264.000 Say They Will Quit Military:DADT

Started by K9, Dec 05, 2010, 06:11 PM

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K9

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=235797

Story shows a copyright, so I won't bother pasting it here.

When the MSM talks of a military study that shows that the ranks favor repealing don't-ask-don't-tell, they don't tell you what this is going to do to the military.
I've always believed that queers shouldn't be persecuted. What they want to do in PRIVATE life is their business and should only answer to God. They need to stay in the closet, and just as with liberal hollywood actors, I will not patronize gay films or watch any tv with gay scenes.
Explaining misandry to a feminist is like explaining "wet" to a fish.

neoteny

"Therefore, to mitigate the threat to their power, the pathocrats must employ any and all methods of terror and exterminatory policies against individuals known for their patriotic feelings and military training; other, specific "indoctrination" activities such as those we have presented are also utilized."

Andrew M. Lobaczewski in POLITICAL PONEROLOGY -- A science on the nature of evil adjusted for political purposes
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

Captain Courageous

How many male homosexuals are also masochists? How many fantasize a noncom ordering them to perform fellatio and/or accept anal intercourse? How many like having another male ejaculate in their face, getting spanked, etc. Oh sure. they'll put their lives on the line for me ... until they get a better offer!

The Biscuit Queen

I don't think being gay makes you any less capable of being a loyal soldier. Identifying gay does not mean you are less of a person.  I do think it creates issues with intimate quarters which used to be solved by separating men and women. It is not fair to straight soldiers to be put in quarters with people who are potentially sexually attracted to them. Until they address this issue and come up with legitimate alternatives, I will opposed gays in combat positions. If there are quarters for them separately, or once through basic they are in private base housing, I see no issues.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Quentin0352


I don't think being gay makes you any less capable of being a loyal soldier. Identifying gay does not mean you are less of a person.  I do think it creates issues with intimate quarters which used to be solved by separating men and women. It is not fair to straight soldiers to be put in quarters with people who are potentially sexually attracted to them. Until they address this issue and come up with legitimate alternatives, I will opposed gays in combat positions. If there are quarters for them separately, or once through basic they are in private base housing, I see no issues.


Well put and pretty close to my feelings. Most do not understand that in the military you give up your constitutional rights so arguing to allow them in on that basis does not apply. Also if you look, the studies found that those serving in non-combat units don't care but the combat units where you have the shared quarters and ability for gays to have sex unlike the straits you find strong resistance to them. So the big problem is do you treat them like females and not allow them in combat units then? Do they get special quarters or something? Until THOSE issues are solved and they are treated equally as straits on the sexual front, I have to oppose open service with just the change in that they can not be outed by external sources under the DADT for now to prevent revenge outings of them.

User 0


I don't think being gay makes you any less capable of being a loyal soldier. Identifying gay does not mean you are less of a person.  I do think it creates issues with intimate quarters which used to be solved by separating men and women. It is not fair to straight soldiers to be put in quarters with people who are potentially sexually attracted to them. Until they address this issue and come up with legitimate alternatives, I will opposed gays in combat positions. If there are quarters for them separately, or once through basic they are in private base housing, I see no issues.


It isn't an issue of loyalty for combat troops.  It's an issue of clear thinking and decision making.  If Bruce has a thing for Jerry, and lets that influence his decisions to the detriment of others, he's a liability to the whole group.

See, you can't make seperate quarters for gays, because they will just screw each other.  If you're going to give them all private quarters...  shit, I'll be gay to have my own room, at least on paper.  While deployed, you have to have some decent rank to get your own quarters.  If I have to share this 9' x 9' room with another guy, but Bruce the Summer Breeze, who has been in half as long as I have, gets his own room because he enjoys pee-pees more than hoo-hoos... well, that will only sit well with the victim group it benefits, and no one else.  If it's ok for them to have a gay bordello, why seperate males and females? 

Mr. X


I don't think being gay makes you any less capable of being a loyal soldier. Identifying gay does not mean you are less of a person.  I do think it creates issues with intimate quarters which used to be solved by separating men and women. It is not fair to straight soldiers to be put in quarters with people who are potentially sexually attracted to them. Until they address this issue and come up with legitimate alternatives, I will opposed gays in combat positions. If there are quarters for them separately, or once through basic they are in private base housing, I see no issues.


I say take a look at a military that does have gays openly serving AND they have had combat experience and against the types of enemies we're fighting. Israel is such a military. Do a study on them. If its a non-issue with them or they implemented things we can adopt to rectify the problem then by all means do as they did.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

BRIAN

The major problem I see is that male homosexuals still have a high prevalence of AIDS/HIV. In the military in combat the blood supply for the hospitals comes from the soldiers. There is not always correct screening for blood products in the field. It would be a shame to get the medical care to survive a combat wound and find out you got a death sentence from blood given to you by a guy who had unprotected sex with an HIV carrier.
You may sleep soundly at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who seek to harm you.

Eviltwin

The Today Show unwittingly made an effective argument against gays in the military when they portrayed Wiki Leaker Pfc. Bradley Manning as "teased and harassed". If a person's experiences as a homosexual make him more likely to commit treason, it would be foolish to allow him to jeopardize the lives of his fellow soldiers.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704679204575646930668079628.html


Affirmative Action: The federal government takes your job away from you and gives it to a woman. Then she sneers at you because you are unemployed.

The Biscuit Queen

User0, you are stereotyping gays as people who will bang anything that happens to be the same sex as themselves. That is not true. It may be for some, but is also true for some straights as well.

Brian, good point.

Mr X, that is a good idea, if such data exists. I wonder if they have done any studies, or have just ignored any issues.
he Biscuit Queen
www.thebiscuitqueen.blogspot.com

There are always two extremes....the truth lies in the middle.

Mr. X


Mr X, that is a good idea, if such data exists. I wonder if they have done any studies, or have just ignored any issues.


I would think that's the logical approach. I wouldn't use Denmark's data because they have not been in any serious combat (unless you count them turning over all those muslims to Malokovich).

But Israel has been in intense combat with gays serving openly and against exactly the troops we engage.

BTW to homosexuals lefties out there - Israelis accept gays in their marriage. Palestinians won't allow gay marriage, gays to do anything and probably execute them. Just saying.
Feminists - "Verbally beating men like dumb animals or ignoring them is all we know and its not working."

davis2ab


Well, let's just say that homosexuality is an abomination.

The authority for this is God as per the Bible.

No society has ever prospered for long that openly condoned homosexuality, and I doubt any military will "prosper" that openly does either.

Some things are just wrong.  Those who have an urge to do wrong things shouldn't.

I am not for openly persecuting gays just like I am not for openly persecuting anybody who does wrong things (unless their wrongs infringe on another's rights). In other words, I am a libertarian. If somebody wants to shoot heroin or whatever else, I say leave them alone as long as they hurt only themselves.

Of course, they should be told that shooting heroin is a really bad idea, but if they persist they should be left alone.

The homosexual lifestyle is self destructive much like heroin even putting aside morality. Homosexuals get certain diseases in far greater numbers. They tend to die younger due to diseases and probably a variety of other factors also.

Corrupting the military with immorality is just a bad idea.  A military needs all the blessings it can get.  A truly effective military is much more than a collection of individuals each with various abilities and training.  It is a team. This much like a football team.  It doesn't need to be poisoned by immorality.  Real practical problems exist as others discuss.

The practical problems I think are very real.  I know women are the victims of sexual harassment. But, I actually was victimized last year and the consequences continue to this day.  There was the woman who I found repulsive who made her interest in me way too obvious. When I refused to fulfill her fantasy, she retaliated against me.

You are going to have that kind of thing going on with gays in the military. It is just going to happen. Same for women.

I see a compromise.  Much of the military is not really that "military."  They live and act much like civilians.

I would make a distinction.  Women and gays can serve in the "civilian" part of the military but not in the hardcore military -- actual combat units that live and fight together whether on land, sea, or even in the air.  Women I think are not the best "fighters" anyway. Sorry. But its true.  Some gay men I have no doubt are great fighters but .... as discussed above.

As for Israel, they certainly have some really great historical victories. They certainly did some real ass kicking for example in the 7 day war.  What? That was in the 1960s, right? I am not sure they have done that much real ass kicking recently since they have liberalized their military with women and gays. I don't think you can really count the prowess of their air force because it is based largely on U.S. equipment and training and at least recently their air force hasn't had much real opposition.

One more thought. Our society is largely feminized.  There is really no place where men are allowed to be masculine.  A young man who wants to prove that he is a man can go to the military. This is a right of passage -- marine boot camp, Navy seal training, Ranger training, etc.  A young man can "prove" that he is a man.   

The same is true for actual combat. A young man who fights for his country indisputably has proven his "manhood."

This is a large part of why men join the military, I think.

Yes, women are in the military now, but women don't do the real man stuff generally and don't threaten the real man thing as much.

If a young man joining the military runs the risk of being viewed as a potential "fag" they are going to stop joining.

If the military every has enough "fags" that it is viewed as a homosexual institution straight men will stop joining. Guaranteed.

I doubt we have enough "fags" to win wars. This is just a very bad idea IMOH.

I basically support don't ask don't tell. As long as the service member keeps it private, I say fine.

But, once he comes out of the closet in the military, I say bad idea. Really bad idea.

davis2ab


One more thought about the sexual harassment angle.

In the civilian world (or the "civilian" part of the military), the sexual dynamics between people sometimes plays a role.  One "employee" gets treated better than another because she is attractive or provides sexual favors or if not out right sexual conduct flirting behaviors or whatever.  This kind of thing is bad for the organization in several ways. Decisions are not made based on purely rational considerations, moral is damaged, etc. etc.

However, in a combat situation, the damage could be far more severe. Do we really want a situation where Tom is Ordered to charge the pill box instead of Bruce because the Officer in Charge "likes" Bruce?   These kinds of decisions if a military is to be successful in a real fight must be made purely on battle winning factors like who is the best shot, who runs the fastest, who can throw the hand grenade the furtherest and most accurately, who should be reserved for a bigger threat?  In this kind of situation, decisions are made which have the effect of determining who lives and dies. These decisions must be made to the extent humanly possible on proper factors. If soldiers ever come to believe that the decisions are being made on factors like who is sucking the Officer's dick or whatever, it is all over as far as having a cohesive professional fighting unit.  You know what? Even if the homosexual officer is trying his best not to allow that as a factor in his decision making, people are still going to impute to him those kinds of considerations. 

davis2ab


Location   Typical interpretation by religious conservatives   Typical interpretation by religious progressives & secularists
Genesis 19   Condemns all homosexual behavior.   Condemns raping of strangers for the purpose of humiliation.
Leviticus 18:22   Condemns all homosexual behavior.   Condemns gay ritual sex in a Pagan temple and/or males having sex in a woman's bed.
Leviticus 20:13   Condemns all homosexual behavior.   Condemns gay ritual sex in a temple and/or males having sex in a woman's bed.
Romans 1:26-27   Condemns all homosexual behavior as unnatural.   Describes a group of heterosexuals who, against their basic nature, engage in same-sex behavior during ritual orgies.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10   Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death. Once truly saved, homosexuals will become heterosexuals.   Male child molesters and the children they molest will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.*
1 Timothy 1:9-10   Condemns all homosexual behavior   Refers to child molesters and the children they molest.
Jude 1:7   Sexually active homosexuals will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.   Humans who have sex with other species will go to Hell, not Heaven, at death.


I don't claim to be a biblical scholar, but it seems to me that those who try to explain away the biblical condemnation of homosexuality are "stretching."

Quentin0352

BQ, actually User0's comments are correct on how quarters and etc are. If they are willing to allow gays to share rooms and the possability for them to have a relationship in quarters, it is not fair to the strait troops. It would be no different that mixed gender quarters since not every mixed gender pair would have a relationship anymore than gays would. That is one thing I find really hypocritical about gay advocates and liberals on average. They will point out that gay males wouldn't go after every other male they see wanting to have sex with them but they then claim strait males would. Now if gays are no different in their being picky about relationships and their restraints on their sexual drives or anything else, then they should either be wanting to have sex with everything that moves like they claim strait males are or strait males are just as picky as gays.

Either they do full integration or not. No special treatment just because you are gay or female or if there is special treatment, then add in restrictions and a slower path to things like promotion since you do not serve in combat, get special quaters and other treatment.

davis2ab, while I understand your opinion and where it comes from, by nature the military also has to be neutral on religious issues. I hate it is a social experiment for liberals constantly but I believe your argument is coming from the wrong direction on the issue.

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