The Roots of Racism

Started by neoteny, Apr 16, 2011, 08:47 AM

previous topic - next topic
Go Down

neoteny

A. Barton Hinkle | April 15, 2011

The Roots of Racism
Will we ever get beyond the notion of racial identity?

Quote
There is, to begin with, the notion of racial identity. Your garden-variety bigot is apt to argue that the differences between the races are not superficial but quite profound. He is apt to tell you each race possesses its own essential nature, its own culture and mores, and that for this reason it is best if each sticks to its own kind.

Some would call that backward. Others would call it progressive. Put a happy-face on the same sentiments and you have something like Somerville Place, a blacks-only residential floor at the University of Southern California. Says USC, "The goals of Somerville Place aim to foster an understanding of and respect for Black culture." Ahh, that. The bigot and USC might differ on whether black culture should be respected, but they agree it exists. Interesting.
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

Billy

I personally believe in racial identity and holding on to cultural differences. If we dispose of out cultural and national differences we will all be interbreeding and become one big melting pot.
Without the separation of Races or Nationalities there won't be any Asians one day nor will there be any Greeks or No Nordics, no Anglo Saxons, no Indians, no Black people, No Jews,et al.


Getting beyond the notion of racial identity is to mix everyone eventually.

I happen to enjoy the differences.

I think it would be a boring world if we all interbred and looked like India does today.
Shall we create worldwide caste system too?
Much of India was predominately White people long ago just like Iran was.

There is differences in the blood of races or else there would not be Racial specific Diseases.


The bible was specific about bringing forth fruit of it's own kind.
If the good lord wanted just one Race then he would have created only one race of people.

It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
~Thomas Jefferson


Men don't need women to fulfill themselves spiritually. They only need them to realize they don't need them.
~Henry Makow

neoteny

If the good lord wanted just one Race then he would have created only one race of people.


If the Good Lord didn't want the races to mix then He would have made them chromosomally incompatible, so they wouldn't have viable and/or fertile offsprings.
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

.

Quote
The bigot and USC might differ on whether black culture should be respected, but they agree it exists. Interesting.


What I find interesting is the statement above, taken from from the article that was quoted in the first post of this thread.  The statement assumes that the mere acknowledgement that cultural differences exist is itself a racist notion, and this notion I consider to be absurd.  I suppose the premise behind that reasoning is that once you recognise that a genuine cultural difference exists, then this leads to a valuation between differing cultures, valuing aspects of one culture more highly than another.  To the author, this is akin to valuing one race more highly than another, and as they say, "this will not do."

How can you value multiculturalism if you assume that cultural differences contravene the supposedly inclusive spirit of multiculturalism?  It seems incoherent to think this way, in my opinion.  I believe that culture is the real issue here, not race, even though there is often a significant overlap between race and a particular culture.  That is why when someone makes a statement which idealises aspects of one culture, or expresses distaste for aspects of another culture, this often gets misconstrued as racist and the politically incorrect statement then becomes squashed in the process (yet the idea behind the statement survives in the speaker's mind -- unable to be properly explored -- and therefore it often festers into genuine bigotry).

I, for one, find distasteful the relationship between a lack of empathy and wealthy liberal society.  That's a cultural critique to be sure, and yet I think that it's a quite valid critique.  One moment the people in such a culture are consuming wine and brie and revelling in the trappings of high society; in the next moment, they're "atoning" for their self-indulgence and self-absorption by accusing common everyday people of being bigoted and close-minded.  It's projection, and the worst part is that the bigots are using the pretext of anti-bigotry to hide their own very real bigotry.  The power of an accusation of bigotry is very potent, however, and this reality provides the shield of plausible deniability to such self-loathing libertines.  They hate what they are -- most often they are upper-class white elitists -- and they atone for their self-hatred by broad-brushing everyone else.  Like I said, quite often the accusation of racism is merely a projection of the accuser's own feelings of racial bigotry.

neoteny


I, for one, find distasteful the relationship between a lack of empathy and wealthy liberal society.  That's a cultural critique to be sure, and yet I think that it's a quite valid critique.  One moment the people in such a culture are consuming wine and brie and revelling in the trappings of high society; in the next moment, they're "atoning" for their self-indulgence and self-absorption by accusing common everyday people of being bigoted and close-minded.  It's projection, and the worst part is that the bigots are using the pretext of anti-bigotry to hide their own very real bigotry.  The power of an accusation of bigotry is very potent, however, and this reality provides the shield of plausible deniability to such self-loathing libertines.  They hate what they are -- most often they are upper-class white elitists -- and they atone for their self-hatred by broad-brushing everyone else.  Like I said, quite often the accusation of racism is merely a projection of the accuser's own feelings of racial bigotry.


Well said.

For some, there might be an element of self-loathing; but for the most dangerous kind, it is just simply "there are rules for the great unwashed masses and none of those apply to us".
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

Billy


If the good lord wanted just one Race then he would have created only one race of people.


If the Good Lord didn't want the races to mix then He would have made them chromosomally incompatible, so they wouldn't have viable and/or fertile offsprings.

So telling his people to stick with their own isn't enough?
He shouldn't be able to trust his people to remain separate?

All throughout the old testament the Hebrews were chastised when they strayed outside their own people.
In one portion of the scripture they were even told to send their bastard(mixed blooded) children and wives away.
The Hebrew word for Bastard is mamzer. Its not what we are taught a bastard is.

mamzêr
mam-zare'
From an unused root mian. to alienate; a mongrel, that is, born of a Hebrew father and a heathen mother: - bastard.

Strange how many people today claim to be of this religion that began with the Hebrew but know so little about the ancient Hebrew customs and Laws passed down from Yhwh.



It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
~Thomas Jefferson


Men don't need women to fulfill themselves spiritually. They only need them to realize they don't need them.
~Henry Makow

neoteny


So telling his people to stick with their own isn't enough?
He shouldn't be able to trust his people to remain separate?


No, apparently not.

Quote
All throughout the old testament the Hebrews were chastised when they strayed outside their own people.
In one portion of the scripture they were even told to send their bastard(mixed blooded) children and wives away.


But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, [and] Hittites; 1 Kings 11:1

----

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31

----

3 And Elimelech Naomi's husband died; and she was left, and her two sons.

4 And they took them wives of the women of Moab; the name of the one [was] Orpah, and the name of the other Ruth: and they dwelled there about ten years. Ruth 1

----

And the children of Israel took [all] the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. Numbers 31:9

----

10 And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.

11 And this [is] the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.

12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which [is] in the land of Canaan.

13 And the whole congregation sent [some] to speak to the children of Benjamin that [were] in the rock Rimmon, and to call peaceably unto them.

14 And Benjamin came again at that time; and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not. Judges 21
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

Billy

Yes they did mix and they got chastised for it.

Solomons problems were directly related to foreign wives.





It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
~Thomas Jefferson


Men don't need women to fulfill themselves spiritually. They only need them to realize they don't need them.
~Henry Makow

DLove

As Arnold would say; ""What'choo talkin' 'bout, Willis?"

If we are to believe the good book - specifically the Old Testament, the race of man sprang from Noah's three sons: Ham, Shem and Japheth.

As Shem means "dusky," or the like, and Japheth "fair," it has been supposed that Ham meant, as is not improbable, "black." This is supported by the evidence of Hebrew and Arabic, in which the word chamam means "to be hot" and "to be black," the latter signification being derived from the former. All were Hebrew as sons of Abraham.

"Israel" is the name God gave to Jacob and became synonymous with the twelve tribes of Israel named after his twelve sons.

So miscegenation as it relates to early Judaism holds to the religious identity and not the ethnicity or color of ones' skin unless of course apples are oranges' and oranges' are apples.
 
That there has always been ethnic species of homo sapiens which have become extinct, absorbed or exterminated -  just as new ones have emerged makes us really no different than other species of mammals. To pretend that some have been around longer, are smarter or have more resilience than others seem to be the general group think now days but hey we keep evolving despite ourselves. There will always been men and women too, that like a little or a lot of pepper in their salt just as there will always be those that preach and practice against race mixing- even in this melting pot society.


DLove

Billy


As Arnold would say; ""What'choo talkin' 'bout, Willis?"

If we are to believe the good book - specifically the Old Testament, the race of man sprang from Noah's three sons: Ham, Shem and Japheth.

As Shem means "dusky," or the like, and Japheth "fair," it has been supposed that Ham meant, as is not improbable, "black." This is supported by the evidence of Hebrew and Arabic, in which the word chamam means "to be hot" and "to be black," the latter signification being derived from the former. All were Hebrew as sons of Abraham.

"Israel" is the name God gave to Jacob and became synonymous with the twelve tribes of Israel named after his twelve sons.

So miscegenation as it relates to early Judaism holds to the religious identity and not the ethnicity or color of ones' skin unless of course apples are oranges' and oranges' are apples.
 
That there has always been ethnic species of homo sapiens which have become extinct, absorbed or exterminated -  just as new ones have emerged makes us really no different than other species of mammals. To pretend that some have been around longer, are smarter or have more resilience than others seem to be the general group think now days but hey we keep evolving despite ourselves. There will always been men and women too, that like a little or a lot of pepper in their salt just as there will always be those that preach and practice against race mixing- even in this melting pot society.


DLove
Have you ever seen 3 boys turn out different races from the same parents?
It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
~Thomas Jefferson


Men don't need women to fulfill themselves spiritually. They only need them to realize they don't need them.
~Henry Makow

neoteny


Have you ever seen 3 boys turn out different races from the same parents?


That would depend on how many wives Noah had, now wouldn't it?

And if the three boys were of the same race, where did the other races came from?
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

CaptDMO

Re:USC
What, exactly, is "Black Culture" in (ie.) the U.S.
Why should ANYONE need to understand "respect it"?
Is it subject to correction, or assimilation?
Can someone stereotype it for me?
How much of it comes from (ie.)Mexico, or Central/South America, or US farms, or US cities?
How is it different than, say, The Constitution, as it now stands?
How exactly does it diverge from Truth, Justice, and the (all inclusive) American Way?
 

Billy



Have you ever seen 3 boys turn out different races from the same parents?


That would depend on how many wives Noah had, now wouldn't it?

And if the three boys were of the same race, where did the other races came from?

The bible says Noah had one wife.
It does not say she was their Mother.

The bible was clear in the beginning that everything had their seed within them and everything should multiple after it's kind.
That goes for races too.

When Ham did his sin against his Father, it was his son that was cursed and not Ham himself.
Ham had seen his fathers nakedness which meant, he invaded his Fathers personal property and slept with his wife while Noah was laid out drunk.
Obviously she was not Hams Mom.

Canaan was the by-product of a union with his stepMom and it appears Noah had taken a second wife from the race of Cain which cursed the son born to Ham and he was named after Cain, who was Canaan.
Cain was a cursed lineage and Canaan became cursed also.
Canaan moved North of Palistine and became a very evil and wicked people.
Esau bred with these people which was brought Grief to Esau's parents. They knew it was wrong for their children.


According to the book of Jasher(Spoken of in scripture twice), Adams seed was forbidden to procreate with Cains cursed lineage but eventually they fell with their fascination for these evil doers.
We are told Cains Daughters were the first prostitutes, first to wear cosmetics and Jewelry.
The sons were wild and murderous. They made the first metals and weapons of war.
This is why Noah was used to save a pure line of Adam. 



more to come on the other races.....
It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
~Thomas Jefferson


Men don't need women to fulfill themselves spiritually. They only need them to realize they don't need them.
~Henry Makow

neoteny


According to the book of Jasher(Spoken of in scripture twice), Adams seed was forbidden to procreate with Cains cursed lineage but eventually they fell with their fascination for these evil doers.
We are told Cains Daughters were the first prostitutes, first to wear cosmetics and Jewelry.
The sons were wild and murderous. They made the first metals and weapons of war.
This is why Noah was used to save a pure line of Adam. 


This sounds interesting. Where can one read more about this interpretation?
The spreading of information about the [quantum] system through the [classical] environment is ultimately responsible for the emergence of "objective reality." 

Wojciech Hubert Zurek: Decoherence, einselection, and the quantum origins of the classical

Billy

http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html

Jos 10:13  And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2Sa 1:18  (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

If this Jasher is the authentic version then it's a good read and very detailed work along with the original Torah.. (First 5 books)
It gives many details the Torah omits.


I believe that is the source.
I've read the book of Enoch also.
But I did not believe it was the truth.
It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.
~Thomas Jefferson


Men don't need women to fulfill themselves spiritually. They only need them to realize they don't need them.
~Henry Makow

Go Up