You may have noticed that the women participants in this discussion (and in almost every discussion of sexual issues) tend to be concerned with avoiding unwanted sexual advances from men and seem to be intimidated by them, while the men tend to be concerned with gaining opportunity to make sexual advances.
Again, why would a woman want to remain vulnerable to emotional damage and intimidated by man's sexual advances when she dosen't have to be?
You are saying we should just give it up willingly and not bother to call it rape. Seems a somewhat simplistic point of view! Disease, pregnancy, being married, being in love with someone else, being grossed out by the rapist, not wanting to be controlled, those all come quickly to mind as reasons not to accept rape.
The reason we feel intimidated is that we may lose. Nothing good about getting taken advantage of in such significant ways.
Phebe, you seem to be the only participant in this discussion standing for a contrary point of view and I admire your courage in doing so. Your participation prevents this discussion from degenerating into an amen choir. I also appreciate that the board administrators have allowed this debate.
What I am saying is that I, as a man, have not been socially constructed to experiencee it as "rape' if a woman were to force herself on me sexually. I would be more likely to enjoy the experience. In the actual case where the woman attempted to rape me I merely experienced amusement. Curcumstances prevented me from enjoying it as a sexual experience.
But, I absolutely never experienced a sence of being, "...Out of control, threatened, contaminated with disease and impregnation, degraded, humiliated, injured, terrified, betrayed, unable to trust the world or life or (wo)men, powerless...."
I do not bear the burden of those feelings. I have not been socially constructed to do so.
Nor do I bear the burden of the issue women have with 'control of their bodies' where sexuality is concerned...
...Control over her own body. That's what we're discussing, right? Whether men have a right to use women's bodies for their own pleasure whether we like it or not. If she hints, looks worried, tries to get up, says no but is ignored, etc., etc. it may be "overpersuasion" rather than rape, but she has still lost control of what happens: THAT is why she's mad, of course!...
You could use my body all night if you wanted and the issue of whether or not I had "lost control over my body" would be irrelevant to me.
Those feelings are alien to me in connection with the prospect of a woman raping me because I have not been socially constructed to experience them.
An unspoken assumption of Feminist social construction theory is that since gender characteristics are socially constructed they can therefore be socially re-constructed in whatever way we deem appropriate. I was curious as to why women would not want to relieve themselves of the burden of feeling...
...Out of control, threatened, contaminated with disease and impregnation, degraded, humiliated, injured, terrified, betrayed, unable to trust the world or life or men, powerless....
...by applying the simple expedience of social re-construction. It worked for me.
I am not saying that you should 'not bother to CALL it rape'; I am saying that you need not EXPERIENCE it as rape. I am not saying that you SHOULD do this, that is your decision. I was wondering why you would not choose to; maybe you just never thought of it.
I had the same experience you did, and threw him off and left. So I won and he lost and I felt good ever since about that. As you did! But you were bigger; I was lucky. It was probably easier for you and chancier for me, so of course women feel anxious. (Though talk about a clear no --- there was no way that guy was getting anything but major, major trouble and injury and loud shrieks in the dorm and trips to the police station if he hadn’t given up when I threw him off. What a total idiot! He just plain wasn’t going to take anything I didn’t want to give. I’d have died first.)
Actually, your did not have the same experience as I. There were similar events but you experienced them in an entirely different way.
A man is someone who has the capability to rape; everyone else is a woman.
A very unpleasant...
...but true...
...slogan. But at least you aren't one of these men who somehow think women can rape. This always seemed ridiculous to me.
You are correct. Adult women do not rape adult men. The statement is not only true, it is a defining characteristic that distinguishes men from women. You could use that statement to explain to an alien how to tell the difference between a man and a woman.
