Did anyone see 60 minutes last night?

Started by nebulousone, Apr 29, 2004, 10:07 AM

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nebulousone

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml


Quote
Last month, the U.S. Army announced 17 soldiers in Iraq, including a brigadier general, had been removed from duty after charges of mistreating Iraqi prisoners.

But the details of what happened have been kept secret, until now.

It turns out photographs surfaced showing American soldiers abusing and humiliating Iraqis being held at a prison near Baghdad. The Army investigated, and issued a scathing report.

Now, an Army general and her command staff may face the end of long military careers. And six soldiers are facing court martial in Iraq -- and possible prison time.



There's so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.   :(
i]Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.[/i]
~Abraham Lincoln

Sir Jessy of Anti

This is very bad news.
:(
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

nebulousone

Obviously, that this is happening at all is upsetting.  

That any news outlet would choose to air this, during this time, is also upsetting.  The DOD was already handling it - much of the report was information from the Army's own investigation.

That there were so many women involved is also upsetting:  

Their commander was a woman.  

There were several pictures of female soldiers posing in front of the posed prisoners, giving a thumbs up.  

The Army's investigation indicated reports that one of the translators - hired by our govt - had raped one of the "juvenile" male prisoners, while a female soldier (allegedly) took photos of the entire assault.

That dogs were sicced on the prisoners (a la Saddam) is upsetting.

All of this breaks simultaneously breaks my heart and enrages me beyond belief.
i]Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.[/i]
~Abraham Lincoln

Sir Jessy of Anti

What is really interesting is that this is proof against the feminist mantra that more women in positions of authority in the millitary would result in less scandals (think Tailhook - that was the feminist position).
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

Bender

I pray that the Lord returns soon.
color=red] You have no Constitutional right not to be offended and I'm here to make sure this non-existent Constitutional right is honored.
[/color]



<<<---Ya know ya want one.

Stallywood

Quote from: "nebulousone"
Obviously, that this is happening at all is upsetting.  
That there were so many women involved is also upsetting:  

Their commander was a woman.  
quote]


Meaning? would you be less upset if women werent invovled? If it was just men?
Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

Bilbo

Quote from: "nebulousone"
That any news outlet would choose to air this, during this time, is also upsetting.  The DOD was already handling it - much of the report was information from the Army's own investigation.


I was thinking the same thing.  It is tragic that it happened, at least to the degree that it did, but this is just not the time to air it around the world.  It's not like we have a whole lot of political capital to expend as it is, and we do come off as being no better than the guy we took out of there.  While I agree that it is a different culture and the resolve of these fundamentalists would require severe measures to extract information, I guess I was surprised that these were, in fact, those measures.  :shock:


Quote
The Army's investigation indicated reports that one of the translators - hired by our govt - had raped one of the "juvenile" male prisoners, while a female soldier (allegedly) took photos of the entire assault.


:vomit:
Hadn't heard that one.
It is impossible to reason a man out of something he was never reasoned into in the first place- Swift

"The cardinal principle of judicial restraint--if it is not necessary to decide more, it is necessary not to decide more."

nebulousone

Quote
Meaning? would you be less upset if women werent invovled? If it was just men?
Stally


No, I meant what I said.  As far as I can see, I didn't indicate that I would be less upset if it were just men.  

Last I checked, all of the victims were male.  They are the ones for whom I feel the most.



ETA: some of the tags are messed up, sorry for all the edits.
i]Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.[/i]
~Abraham Lincoln

Sir Jessy of Anti

I heard on the news tonight here in RI that one of the guards had sex with a female inmate.  There was no mention however of the male rape and the female who allegedly took pictures.   The did mention that one inmate was allegedly raped with a glow stick and perhaps a broom as well.
Oh, but they did say some inmates were threatened with rape.
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand<br /><br />

Type 5

Quote from: "nebulousone"
Quote
Meaning? would you be less upset if women werent invovled? If it was just men?
Stally


No, I meant what I said.  As far as I can see, I didn't indicate that I would be less upset if it were just men.


No, you didn't. However, it seems to me that you were unclear:

Quote from: "nebulousone"
That there were so many women involved is also upsetting...


What, specifically, do you find upsetting about the fact that a significant number of women were involved? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bilbo

Quote from: "nebulousone"
Last I checked, all of the victims were male.  They are the ones for whom I feel the most.


Actually, the ones for whom I feel most are the U.S. troops on the ground over there who will, no doubt, come under increased fire as the insurgents retaliate for these actions.
It is impossible to reason a man out of something he was never reasoned into in the first place- Swift

"The cardinal principle of judicial restraint--if it is not necessary to decide more, it is necessary not to decide more."

AlexanderGoMavs

Quote from: "Bilbo"
Quote from: "nebulousone"
Last I checked, all of the victims were male.  They are the ones for whom I feel the most.


Actually, the ones for whom I feel most are the U.S. troops on the ground over there who will, no doubt, come under increased fire as the insurgents retaliate for these actions.


Apparently the responsible troops weren't thinking about the potential flak that could result from their stupid acts.  I am surprised that proper treatment of the prisoners wasn't covered before the troops went over to Iraq.  I agree with you that it is hard enough for our troops there as it is, why make things worse with this?  And why air this story?  As concerned as most of the media has been about the number of troops dying there since the hostilities began, didn't 60MII realize that, by airing this story, they are only endangering the very troops that they profess to be concerned about?  And they say that Bush acts before he thinks.
A fiend in need is a fiend indeed" - Boris Badenov.

Daymar

The officer in charge was obviously too lazy or incompetent to lay out proper guidelines and should be forced to retire at least. That's a role that officers do, not enlisted.

Really this would be handled by a captain that would be the CO who would have an XO as a Lt. probobly. Then there would be another officer or two above them unless they reported straight to that Brig General because of what type of unit it is. Really all of the officers in that chain of command should be charged or forced to retire. It's their responsibility to review everything that is going on under them. The Brig General at the top wouldn't write the guidelines or participate in the enforcement of them but she would make sure stuff like that was in place when she reviewed the units operation. Basically everyone involved in that sounds like they're trash for one reason or another.

I can't understand the thinking of the enlisted soldiers involved but I've never been involved in a situation like that either.

Asian Lover

Am I  the only one who sees the real reason for muslim rage over this abuse of the Iraqi detainees?   This "clash of civilization," which may go on for decades, is for the same reason:   our relationships with women versus theirs.   We all know how women are treated under Islam.  Whether its better or worse is debatable.  What's NOT debatable is to subject a muslim man to  humiliation by women, as the photos seem to do, for all the world to see.

For the young muslim males who have seen these pictures, any chance of compromise or negotiation or laying down their arms is gone, forever.   How many more people, including our GIs, will die now that this is truly a fight to the death for muslims?

I hope the troops involved get punished, but something tells me that their commanding officer,  Brigadier ("It wasn't MY fault") General Janis Karpinski will skate through it all, somehow.
 toast by expats in Asia:  "Here's to white women."   Followed by guffaws and another round of drinks.

Stallywood

>>>>That there were so many women involved is also upsetting:<<<




Still I want to know why it is so upsetting since so many women were involved.
Stally
Gentleman is a man who consciously serves women. I prefer the golden rule.

Behind every great man, is a
parasite.

Women who say men won't commit, usually aren't worth committing to.

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