Shattering the Mens rights movement

[Tigerman]

CaptDMO couldn't name one fucking thing I said wrong - you hosed down this forum with more total shit about AVFM than a cow with diaorhea. You finally produced a copy of the dialog that supposedly to back up all your paranoid rantings and allegations against AVFM. The only problem is that all it confirmed is that you are currently fucking delusional and Paul Elam the one man who even YOU acknowledged helped you in your hour of need not that long beforehand still extended to you a patience and forbearance towards your delusional rantings that I'm sure any reasonable person would deem unwarranted.
Talk about biting the fucking hand that fed you!
There perhaps you will understand me now!
Lets not forget your the fucking turncoat

Ya,turncoat,sure whatever you say...... and Elam isn't?

He was once a member of MRO and even thanked Chris Key for allowing him to be on that site as he was thankfull he found it.

Then turned around and attacked Chris in an attempt to look like some sort of fucking hero over something that Chris could have been swayed into another direction on.

He didn't reach out to Chris and/or explain the situation,Elam attacked like a fucking bully,resulting in Chris's ocd kicking in and shutting down the site. Ya a real fuckin' man he is.

Never mind Elams underhanded tactic's at poaching the top mra's from across the mrm,including Erin Pizzey.

First off I have no idea what "MRO" is although the name Chris Key does ring a bell.
Paul is a Texan and it shows for sure - he doesn't take prisoners but then neither does Factory and here I think is a clue to the "nub of the rub" as it were ie it's a clash of ego's.
I have spoken up for AVFM here and elsewhere - that said I'm not naive enough to believe that it is without faults or beyond criticism. Then again show me a website and group of similar size that is.
What concerns me is that mens issues get to be put across fairly in the wider public arena and as we all know there is considerable resistance to that happening from a highly feminised establishment. Recently Angry Harry wrote an article (not long after his clash with Paul @ AVFM) saying essentially that it is not such a big deal that the MRM is undergoing some fragmentation because by and large although they may be coming from differing perspectives they are all working towards the same goals (more or less).
In other words don't throw out the baby with the fucking bath water! If you don't like an MRM website because you don't happen to like the guy or how he runs the site fine - don't go there. It doesn't give you the right to try and undo the good and effective work that site is doing or has done yet this is the arrogance of Factory even though Factory himself personally thanked Paul for his outreach at a time he was going through a bad patch. (nothing wrong with that as I've had depressive episodes on and off all my life - one of millions no doubt)
Oh yeah what's all this shit about "poaching" - this isn't a competition as far as I'm concerned and many who write @ AVFM also write eleswhere and are free to do so Erin Pizzey included who by the way very much knows her own mind and CHOSE to ally herself with AVFM  because in her own words "she feels at home" there. If I focussed my attention on the personalities of the activists there I'm sure I could find plenty to rant about and I know the same would be true for others about me but what the fuck are we here for popularity contests or something else alltogether???

[Factory]

Jesus, look at you freak out about one singular MRA you hadn't even really heard of getting all mad and offering to strategize with those who want to take down that site?  I mean, I haven't done much, obviously, or I'd be a 'Big Guy' there, now wouldn't I?  So...what's so freaky about a nobody MRA deciding to aid and abet someone else for a change?  How much harm can it cause, ya know?

Of course, if you entertain the thought that I might know enough about the workings and strategies of the MRM to be dangerous, you have to assign greater signifigance than the average commenter now wouldn't you?  Which means I might have some idea what I'm talking about, and might even have legit concerns.  But funny how that never seems to come up.  And it's funny how Paul is leaving a veritable string of MRAs in his wake who were once 'Uncle Bern' and 'The Father of the MRM', but are now 'extremists'.....and you have a problem with wanting to take that shit down?

Why?  Does the ends justify the means to you? 

Anyway, I think you are assigning this way more import in my life than I am.  AVfM is doomed to repeat the same mistakes Feminism made, and more over is blithely following along in Feminism's footsteps right now.  The proof is in the loss of many of the minds the MRM was built with.  The reward for this trade is a group of PC indoctrinated political amateurs strategizing based on fear, when capable of doing so at all.  The bulk of which display next to no understanding of concepts, but, like Feminists, are great at spouting talking points and repeating Dogma.

I get that you want me to not attack that.  Tough shit, if I feel like it I'm gonna.  And if my attacks on it, should they happen, gain traction with people, then it's AVfM's fault for having that weakness in the first damn place.  And if the 'baby' in the bathwater is a diseased cancerous abomination, I will for sure throw it out with the bathwater...gladly...every time.  Stop looking so shocked someone might oppose your agenda actively instead of playing nice.  I've spent 20 years learning how likely playing nice is to work.

[Tigerman]

Factory I don't care what you do anymore.
I'm done with you.

[Factory]

Factory I don't care what you do anymore.
I'm done with you.

I'm crushed.

[outdoors]

Factory I don't care what you do anymore.
I'm done with you.

Geez....another Elam in the making?


I just want to point out something that fidelbogen said in a reply to one of woolybumblehead's vid's. I find it quite amusing when compared to avfm;

The other possibility is that "patriarchy" is a group of elite males who are less concerned about dominating women per se, than dominating everybody in general -- which includes other men first and foremost.


And so they have delegated a LOT of power to women in order to enforce *elite male* dominance over lower-ranking males.


In other words, women have been recruited as *enforcers* for the "patriarchy*.


"Feminism" is the scam by which they (the "patriarchy") made this happen.

Kinda fitting when compared to Elam and his crew....no?


Don't worry,don't worry,people,it is more than clear that if someone isn't on Elam's boat,they are not welcome in the mrm.

As woolybumblehead has stated if you don't like "her" rules then we can all "fuck right off from the mrm".(her exact word's)

I will be backing off as it seems little guys like myself and even bigger guys such as factory are not needed in the mrm.

AVFM has it all covered,and the girl's will make sure of it.

Tigerman as long as you are a usefull little sychophant,you will be more than welcome by Elam and his crew,please let us know what happens when you actually start to think for yourself.

[dr e]

Very interesting idea that "patriarchy" is using women to control men.  LOL  In a way I think that is spot on.

[Tigerman]

Factory I don't care what you do anymore.
I'm done with you.

Geez....another Elam in the making?


I just want to point out something that fidelbogen said in a reply to one of woolybumblehead's vid's. I find it quite amusing when compared to avfm;

The other possibility is that "patriarchy" is a group of elite males who are less concerned about dominating women per se, than dominating everybody in general -- which includes other men first and foremost.


And so they have delegated a LOT of power to women in order to enforce *elite male* dominance over lower-ranking males.


In other words, women have been recruited as *enforcers* for the "patriarchy*.


"Feminism" is the scam by which they (the "patriarchy") made this happen.

Kinda fitting when compared to Elam and his crew....no?


Don't worry,don't worry,people,it is more than clear that if someone isn't on Elam's boat,they are not welcome in the mrm.

As woolybumblehead has stated if you don't like "her" rules then we can all "fuck right off from the mrm".(her exact word's)

I will be backing off as it seems little guys like myself and even bigger guys such as factory are not needed in the mrm.

AVFM has it all covered,and the girl's will make sure of it.

Tigerman as long as you are a usefull little sychophant,you will be more than welcome by Elam and his crew,please let us know what happens when you actually start to think for yourself.

You are such a little hypocrite - let me remind you of something:-
YOUR comment in the thread  "Great Video Portrait: A Canadian Feminist Protesting MRA's "
outdoors
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2013, 08:38:13 AM »    Reply with quote

Thats DannyboyCanadianmra.

He deserves a medal for activism.
=====================
Another quote from YOU in the same thread:
Good vid!

At least they got an interview,hopefull it is not edited to suit an agenda.Hopefully it makes it to an airing.

I attempted to get the Sun News involved,usually thet are not fearful of these issue's,I have not heard or seen anything yet though.

As far as the supposed poster's the interviewer was talking about,this could be a well used feminist tactic from my area,where the poster's are put up by the feminist''s themselves in order to villify people who don't follow their agenda or to just plainly villify and discredit.

To bad these guys didn't have a chance to mention much about the corrupt Canadian feminist run family court system and the automatic confiscation of children from the father's,or the costs of good father's just to see their kid's,financial,emotional and otherwise.[/quote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The activists and their work YOU were praising in the videos are both from A Voice For Men and in fact are on the AVFM editorial board:-
DannyBoy aka Dan Perrins Ontario News Director @ AVFM
John The Other aka John Hembling. Editor-in-Chief @ AVFM
AVFM contrary to the lies and distortions that you factory and several other so called MRA's have been putting about AVFM is actually doing something about "Political Correctness" - it is fighting it right in it's own backyard!
So you can shove your petty insults where the sun don't shine!

[Tigerman]

Very interesting idea that "patriarchy" is using women to control men.  LOL  In a way I think that is spot on.

I agree and it is one of the reasons why I got disenchanted with traditionalist right (don't worry I'm equally disenchanted with traditionalists within the left too like err Joe Biden for example!) as they support a notion of generalised "chivalry" that ius practically as toxic as the radical\gender feminists genderising of violence.
The same is true in my country (UK) when the left wing New Labour was our ruling party in gov. we weren't too shocked to see feminist policies and laws being passed but this former Conservative voter was shocked when a Conservative Prime minister rubber stamped and got passed some of said feminist polices from the previous admin. on top of that David Cameron used Fathers Day to deliver a blistering attack on fatherhood .
That was the last straw for me because after enduring 13 years of anti-family pro-feminist government from left leaning New Labour I was in no frame of mind to tolerate the same from a so called Conservative led government. Of course this in reality has little to do with the left or right and everything to do with the ruling elites modus operandi for keeping the rest of us in check.
In the past it was religion today it is leveraging gender feminism to keep men down and from asking too many of the "wrong" questions.
From now on I will either spoil my ballots or give my vote to the most despised (by the mainstream politicos) option there is.

[dr e]

Factory I don't care what you do anymore.
I'm done with you.

Geez....another Elam in the making?


I just want to point out something that fidelbogen said in a reply to one of woolybumblehead's vid's. I find it quite amusing when compared to avfm;

The other possibility is that "patriarchy" is a group of elite males who are less concerned about dominating women per se, than dominating everybody in general -- which includes other men first and foremost.


And so they have delegated a LOT of power to women in order to enforce *elite male* dominance over lower-ranking males.


In other words, women have been recruited as *enforcers* for the "patriarchy*.


"Feminism" is the scam by which they (the "patriarchy") made this happen.

Kinda fitting when compared to Elam and his crew....no?


Don't worry,don't worry,people,it is more than clear that if someone isn't on Elam's boat,they are not welcome in the mrm.

As woolybumblehead has stated if you don't like "her" rules then we can all "fuck right off from the mrm".(her exact word's)

I will be backing off as it seems little guys like myself and even bigger guys such as factory are not needed in the mrm.

AVFM has it all covered,and the girl's will make sure of it.

Tigerman as long as you are a usefull little sychophant,you will be more than welcome by Elam and his crew,please let us know what happens when you actually start to think for yourself.

You are such a little hypocrite - let me remind you of something:-
YOUR comment in the thread  "Great Video Portrait: A Canadian Feminist Protesting MRA's "
outdoors
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2013, 08:38:13 AM »    Reply with quote

Thats DannyboyCanadianmra.

He deserves a medal for activism.
=====================
Another quote from YOU in the same thread:
Good vid!

At least they got an interview,hopefull it is not edited to suit an agenda.Hopefully it makes it to an airing.

I attempted to get the Sun News involved,usually thet are not fearful of these issue's,I have not heard or seen anything yet though.

As far as the supposed poster's the interviewer was talking about,this could be a well used feminist tactic from my area,where the poster's are put up by the feminist''s themselves in order to villify people who don't follow their agenda or to just plainly villify and discredit.

To bad these guys didn't have a chance to mention much about the corrupt Canadian feminist run family court system and the automatic confiscation of children from the father's,or the costs of good father's just to see their kid's,financial,emotional and otherwise.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The activists and their work YOU were praising in the videos are both from A Voice For Men and in fact are on the AVFM editorial board:-
DannyBoy aka Dan Perrins Ontario News Director @ AVFM
John The Other aka John Hembling. Editor-in-Chief @ AVFM
AVFM contrary to the lies and distortions that you factory and several other so called MRA's have been putting about AVFM is actually doing something about "Political Correctness" - it is fighting it right in it's own backyard!
So you can shove your petty insults where the sun don't shine!
[/quote]

What the hell man?  Can't the guy like a video and praise some MRA's without getting called a hypocrite?  I mean really, let it go.

[Tigerman]

What the hell man?  Can't the guy like a video and praise some MRA's without getting called a hypocrite?  I mean really, let it go.

The guy spews out groundless accusations and bile against AVFM and people like me who tried to set the record straight and I am the bad guy here for exposing his inconsistency?(I'm being kinbd here!).
When so called MRA's do their best to create fault lines and divisions where none need exist - we should turn the other cheek and treat them with kid gloves?
I am man enough to apologize for my mistakes when I get it wrong and I think outdoors should do the same.

[dr e]

What the hell man?  Can't the guy like a video and praise some MRA's without getting called a hypocrite?  I mean really, let it go.

The guy spews out groundless accusations and bile against AVFM and people like me who tried to set the record straight and I am the bad guy here for exposing his inconsistency?(I'm being kinbd here!).
When so called MRA's do their best to create fault lines and divisions where none need exist - we should turn the other cheek and treat them with kid gloves?
I am man enough to apologize for my mistakes when I get it wrong and I think outdoors should do the same.

And if he was again saying negative things about AVFM or its members I could understand your frustration but when he praises some folks who happen to be from there maybe its tie for you to let it go.  Same team right? 

[Tigerman]

What the hell man?  Can't the guy like a video and praise some MRA's without getting called a hypocrite?  I mean really, let it go.

The guy spews out groundless accusations and bile against AVFM and people like me who tried to set the record straight and I am the bad guy here for exposing his inconsistency?(I'm being kinbd here!).
When so called MRA's do their best to create fault lines and divisions where none need exist - we should turn the other cheek and treat them with kid gloves?
I am man enough to apologize for my mistakes when I get it wrong and I think outdoors should do the same.

And if he was again saying negative things about AVFM or its members I could understand your frustration but when he praises some folks who happen to be from there maybe its tie for you to let it go.  Same team right? 

Well he owes me and AVFM generally an apology - so does Factory for that matter though I doubt either of them are big enough to apologise - too much ego. I will say no more but unless I receive a fullsome apology I won't forget what was said or forgive either.

[Factory]

I owe you and Paul Elam precisely Jack Shit.  That bastard used a ton of MRAs to get where he is, then tossed them under the bus for not adopting his brand of political correctness.  And people like you, the sycophantic kool aid drinkers, are even less worthy than he is.

Yes, AVfM is accomplishing good things.  And even (gasp) some of the people associated are doing good things.

It doesn't detract, even a little tiny bit, from the moral decrprepitude, the betrayal of trust, and the rank hypocrisy he is building his house of cards on.  You and people like you keep bringing up that 'fact' that Paul 'helped me'.

What you never acknowledge, is that the fucker literally posted my suicide note, complete with my full name, AND CITY OF RESIDENCE, on the fucking internet.  Not only that, he had people propagate that information.  It STILL comes up in job interviews today, and has kept me unemployed for nearly a year.

Yeah, I played along...because what the fuck else am i going to do?  Pound yourself on the back for your 'enlightened attitude' some fucking more, ya prick.  Anything to keep from thinking about what you're actually doing....right?

Apologize?  If anyone owes anyone an apology, it sure as FUCK isn't going to be coming from me, and going to shithead users like you.  Go build your ego on someone else's suffering, ya rancid cunt.

[Iron John]

Then I owe you an apology, Factory.  The night you were threatening to kill yourself I re-posted the same information on the Niceguys/ Mancoat forum.  It was the only thing I could think of that would help.  I knew that there were a number of people from your country on that forum, and I thought that they might be able to get to you before you had the chance to harm yourself.  I didn't think that it would ever harm your employment opportunities, I was just trying to get someone to help you before you ended your life.

If you would like, I will look into removing the thread?

[Factory]

Then I owe you an apology, Factory.  The night you were threatening to kill yourself I re-posted the same information on the Niceguys/ Mancoat forum.  It was the only thing I could think of that would help.  I knew that there were a number of people from your country on that forum, and I thought that they might be able to get to you before you had the chance to harm yourself.  I didn't think that it would ever harm your employment opportunities, I was just trying to get someone to help you before you ended your life.

If you would like, I will look into removing the thread?

It was the heartfelt concern that people showed that stopped me from publicly getting pissed off.  This is the first time, if I recall correctly, that I have ever said this in any form, to anyone publicly.  But I have most definitely been made a 'martyr' to some degree, and I'm getting kinda tired of it.  As for removal, the damage is quite done.  One of my friends told me he did some Google-Fu, and it was referenced over 15 thousand times.  The Truth is Out There.

As for the concern, it was likely misplaced, as I had been arrested by the cops within 10 minutes of sending Paul the original email.  But I appreciated it, so I didn't complain about the bad side of things.  Not even when I was booted from my home.  Or when I was forced out of my job.

But to then have these same guys tell me that my 'unpopular' ideas were ban worthy, or 'extremist'...well, fuck 'em, is what I say.

As for Tigerman...well, his ilk have been throwing that in my face for months now, as if I owed Paul my life or something.  As if I owe them, by extension, because they were concerned.  To use the crap I've been going through in order to manipulate me?  That's fucking low, about as shitty of a person as you can be, is what it takes to do that sort of shit.

And the fact this asstard is one of the guys setting the tone at AVfM these days, him and Wooly "Libertarians are not welcome in the Mens Movment" Bumblebee, is all I need to know about where it's headed.