Taking the Men's Movement in a New Direction

Started by PaulGuelph, Jan 16, 2011, 05:08 PM

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PaulGuelph

Jan 16, 2011, 05:08 PM Last Edit: Jan 16, 2011, 06:29 PM by PaulGuelph
Most people are tired of feminism, tired of gender issues and they hate radical feminists. I find it easy to attack feminism on Youtube and I meet little opposition.

What does this mean for MRAs?

1, Since people are sick of gender issues. (We can't drink from the same well that feminists have already poisoned.)

We cannot use the male counterpart to feminist terms such as 'Men's Movement', 'masculism', 'men's rights', 'men's issues' etc. These terms usually provoke fatigue and anger in the listener.  People are sick to death of feminism and if they start hearing the same stuff from the male side, they will be ready to scream!  :yikes:

'It's our turn to start complaining' does not capture the public imagination.

We have to re brand the Men's Movement as something totally different.  We need to invent all new terms that are not just echos of feminism.  They must sound male-positive rather than complaining or whining.  Even if we just invent new words for scratch, we must carve our own path.
Men's Movie Guide:  http://www.mensmovieguide.com   The Healing Tomb: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081N1X145

Captain Courageous

Absolutely! You've got my vote Paul.

Masculinist reminds me of old Ricardo Montalban commercials and is right up there with "The finest Corinthian leather" references. George Hamilton in "Zorro the Gay Blade" also comes to mind.

Somebody here or on one of the other forums used the term egalitarian. I think it fits quite well. It's in the dictionary and has been for a long time.

Instead of admonishing the fembos for pulling shit, we just have to point out that they are not being as truly egalitarian as they insist they are.

:MRm3:

mens_issues


Absolutely! You've got my vote Paul.

Masculinist reminds me of old Ricardo Montalban commercials and is right up there with "The finest Corinthian leather" references. George Hamilton in "Zorro the Gay Blade" also comes to mind.

Somebody here or on one of the other forums used the term egalitarian. I think it fits quite well. It's in the dictionary and has been for a long time.

Instead of admonishing the fembos for pulling shit, we just have to point out that they are not being as truly egalitarian as they insist they are.

:MRm3:

The term equalitarian has been used and is considered preferable to egalitarian, the former implying equality of opportunity and the latter equality of outcome.
Men's Issues Online - a voice for men's advocacy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MensIssuesOnline

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Captain Courageous

Instead of Manginas, we can refer dispassionately to "male submissives" ... note the use of the term "masculinist" by this one ...

http://genderrolereversal.blogspot.com/2010/07/mister-maid-masculinists-and-pouting.html

:MRm3:

.

The problem with the men's movement is not the direction, but the lack of movement.

neoteny

The problem with the men's movement is not the direction, but the lack of movement.

Indeed: it lacks the three major elements of a social movement.
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

outdoors


The problem with the men's movement is not the direction, but the lack of movement.


100% agreed

Captain Courageous

How many of us are isolates that are connected to other MRA's solely by the Internet? How many are comparative paupers? Disabled - physically, mentally or both?
:MRm3:

Before we start the usual finger-pointing, how about volunteering some stats? Sorry, but I can't expect a vet with no legs to jump through hoops, or a divorced guy in a rented room to be out fund-raising, or a guy that gets snowed in for the winter to be out giving talks. Let's sort out who is capable of doing what.

.

#8
Jan 17, 2011, 02:55 PM Last Edit: Jan 17, 2011, 03:12 PM by John Dias
How about volunteering some stats? Sorry, but I can't expect a vet with no legs to jump through hoops, or a divorced guy in a rented room to be out fund-raising, or a guy that gets snowed in for the winter to be out giving talks. Let's sort out who is capable of doing what.


Even if we had a big database which identified all of our supporters, and even if we knew their capabilities, there's no guarantee that they would be willing or have the time to do any task that would be asked of them.  Far better is to post the NEEDS that the movement has as a new thread in a special discussion board that is devoted to activism.  Would-be activists can then visit that board and show that they want to participate by posting a comment in the "Need thread" of their choice.  StandYourGround.com has one such board -- a board devoted to activism -- here:

Activism
http://standyourground.com/forums/index.php?board=17.0

So if you see a need for men's rights activism out there in the world, simply visit the above board and post a thread.  Entitle it, "Need for Activism:" followed by a short phrase that describes the need.  For example, "Need for Activism: Local support groups for fathers engaged in custody battles."  In the opening post of that thread, you would describe the problem (why the need exists), suggest a solution (how activists could fill the need), and call on activists to express their interest by posting a comment.  Simple.

Doing it this way will allow people to come out of the wood work on their own time, and they can self-identify while indicating their capabilities and simultaneously expressing their willingness to fill a particular need.  In this way we don't necessarily have to spend time compiling a massive list of supporters and their capabilities, as that would be too arduous of a responsibility to put on any one person's shoulders.

I'll offer my prediction, though...  Even if there was a list of needs and even if we all agreed on the direness of those needs, most people who post on this board probably wouldn't step up and volunteer to do it.  In the MRM we've become too focused on commenting and opinionating in discussion threads.  The FRM (father's rights movement) is far more devoted to real-world activism than the MRM is.  I suggest that the reason for this is in large part due to an innate male tendency to lead (even solo) rather than congeal.  Dr. E described it well in another thread here:

I agree Galt.  Men's competitiveness with other men is a huge barrier to working together on men's issues. Men are genetically built to compete with other men in a hierarchical arrangement.  Couple that with the gynocentric nature of men to support women and you get a double whammy that sinks any men's rights organization quickly.  Those that do survive get attacked by other male competing groups.  Within each group you will see the male leader attacked by both outsiders ad by insiders.  It is little wonder that mrm groups are few and that they have not flourished.  They run a huge gauntlet.

Now look at female groups.  They get support from both men and women since women are seen as needy and deserving.  They also benefit from the assumption that women don't lie and are "pure."  Rather than compete with each other as the men do, women are genetically geared to cooperate primarily out of a need for safety.  They also lack the hierarchical nature of men and this helps greatly in their willingness to cooperate.

We are fooked. :bawl:


So what that probably leaves us with is the reality that if YOU see a need, don't just post a thread that indicates that the need exists, but rather YOU do something about it and lead by example.  After you've actually done something, you can even follow my advice above and post a "Need thread" in the Activism board that invites others to assist or imitate what you have done.  That will inspire other men -- even men who are challenged in their means or abilities -- to somehow take up the flag of men's rights activism in whatever way they can, because your leadership inspired them to do so.

Captain Courageous


Most people are tired of feminism, tired of gender issues and they hate radical feminists. I find it easy to attack feminism on Youtube and I meet little opposition.

What does this mean for MRAs?

1, Since people are sick of gender issues. (We can't drink from the same well that feminists have already poisoned.)

We cannot use the male counterpart to feminist terms such as 'Men's Movement', 'masculism', 'men's rights', 'men's issues' etc. These terms usually provoke fatigue and anger in the listener.  People are sick to death of feminism and if they start hearing the same stuff from the male side, they will be ready to scream!  :yikes:

'It's our turn to start complaining' does not capture the public imagination.

We have to re brand the Men's Movement as something totally different.  We need to invent all new terms that are not just echos of feminism.  They must sound male-positive rather than complaining or whining.  Even if we just invent new words for scratch, we must carve our own path.




Here's a video I think backs your suggestion:

http://www.youtube.com/v/95EH9G1c_4o?fs=1&hl=en_US

PaulGuelph

Quote
The problem with the men's movement is not the direction, but the lack of movement.


100% disagree

The point of my message was that we can get the Men's Movement moving by changing direction.

To sell our MRA message to the general public (and especially to men) we need to repackage it. It cannot be an echo of feminism, but must be something entirely new. This is the key to moving forward.

John Dias, I know the whole story of men not volunteering, but just posting on message boards. And there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. And when someone does volunteer, the fathers' & men's groups do not know what to do with a volunteer. And men are buying jet skis, but can't find $25 to donate to a men's group.  And you organize a protest and 7 people show up.  I have been around that block for 15 years.

If we say that men are inherently incapable of organizing etc that gets us nowhere.  (John Dias, I do not know if you are even in favour of MRAs and the Men's Movement or not, so I don't know if you are trying to help or not.)

I think it is our job as MRAs to inspire people to help, rather than blaming, shaming and then saying 'oh well we can't do any better, because we are just men.'
Men's Movie Guide:  http://www.mensmovieguide.com   The Healing Tomb: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081N1X145

.

Paul, I'm one of those guys who does the organizing, building and fundraising, FYI.

PaulGuelph

#12
Jan 18, 2011, 12:20 AM Last Edit: Jan 18, 2011, 12:23 AM by PaulGuelph
I was too harsh John Dias.  I am sorry.  I was just talking about some messages at SYG.
Men's Movie Guide:  http://www.mensmovieguide.com   The Healing Tomb: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081N1X145

.


I was too harsh John Dias.  I am sorry.  I was just talking about some messages at SYG.


No worries, Paul.  But let's get back to discussing your point.  I think that the main problem is that MRM activism is lethargic and too Web-based, whereas you think that although the MRM isn't "moving" enough this alone is not the main problem.  Okay then, it seems that what you're saying is that people would be more inclined to act if we reinvented our lexicon.  This too is an argument that I have seen being  made repeatedly on MRM forums over the years, and in my experience the people who are making it too often don't follow through and make even their own suggestion happen.  They just throw it out there as some sort of theory which they subsequently abandon to twist in the wind, their own idea neglected.  I've come to realize that the people who set the agenda are the movers, and these people also have quite a lot of sway over the lexicon anyway.  So if you see a need, fill it, then call others to follow; you'll establish your credibility that way as a leader, and over time you can inspire people to advance the cause using different terms.  If a journalist interviews anyone, he'll interview the leader anyway -- and it's at that time that the leader can articulate the message as he sees fit.  To get the ball rolling, one has to become that leader first, and that requires initiative.  This is all your idea; so where are you going with it?  The initiative should come from you, rather than collaboratively; this will establish you as the leader.  I would suggest that you make this case on your own blog, and have your blog posts republished on leading MRM message outlets.  Get the idea out there, and be the fountain of energy that advances it.  Do accept input, but don't advance this idea by committee because that would only dissipate your message.

DLove

John and Paul both have good constructive ideas. Please keep in mind most of us that have been active for 10 years or more have seen a slow but gradual change in male group think and the movement continues to build momentum albeit a modestly faster pace. In our impatience of wanting the changes now, for many that desire clouds the reality of the process of social movements and change. Four years after the U.S. passed the historic civil rights act of '64, the late great Martin Luther King uses a "prophetic" analogy akin to Moses' fate in his last speech the day before he was assassinated, "I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land". This has been true for  many of us in this movement that have passed on not yet realizing the dream of the end of anti-male legislation and feminism as practiced today. Be assured that the movement, despite the predictions of failure, of gloom, of sloth and inactivity by its members will move forward at a pace that cannot be measured by our own personal desire. It has and will continue to move forward.

DLove


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