaiah 6:8
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

The Gonzman

Quote from: "Amber"
Here is the list of similarities in mra and feminists.

1.)  They are both socialists
2.)  They both hate marriage
3.)  They both hate chivalry
4.)  They both play the victim card
5.)  They both really don't like it when you hold them to standards
6.)  MRA is filled with misogyny; Feminists are filled with misandry.

You mention Erin Pizzey as an example of unbiased research for men's rights activism.  Erin did not advocate for men; Erin distinctly advocated for women and provided women's shelters to battered women.

I read an article by a MRA once that came out and said the split should be 50:50:  fathers should get primary custody of their children half the time and mothers the other half.  This is strikingly similar to feminists who say engineering professions should be 50:50 male to female.

Nice set of unsubstantiated opinions based on your subjective and bigoted perceptions.  Care to leaven them with a few supporting facts?

Didn't think so.  Thanks for playing.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the MEANEST son-of-a-bitch in the valley.


Once again Amber blows hot air and demonstrates her ignorance and naivete. She also clearly demonstrates how her arguments fail.

She  harps:

"Here is the list of similarities in mra and feminists.

1.) They are both socialists"

Another ad hominem, she characterizes a person (incorrectly), and  does not address the substance of redress sought by MRA's.

"2.) They both hate marriage"

Here Amber employs a fallacial straw man argument. For those here who don't know what a straw man argument is, it's an altered and weaker version of what somebody's real position is which is then used to defeat  the original statement/position. Here's a few examples:

  a) A civil rights activist claims that slavery is/was abominable and that blacks should never have been subject to.   Amber would counter and say "so you're saying blacks don't want to work".

             Now, a less obvious example...

  b) Congressman xxxx states that although North Korea's atomic weapons program is a threat to the United States he doesn't believe it prudent to start a war with them. Amber now twists his position to read "so your saying that that the U.S. should compromise our national defense."

If you read Amber's rhetoric, it's full of ad hominems and straw man fallacies. Here Amber states that MRA's ' "are against marriage". That's not the position of mens acxtivists. MRA's take the position that divorce laws are biased against men, and therefore, marriage is an unduly risky proposition for men that needs to be carefully considered before he ties the knot. That's a very different position than Amber's twisted and mutated straw man "MRA's are against marriage".

Ad hominems and straw man arguments are staples of feminist argument and diatribe. Perhaps she is not a feminist...but she would sure make a good one. Right Dan.

Then she goes on to make totally unsubstantiated claims, claims based upon her micro experience:

5.) They both really don't like it when you hold them to standards
6.) MRA is filled with misogyny;

These are unsubstantiated allegations which, not incidently, are also essentially meaningless. Who is the "they" she speaks of...a couple of fringe MRA  wannabees who sent her scurrilous missives. Secondly, there is nothing inherently misogonist about mens activism which I  already explained in the beginning of this thread.

Amber further erroneously argues:  

You mention Erin Pizzey as an example of unbiased research for men's rights activism. Erin did not advocate for men; Erin distinctly advocated for women and provided women's shelters to battered women.

Geez Amber wrong again...at least you're consistent. I offered Erin Pizzey solely for the purpose as an exemplar that gives mens' activism credibility. Furthermore, Erin DID and DOES advocate for men. See for yourself in my following thread.  [/quote]


Quote from: "Peter"

3. Corrupt judges. This is a hard one. The legal profession has got themselves well protected against malpractice. I have not heard about any case of a judge being punished for a bad judgement only for not following the correct procedures. Hammurabi's law was different.

The code of Hammurabi

5. If a judge try a case, reach a decision, and present his judgment in writing; if later error shall appear in his decision, and it be through his own fault, then he shall pay twelve times the fine set by him in the case, and he shall be publicly removed from the judge's bench, and never again shall he sit there to render judgement.

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